bralkan Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Well, I have been out of town and I let a bud borrow the bike. He had a few rides while I was gone but then it stopped starting. Maybe 1 of a 100 kicks gets a few combustions. I did pop the clutch down my short but steep driveway and had it on for a second. I am moving and so I had to just put it on the truck for later. Historically, I have had the clutch "slip" into neutral while up shifting (no indicator). Letting go of the clutch and shifting again would put it in the right gear. Messing with it for a few minutes, adjusting the tension on the clutch cable did get differing feed back on the kickstart (my electric motor is still broken, if it would matter). So any ideas before I take it to a shop? I am traveling M-F now so it makes it hard to tinker. Thanks, as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalyamaha Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 you've checked the list right? fuel spark connections compression blocks in lines battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralkan Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 you've checked the list right? fuel spark connections compression blocks in lines battery Well, third kick off the truck and I got a few ignitions. It has gas, and it is flowing through the filter. I need to check the plugs once I find what box my tools are in. It still wouldn't start, though. The dummy lights look good, but if I can find my trickle charger I will charge the battery. Let you know how it goes. It kicks and just feels like its "pumping" but there is no spark, and then the next kick it sounds like it trys. So battery and/plugs plugs it may be. Just hoping it isn't something with the clutch or kickstart mechanism. I know more and am more comfortable with the electrical system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalyamaha Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 clutch shouldn't affect the starting. as long as the kicker kicks it over you should be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralkan Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 clutch shouldn't affect the starting. as long as the kicker kicks it over you should be good. Well, it wasn't the plugs. That leaves fuel system I guess. It may be flooding?? Carb or petcock problem I guess. May end up taking it to a shop for lack of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted June 10, 2008 Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2008 Well, it wasn't the plugs. That leaves fuel system I guess. It may be flooding?? Carb or petcock problem I guess. May end up taking it to a shop for lack of time. the thing with a kick start is that is only turns the engine over 1/2 at a time whereas the electric boot can keep the motor spinning. could try bump starting to get the engine turning! clutch slip will affect the engine starting, as that is the only thing that connects to the gearbox and hence the kick start. electric start is direct on the crank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralkan Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 the thing with a kick start is that is only turns the engine over 1/2 at a time whereas the electric boot can keep the motor spinning. could try bump starting to get the engine turning! clutch slip will affect the engine starting, as that is the only thing that connects to the gearbox and hence the kick start. electric start is direct on the crank. hmmm.... maybe its time to buy that started off ebay. the one time I had a good bump it did start for a second...so, I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginger0195 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 the thing with a kick start is that is only turns the engine over 1/2 at a time whereas the electric boot can keep the motor spinning. could try bump starting to get the engine turning! clutch slip will affect the engine starting, as that is the only thing that connects to the gearbox and hence the kick start. electric start is direct on the crank. i disagree, with some models the kick start gear meshs with the clutch basket which meshes in turn with the crank, so it may or may not be the fault of the clutch Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78special Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 i disagree, with some models the kick start gear meshs with the clutch basket which meshes in turn with the crank, so it may or may not be the fault of the clutch Adam What you can do is take the cover off the side where the cabe goes in. You will see the chain going around the gear that is on the shaft. That gear may have moved over just a little which wont allow the bike to kick. Well it will kick but not start. I had this happen to mine and it took me forever to find out what was wrong. Until I took the 6 allen bolts out and pulled the cover off The chain was on the gear but it had moved over just about an half an inch not allowing it to turn the bike over. Very easy take maybe 10 min. You will have to take the shifter off though in order to pull the cover off. That gear has slots that sync it on the shaft. I hope you understand this and it help fixed my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralkan Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 What you can do is take the cover off the side where the cabe goes in. You will see the chain going around the gear that is on the shaft. That gear may have moved over just a little which wont allow the bike to kick. Well it will kick but not start. I had this happen to mine and it took me forever to find out what was wrong. Until I took the 6 allen bolts out and pulled the cover off The chain was on the gear but it had moved over just about an half an inch not allowing it to turn the bike over. Very easy take maybe 10 min. You will have to take the shifter off though in order to pull the cover off. That gear has slots that sync it on the shaft. I hope you understand this and it help fixed my problem. the little worm gear? I have been thinking about checking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78special Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 the little worm gear? I have been thinking about checking it. Yeah if you take the cover off just kinda let it hang there you will see the gear or sprocket that the chain goes around that gear or sprocket is on a shaft that has like 4 teeth that line up with the grooves in the gears so that they mesh or synn together if that gear is not pushed all the way against the back of the shaft it will kick all day long but not start. I hope this helps and fixes your problem it was so simple when I figured it out. after you put the cover back on though you should pull the clutch a few times so that is working right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtonyx Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 If it won't crank, even bumping it while rolling down a hill, it's something other than the clutch or kicker. Check the timing, check that your carbs are in spec, check your points (if you have them), check if you have full charge, Did you disconnect your coils? It's possible accidently swap them. The little orange/white wires can be a little hard to tell apart when they are faded and dirty like mine were. It will cause a weird backfire situation after several kicks that makes you think it's starting, but will never run. I kick start my bike first kick almost every time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralkan Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 If it won't crank, even bumping it while rolling down a hill, it's something other than the clutch or kicker. Check the timing, check that your carbs are in spec, check your points (if you have them), check if you have full charge, Did you disconnect your coils? It's possible accidently swap them. The little orange/white wires can be a little hard to tell apart when they are faded and dirty like mine were. It will cause a weird backfire situation after several kicks that makes you think it's starting, but will never run. I kick start my bike first kick almost every time now. Well the only time I have been able to dick around with it, I was able to bump it once. Now the battery is dead from leaving it on while messing around (of course, just moved and can not find my charger. bleh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechieTopher Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Yeah if you take the cover off just kinda let it hang there you will see the gear or sprocket that the chain goes around that gear or sprocket is on a shaft that has like 4 teeth that line up with the grooves in the gears so that they mesh or synn together if that gear is not pushed all the way against the back of the shaft it will kick all day long but not start. I hope this helps and fixes your problem it was so simple when I figured it out. after you put the cover back on though you should pull the clutch a few times so that is working right. Are you talking about the cover that the clutch cable goes into? The front sprocket engages another gear that the kickstart is connected to? I just changed out my clutch cable and now I've got nothing in the way of kick. There's no pressure there and it was fine before. Sorry for hijacking this post but I think I've got the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralkan Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share Posted July 2, 2008 Are you talking about the cover that the clutch cable goes into? The front sprocket engages another gear that the kickstart is connected to? I just changed out my clutch cable and now I've got nothing in the way of kick. There's no pressure there and it was fine before. Sorry for hijacking this post but I think I've got the same problem. I havn't gotten anywhere on my bike yet. I havn't had time to look at it. Make sure the worm gear (that the clutch cable hooks into) is in the right position. If your kick lever just moves freely you probably have to much pressure on that pushrod the wormgear sits on. Try moving the gear to a different position or loosening your clutch cable (to diagnose). I do have a bit more information - 1st kick and I get no feedback from the engine (no sound of pistons moving). The 2nd kick I hear the pistons move with the 'putt putts' of air moving through the muffler. The third kick gives me no feedback. Fourth kick gives me feedback, and so on. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhendryx Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I havn't gotten anywhere on my bike yet. I havn't had time to look at it. Make sure the worm gear (that the clutch cable hooks into) is in the right position. If your kick lever just moves freely you probably have to much pressure on that pushrod the wormgear sits on. Try moving the gear to a different position or loosening your clutch cable (to diagnose). I do have a bit more information - 1st kick and I get no feedback from the engine (no sound of pistons moving). The 2nd kick I hear the pistons move with the 'putt putts' of air moving through the muffler. The third kick gives me no feedback. Fourth kick gives me feedback, and so on. ?? um... based on what someone above said about the kick only cranking a half rotation, that sounds like the kick lever isnt actually turning the engine over on one of the cylinders.... that doesnt make much sense now that ive written it out, but it did when i thought it. could it be something actually in the gear meshing that is screwy? i looked at my manuals for my xs500, and could the kickstart gear pinion not be engaging the gear threads on the shaft itself? since half the time it works, half it doesnt, could half of it just be damaged? that probably doesnt help with why it wont start, but it might help with the no feed back thing... or it just made it worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted July 2, 2008 Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2008 um... based on what someone above said about the kick only cranking a half rotation, that sounds like the kick lever isnt actually turning the engine over on one of the cylinders.... that doesnt make much sense now that ive written it out, but it did when i thought it. could it be something actually in the gear meshing that is screwy? i looked at my manuals for my xs500, and could the kickstart gear pinion not be engaging the gear threads on the shaft itself? since half the time it works, half it doesnt, could half of it just be damaged? that probably doesnt help with why it wont start, but it might help with the no feed back thing... or it just made it worse... i have seen a support post snapped off a 250 model which woud render the kick inoperative. but you would need to jump on it to do that much damage!! will the pistons move if you bump it? try without the sparkies in just to check. that will eliminate the clutch once and for all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralkan Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 i have seen a support post snapped off a 250 model which woud render the kick inoperative. but you would need to jump on it to do that much damage!! will the pistons move if you bump it? try without the sparkies in just to check. that will eliminate the clutch once and for all!! I haven't bumped it recently, but it did start once (for about 3-5 seconds) right before I transported it (and the kick start was not working as is now). My friend was borrowing it and he said he just went on a ride and parked it. The next day the kickstart wouldn't work. I don't think he'd lie but then again, he is a newbie (even more than myself). He did manage to drop his 750 twice going over a curb (pulling in and out!). Silly guy - he's about 5'3" so the bike is waaay bigger than he is....but I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechieTopher Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 My problem has been resolved. It was a combination of my new clutch cable not being adjusted correctly and the worm gear engaging the rod slightly as a result. That's why I had no compression when I kicked her. After setting this correctly. Everything is working now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted July 3, 2008 Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2008 My problem has been resolved. It was a combination of my new clutch cable not being adjusted correctly and the worm gear engaging the rod slightly as a result. That's why I had no compression when I kicked her. After setting this correctly. Everything is working now woohooo at last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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