These bike laws make no god damn sense. I just want my A1!!

[Variomatic]

Right, I'm on L plates, I HATE them, people see them as big signs that say "I'm a virgin with no life, run me off the road at every chance".

I did a (naughty) experiment when they "accidently" fell off, and found people are much more respectfull and reasonable when they don't see a big loser plate hanging off me like a tumor on my machine. People pulled out on me less, gave me more room and actually treated me with respect instead of randomply shouting at me for going too slowly up a 22% gradient with a hole 7.2 cubic inches of wet fart pushing me allong, and most importantly, they tail gaited me less

Why, why was this? It wasn't a 1 day thing, on the 4 times they have "accidently" fallen off I've found this to be true, it's as if people hate us.

/rant

Anyway, I want yto do me A1, may be pointless right now since I can't get a bigger bike, but I've been riding 8 months and feel very confident in my ability to be able to pass the test first time (but I'll take the one with 3 days intensive training just to be sure, the extra £60 is worth it). Also, I have my dignity, and that plate mines at it.

So, I go to the GOV site to find out, and as usual there site is about as useful as a chocolate piston, information seems contradictory to itself and is scattered around in random places, none of it seems to relate to anything and often contradicts other rules. It doen't make any sense, then again nor does the current test scheme. (Seriously, I have to wait till 21 for a big bike, but someone who is fresh off there car test can hop in a 5.8L dual super charged mustang....ok govenment, well done)

So I just want to ask, what are the CURRENT test laws? (however ridiculous they are this year) I just want to know where I stand on this up hill struggle to get a bike with more power than the average fart.

(yes that was very rantly)

[captf]

Why, why was this? It wasn't a 1 day thing, on the 4 times they have "accidently" fallen off I've found this to be true, it's as if people hate us.

Assholes. Assholes everywhere.

Some people just like antagonising learners. And given that these types often dislike bikers [because we're better than them (: ], they do it worse. The Housemate has had someone try and literally push her bike [with their car] into oncoming traffic...

So I just want to ask, what are the CURRENT test laws? (however ridiculous they are this year) I just want to know where I stand on this up hill struggle to get a bike with more power than the average fart.

How old are you right now?

• If you're 17-19, it's the A1

  This allows that massive 125cc...

• If you're 19-21, it's the A2

  Which allows up to 47bhp, which can be on a larger bike that you can restrict to no less than half its power.

  Therefore, you can get a whole bunch of bigger bikes - like a Suzuki SV650, or an ER-6N and then get a restrictor put in.

  This pretty much just kills the top end of the bike's rev range, but still easily manages motorway speeds.

• 24+ [or 21, having had a A2 for 2 years] and it's the full A licence.

  AKA: any damn bike you want.

Oh, and you need to pay for each successive test.

Even a lot of instructors believe there's zero point in the A1 - as long as you get yourself a few lessons to improve your riding if needed.

[Only real benefits: No L-plates, and allowed on the motorway... but at crap speed. Good luck with a pillion on a 125]

[Variomatic]

Assholes. Assholes everywhere.

Some people just like antagonising learners. And given that these types often dislike bikers [because we're better than them (: ], they do it worse. The Housemate has had someone try and literally push her bike [with their car] into oncoming traffic...

How old are you right now?

• If you're 17-19, it's the A1

  This allows that massive 125cc...

• If you're 19-21, it's the A2

  Which allows up to 47bhp, which can be on a larger bike that you can restrict to no less than half its power.

  Therefore, you can get a whole bunch of bigger bikes - like a Suzuki SV650, or an ER-6N and then get a restrictor put in.

  This pretty much just kills the top end of the bike's rev range, but still easily manages motorway speeds.

• 24+ [or 21, having had a A2 for 2 years] and it's the full A licence.

  AKA: any damn bike you want.

Oh, and you need to pay for each successive test.

Even a lot of instructors believe there's zero point in the A1 - as long as you get yourself a few lessons to improve your riding if needed.

[Only real benefits: No L-plates, and allowed on the motorway... but at crap speed. Good luck with a pillion on a 125]

17, I wanted a bike at 16, but come on, limited to 30....nope, no thanks. 7.2 cubic inches I can do, but 3....nope.

Assholes indeed, I once had a truck merge into my lane and run me off the road because "he thought I'd move out of his way", and I had no way of moving out of the path of this hulking behemoth of a vehical, thankfully the bike was fine and the driver got punched (I know I shouldn't have but come on, he should be sharing a cell with Big Richard for that)

Right, I think I'll do my A1 (provided the law is the same by the time I have the cash) I understand you can't have a 17 year old with a 160bhp CBR fierblade but I mean come on, there are ice cream trucks with more stick than my bike, that's unacceptible, it's dangerous to be on a bypass or motorway, 200 or 250cc would be more reasonable to me. But ohh well, these laws are made by men who don't even know what a CDI is...

Thatnk's for the help

EDIT:

Also, maybe it'd be an idea to update the sticky thread? That ones the 2013 law and is very outdated (but one I wish we still used)

[steve 1052cc]

When I first started riding 16 year olds could ride 250cc on L plates pass your test while you were 16 and then unlimited. I was riding a 500cc T500 Suzuki just before my 17th birth day. Should we have been allowed to ride unlimited bikes at 16 no probably not, 3 riders I knew were dead before they were 18 all bike accidents. I was one of the lucky ones stayed alive long enough to get experience but could so easily have been just another statistic. So curse it as much as you like there's a lot of men walking around today that would have been just another teenage statistic if they had not changed the rules. I spent 12 weeks in hospital when I was 17 with a broken femur in 3 places, out of a ward of about 30 beds a least half were taken up by under 20 year olds as a result of a motor cycle accident.

[Campaman]

Are you sure on your ages there Steve.

When I was a youngster many moons ago, we could ride a 50cc moped from 16, I had a unrestricted FS1E and then you could have up to 250cc once you were 17.

[captf]

There's definitely a bit of sense to them. The vast majority of younger drivers and riders are over-represented in accidents for a reason.

Is it unfair on those who are sensible? A wee bit, yeah. But most haven't got control of the "is this really a sensible thing to do?" impulses yet.

[saying that, I know people in their 40s that still haven't...]

So, should there still be the different classes of bike licence? Definitely.

But do they need examination? Yeah... at least the A1 category. 125cc is pitiful to imply that they're allowed on the motorway - when their top speed is often around 60mph.

As for sticking with L plates though - honestly, don't worry about it. Just see those that are arseholes as jealous. They wish they had the bottle to stick a tank of flammable liquid between their legs.

The only other road users whose opinion matters is other bikers. And even then, not always (: But how do they treat you because you have L plates on? Is it any different?

As a biker, you need to ride as if everyone is trying to kill you. Be aware of your surroundings. Some douche tries to merge into your lane? Smack the horn and roll off or on the throttle as needed. Shake your head, and then shake it out of your head. Getting pent up will only make you ride worse.

And hell, I don't even think I know what a CDI is!

Finally, some history!

• 1960: Learner riders restricted to motorcycles under 250cc and must display L-plates
• 1971: Motorcycle minimum age raised to 17. Moped age left at 16
• 1983: Learner riders restricted to 125cc motorcycles (1981 act)
• 1990: CBT introduced, certificate lasts for 3 years, part 2 still on road with examiner watching.
• 1996: UK implements EU licence directive in July. 2 year 33 bhp restriction for newly qualified riders. Direct access test & Theory Test.
• 2001: All CBT certificates issued for motorcycles and scooters from the 1st February, will now only last for 2 years.
• 2013: Introduction of 3DLD which see's 3 new catgories of motorcycle for testing, A1, A2 and A. all are age limited and subject to further training or test to move up to the next level.

[Ttaskmaster]

As you found, getting rid of the L-Plates does help.
After I passed my full test, I still spent something like 8 months on a 125 and I even went all the way down to Cornwall for holidays, so it's not impossible to manage.

Focus on improving your riding, get through the test and then you'll be laughing!

[lallasro]

sometime I like to "play" with bike learners on the road, I fallow them at some distance and observe what mistakes they make and in a lot of situations I saw the learners riding good, with no mistakes but lot of drivers act like everithing is wrong on the road, is because of those f learners on the bikes. I also saw learners that should not be allowed to ride a bike but in most cases the drivers act like " i`m smart, you are a f idiot, you have no rights here and i`m the king of the road"

another strange thing I observe was the attitude of the drivers if the learner is a cruiser rider. the drivers pay more attention and they respect on the road the baby cruiser riders... or maybe that was happening just by accident.

[DirtyDT]

An interesting thread. One thing that is an, almost, certainty is that it won't be getting easier or cheaper to get a licence in the future.

That said, turn the riding without L plates on its head. What's the worst that can happen? Maybe being nicked for no L plates, riding without a licence, riding without insurance, having an accident and having a civil law suit against you for several million quid, finding out at some point later in life that you need to disclose all convictions and those stop you working where you need to, going to prison etc.

Simpler to pass a test I would suggest for most people.

People may not like the laws and some of us still remember the days when we brought a 250, stuck some L plates on it and paid a couple of quid for an insurance certificate that allowed us to ride "up to" any cc bike which we brought over the counter at the bike shop (Norwich Union insurance pads).

I brought my first bike,collected it and rode away with no bike experience. The first few miles were errrr interesting.

[drewpy]

sometime I like to "play" with bike learners on the road, I fallow them at some distance and observe what mistakes they make and in a lot of situations I saw the learners riding good, with no mistakes but lot of drivers act like everithing is wrong on the road, is because of those f learners on the bikes. I also saw learners that should not be allowed to ride a bike but in most cases the drivers act like " i`m smart, you are a f idiot, you have no rights here and i`m the king of the road"

another strange thing I observe was the attitude of the drivers if the learner is a cruiser rider. the drivers pay more attention and they respect on the road the baby cruiser riders... or maybe that was happening just by accident.

you have a point there as cruiser 125's are cheaper to insure than the others

[captf]

That said, turn the riding without L plates on its head. What's the worst that can happen? Maybe being nicked for no L plates, riding without a licence, riding without insurance, having an accident and having a civil law suit against you for several million quid, finding out at some point later in life that you need to disclose all convictions and those stop you working where you need to, going to prison etc.

Potential 3 points for each missing L-plate.

Insurance is null and void, because you're not adhering to its conditions. Therefore, even if you're not at fault in the accident, you will not get a pay out. And therefore driving without insurance; 6-8 points.

Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence; 3-6 points

So, you could pretty much end up banned from driving/riding before you've even sat a test.

There is zero shame in L-plates. And if you want to see people treat you even worse, once you pass, put on the Green L-Plates...

Red Rag. To. A. Bull.

There are chavs who will deliberately antagonise those drivers.

[jimmy]

People may not like the laws and some of us still remember the days when we brought a 250, stuck some L plates on it and paid a couple of quid for an insurance certificate that allowed us to ride "up to" any cc bike which we brought over the counter at the bike shop (Norwich Union insurance pads).

I brought my first bike,collected it and rode away with no bike experience. The first few miles were errrr interesting.

I did the same thing. Riding a bike around a field gave me my experience and a month after my 17th birthday I headed up to Glasgow to collect my first bike, an xs250 (great bike, did I tell you about it), anyway a wee chat with the salesman and back in the shop he goes leaving me in the middle of Glasgow city centre on my own on a Friday afternoon. Bearing in mind the only way I had ever visited the place was by train so had no need to learn the road layout.....Scary times indeed.

[DirtyDT]

So you start the day riding without L plates. You end the year with a giant law suit, dusting big Richards cell ( amongst other chores he likes you to do for him) and finding an extremist religion.

Scary!

[captf]

leaving me in the middle of Glasgow city centre on my own on a Friday afternoon. Bearing in mind the only way I had ever visited the place was by train so had no need to learn the road layout.....Scary times indeed.

At least it'd not be the hell of one way streets that it's become in the past decade.

I remember a point not that long ago where it was a regular occurance to be able to go one route one week, and the next find it'd been turned into a one way street [in the opposite direction] or a buslane.

[neversaydie]

he makes a good point regarding the car test though. Pass and the skys the limit from the off, with an ever increasing number of in car distractions

[bippo]

It may not be the best model, and I genuinely feel sorry for the youngster who do want to become bikers - but personally I'm glad I went through the training I did to get my license.

Obtaining your car license is a joke in comparison and without a doubt agree that needs to change. My car is ridiculous really - I can browse the Internet, Facebook, text and manage emails all via the in-built touchscreen?! What the hell is that about... They haven't even tried to build a safety net which prevents it being used when moving, in gear or whatever. Ultimately though I don't understand why you really need that level of connectivity in a car, but hey that's the way of the world now...

You can hold your own on a smaller bike - plenty of others here enjoy smaller bikes. Granted they aren't really good for motorways and the like, but they are dull roads anyway.

That said, I did notice a difference in behaviour with and without L plates when I still had my YBR. People would bully me a little, probably just assuming I was a youngster under the lid (as opposed to someone who had been driving for over 10 years at the time). I guess it's just human nature for some - you see drivers getting irate with learners and I agree, those green P plates turn you into a moving target.

[captf]

I used to work in a petrol station, and I had a woman come in all happy...

She slapped the P plates on the counter, "These please! My daughter's just passed!"

Told her that she really shouldn't. Explaining that no, other drivers will not give her more courtesy because she's showing she's just passed... and that they'll treat her worse, and about the people who deliberately try and force these drivers into dangerous situations [i've heard neds brag about it] especially if the driver is alone.

White faced, she changed her mind on buying them.

As for cars... the reliance people are getting on extra tech for them is silly.

I know people who refuse to go anywhere without satnav directing them. Even when I, as a passenger, have told them I can give them exact directions. Or shortcuts. "But satnav says go this way!"

I prefer to just memorise the route, and resort to satnav as a last resort.

And it terrifies me how often I see people on the phone while driving still.

[Noise]

As a CBT instructor its a proper nightmare with 50cc mopeds out on the road, always having to look at the student and at all the assholes who are trying to force their way past you or pulling out at the last minute and it is ll to do with that L plate.

On Sunday one of my students stalled pulling away at the lights and we as instructors (at my school) always ride slightly to the left of the student behind them so that they can see out their mirrors and not just see a mirror full of intimidating instructor, now i had two students in front of me and a proper arrogant impatient female driver behind me, your never guess what she done.....yep you guessed it she forced her way past me (just missed my bars) then forced past the first student, now by this time the front student was just about to pull away which is when i told him to stop which thankfully he did and she just managed to get past him. She only then pulled over to the side of the road to let her mate out the car at their house!!!

As said above you can only do your A1 test to remove them but then you need to pay for every other test in order to get the full A category, once you get the A1 use the time wisely to get very good road sense and learn how to spot these assholes in a good timely manner, keep looking up at the vanishing point to give you a reasonable length of time to spot anything that will make you slow down or move the bike left or right.

[steve 1052cc]

Unfortunately campa man I'm old enough to have been lucky enough to start riding 250cc at 16 before the law changed to 17 for 250cc and 16 for 50cc. Forgot to say did not need to wear helmets either. First time I rode my Honda CB72 250 was on my 16 birthday to work from one side of Nottingham to the other no lessons just a few hours on a field on a BSA Bantam.

[Simon46]

Passed my test in durban south Africa. As long as you didnt wipe out in the gravel pit on the test all ok. Not valid in UK so did cbt and mod 1 and 2 with apex new mills. OMG used to ride in flip flops and shorts in the 80s. Im horrified at as a kid at what i used to do. So expensive course but needed.