Noise Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Hey folks, just me having a waffle. I started my CBT instructor training on Tuesday and today was my third day out of 6 so pretty much gone half way through and my god how flipping hard is it!! Now i done my CBT just over 4 years ago and thought it was an eye opener, bit boring till i got on the bike and a bit of a mind fuck when we got going. But after doing the big boys test and learning all the "bad habits" then going back to do this instructor training i never actually realised how hard it really is, not only to pass the CBT but to do it so perfectly that you show a novice how to ride a bike for the first time. Tomorrow im on a road ride in the morning and in the afternoon i have to teach my instructor how to do all 20 exercises on the pad! Its a fun course and im learning more about riding than i did but also polishing up on my own riding too. Well there is my waffle, have a good night
Moderator drewpy Posted January 22, 2015 Moderator Posted January 22, 2015 sounds good and will benefit others as well as yourself
Moderator Airhead Posted January 22, 2015 Moderator Posted January 22, 2015 Good for you mate, enjoy it
bippo Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Well done for doing it Noise! Good luck and keep us posted.
KirriePete Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Crack on Noise old fruit. Did Cardington myself last week, nailed it! Now just waiting for the call to go back down for the DAS ticket and that's me sorted! Top tips from someone who knows - Find out everything you can about their riding background, then treat them as a rank novice until they've proved themselves. Be proactive, talk your trainee through every move until you're sure they know what to do. Then give them a chance to do it. Always position yourself to see what they're doing - if it's a braking exercise make sure you can see both front and rear brakes and so forth. If you're having a chat with the trainee, make sure they're in neutral first, maybe even switch off. Be ready to catch! When you go out on the road, keep your voice level and even, airline pilot style, gives them confidence if you sound like you know what you're doing, and keep the chatter down, just give them crisp, clear, simple instructions. Don't be afraid to stop them out on the road - a mistake that needs a bit of explaining, or making the same silly little mistake a couple of times, do it face-to-face kerbside not on the roll. Watch your own riding, no point bollocking them for not stopping at a STOP if you follow straight after them! That'll do for a start, if you've got any questions drop me a PM and I'll do my best to fuck you up sort you out. 1
jimmy Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 "When you go out on the road, keep your voice level and even, airline pilot style, gives them confidence if you sound like you know what you're doing" Pete That is a great piece of advice which I have used on several occasions at work...even when my knees have been knocking. And just about every time I have carried it off to a successful conclusion
KirriePete Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 "When you go out on the road, keep your voice level and even, airline pilot style, gives them confidence if you sound like you know what you're doing" Pete That is a great piece of advice which I have used on several occasions at work...even when my knees have been knocking. And just about every time I have carried it off to a successful conclusion .... and if you get a good tone to your voice the laydeez lurve it!
Moderator DirtyDT Posted January 23, 2015 Moderator Posted January 23, 2015 It can (could) be good fun. I taught CBT as a volunteer back in the early '90's. I turned Cardington down when it was offered due to work commitments and sometimes regret it. It was a good way to give something back and socialise. Sunday mornings for practical and Tuesday evenings for theory where I taught. There must be quite a few experienced bikers out there now with my signature on their CBT certificate.
Ttaskmaster Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Good on ya Noisy!! Keep your mind focussed and get this under your belt - You are the future of our biking brethren, so as long as you are top class they will follow! 1
KirriePete Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 So Noisy, how's it going? Don't leave us all hanging, you got your ticket or not?
Noise Posted January 27, 2015 Author Posted January 27, 2015 Hey folks, sorry for the late reply my heads only just stopped hurting haha. Thanks for the great words of wisdom and encouragement from all of you. Thankfully im not doing Cardington as im only being down trained but maybe in the future I'll dip my hand in that can of worms but not yet, still plenty more years left in me so I'll stick to just CBTs then after a few years of getting the hang of teaching I'll give it a bash. As for keeping my voice like a airline pilot, now thats the tricky part! My mate who is training me keeps bollocking me as he says im acting like im still in the Army and feels like im barking orders at him, but im getting better at it. I helped out on three CBTs now two complete noobs and one refresher and i managed to teach 6 pad exercises which went very well, managed to catch the clutch on one of them just as he 'forgot' to slip it haha. All in all im loving it, great fun and love how im helping people gain something that will potentially stay with them for life if they take it to their full A licence. Still got a few more weekends to go till i get my card but hey can't rush perfection. 2
captf Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 'forgot' to slip it This came up in conversation with my housemate today... Neither of us know what 'slip the clutch' actually means. [Well, I think I know but don't want to say the wrong thing. Hell, I keep on forgetting which way "disengaging the clutch" means...] She's still in the learning stages, and getting frustrated that she doesn't know terms like this. In her lesson today, she was told "you're not slipping the clutch while going round the corner." And wasn't given a chance to ask for clarification. So, to prevent me from making an arse of a description. Explain it like I'm 5, what does "slipping the clutch" mean? (:
KirriePete Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 Slipping the clutch for beginners. The clutch is basically 2 plates held together by strong springs, one plate attached to the engine (so it's always spinning when the engine is running), the other plate is attached to the gearbox. When you pull the clutch lever in, you separate these plates disengaging the clutch - this allows the engine to run without turning the gears and hence the rear wheel. When the clutch lever is released all the way, the plates are forced together by the springs, essentially making a solid connection from the engine, via the gearbox to the rear wheel, driving the machine forwards. If you were to just release the clutch lever in gear, the plates would snap together and full engine speed would be transferred to the gearbox, jerking the machine forward violently. Slipping the clutch is where you release the lever gently, so that the plates start to rub against each other slightly, smoothing out the transfer of power - the bite point is where this starts to happen, on most bikes this is about the last half inch or so of lever travel. When doing slow speed riding (slaloms, figure-8 etc) - slipping the clutch allows the engine speed to be kept up, giving smoother power, while the actual road speed is kept low, allowing easier turning etc. Does that help? I usually explain this while demonstrating by rubbing my hands together - one hand being the engine side, the other being the gearbox - as I increase pressure between my hands the gearbox side starts to move with the engine hand...... 2
captf Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 Perfect. It's pretty much what I thought it was. Even when I was learning, it was a term that was just dropped into instruction with no obvious context, and you're on heavu information overload so don't realise you don't understand it... Now, I just need to carefully choose my moment to explain it to the housemate - she's frustrated right now, after how much confidence she's lost since her SMIDY, and gets snappy with bike stuff. Hmm, while we're talking technique - what's the 'preferred' rev range of a 125cc, while you're riding? [hope you don't mind a mild usurping of thread, Noise (: ] [this is another case of I do one thing, she's been told another, and what she's been told just seems wrong to me - but I'm not an instructor...]
Noise Posted January 28, 2015 Author Posted January 28, 2015 Na its ok Cap im more than happy for you to ask as its a forum of help, not to tell folk to piss off out my thread haha. Im supprised that both yours and her instructor didn't explain how a clutch works? Not even a little bit. Could i ask how long your CBTs lasted? Now as for the rev rang on a 125 there is two ways to.judge it. One is a rev gauge (pretty simple really you keep the needle out the red zone) the second way has a bit more thinking to do and thats to 'listen' to the engine. If the engine sounds lumpy and as if its going to stall your below tick over or 1500rpm (ish) and your need to either increase speed by more throttle or changing down a gear. If the engine is screaming its bollocks off then we are up in that red zone of the rev gauge and we must ease off the throttle change up a gear and ease back on.
KirriePete Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Don't want to piss on your cornflakes Noise, but using the rev counter means taking your eyes off the road. We always tell trainees to get a feel for the engine by listening to it, after all it's thrashing away between your knees, innit? 2
captf Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 I don't know about her CBT, but it was explained how a clutch worked for mine. But from what I recall, they didn't really ever use the term 'slipping', instead they stated more plainly; "Bring in the clutch, no further than the biting point. You need to make sure there's still power getting to the wheel" With the rev range, it's whether you should aim to be at a specific point. I've always went for what sounds 'nice' and isn't laboured. This ends up meaning I'm in 5th at 30 on my YBR [4k rpm] when cruising. If I need to accelerate, it's easy enough to drop to 4th. Housemate was told yesterday that she should be at 8-9k rpm as much as possible [on a YBR]. Given that the red line is at 10k, this just seems nuts to me.
Ttaskmaster Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 'Slipping the clutch' - So called because the clutch plates are slipping against each other while still working. It's also called 'feathering the clutch' sometimes. Basically, letting the clutch out only part-way, just to the point where you feel the bike start to move forward. You can then apply a touch of extra throttle and the bike will move off. You should (ideally) be able to hold the clutch at this slip-point and move the bike along - But no mater how much you rev it up, the bike should continue at a consistent pace. The difference being that with the clutch fully engaged, the bike will surge forward as you whack the revs on. My instructor used to demonstrate this during slow-control manoeuvres, since that's when you'd use it most... he was very good at it! As for rev range - This takes a bit of experience until you recognise what to look and feel for. Many 125s (and even larger bikes) don't even have a rev counter, so learning it "by feel" is always best. Basically, you need to ride along at various rev ranges and see/feel how the noise relates to the bike's performance. To start with, as you let the clutch lever out your revs will burble - Increase revs and you'll get moving. As you slowly increase throttle, the revs will get louder and you'll go faster. As you come to the top of the rev range the bike will accelerate less and you'll ge getting louder without getting any faster. Change up a gear and the whole thing starts over. The idea is to change up before the bike starts sounding annoyingly loud. I normally ride along with perhaps only a quarter throttle, so will go up the gears until I find the one that lets me do that and keeps the engine fairly quiet. Now... You also have a power band on most bikes. This is a smaller range *within* the rev range and it's basically the points at which the bike responds best. It's the same idea as the rev range, but you'll find you hit the top of your power band a bit before you hit max revs. The idea is that you rev up almost toward the top of the power band, but change up a gear before you hit it. You get better performance out of your bike that way. An example would be riding along, when you come up behind a slower vehicle and decide you want to overtake - This needs to be done fairly fast, but on your 125 you're already in 3rd gear and the engine is getting louder. Before it gets too loud, you change up to 4th gear - This means you now have a whole new gear's worth of extra power with which to quickly execute the overtake. Of course, there are many other factors in this manoeuvre, but this is just the gearing part. A lot of riding bikes is about managing your power - You match the gear (and thus the power) to what you want to do, rather than picking a gear to match your speed.
Noise Posted January 28, 2015 Author Posted January 28, 2015 Na thats cool Kirrie im always happy to be corrected as every day is school day, but saying what you said does that mean you cant look at your speedo as you should get a feel for the speed your going? I think that if you only glance at your speedo to check how fast you are going you can 'glance' at your rev counter (if fitted) to check your revs. Your not taking your eyes off the road that long when checking your speedo so why so different for the revs? Haha Yes most bikes have no rev counter so it is best to teach about feeling the revs but if the bike has one fitted why not use it. Cap, as said above do what you feel is the best time.to change up or down, 8-9k is a bit too much stress on a bike that red lines at 10k in my eyes, should really be looking at a max of 7k to change up a gear IF the momentum is there to do so.
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