July 17, 201410 yr Moderator Do these bikes have built in immobilisers with the TDI matched to a passive transponder in the key? If you are getting a pulse to the coil, it would suggest not but that is all I can think of apart from setting light to it.
July 17, 201410 yr Moderator So if you put 12v to the coils connecton at the cdi end (cdi disconnected oc)manually from the battery, they spark when you remove the power?
July 17, 201410 yr Author Moderator Feck me what a suborn unt,gereraly speaking most puter's work on a 5v reference signal for cam or crank sensors and looks for a small varrience in the voltage.As the pick up only has a very short time to gererate any voltage,it just a pulse magnetic generator,what is the voltage to the pick ups. And to recap everything including the wireing to the pick ups has been run seperatly right? And with that the yello/blue wire has been grounded and not grounded even thought the wireing diagram shows it grounded through the clutch saftey. New pick ups installed? Coils and TCI have been confirmed to work on another bike? Because I am out of ideas. TCI def work, couldn't get the coils to spark manually, but couldn't with any of them (4 sets) even the originals which do work. There is no power to the pulse pickups, they generate their own power Do these bikes have built in immobilisers with the TDI matched to a passive transponder in the key? If you are getting a pulse to the coil, it would suggest not but that is all I can think of apart from setting light to it. no immobilisers fitted, got an led to light on the pulse coils So if you put 12v to the coils connecton at the cdi end (cdi disconnected oc)manually from the battery, they spark when you remove the power? So what am I doing wrong if I can't get them to spark manually as 4 sets wont work and they are wired directly to the battery
July 17, 201410 yr Moderator This is weird. The coils will need to charge until they are ready to jump to HT mode and fire. Is the power they are getting enough to get to that stage? If you can manually fire them then something in the system is drawing the power?? Is there some sort of balance resistor in the wiring that has broken?
July 17, 201410 yr Author Moderator This is weird. The coils will need to charge until they are ready to jump to HT mode and fire. Is the power they are getting enough to get to that stage? If you can manually fire them then something in the system is drawing the power?? Is there some sort of balance resistor in the wiring that has broken? its directly with the battery, new wires. 12.6 volts. how long do you have to hold them to charge? and do I collapse the feed or neg?
July 17, 201410 yr Moderator I have no idea to be honest. I know some bikes have a ballast resistor to the coils and if different coils are fitted then this is either bypassed or a new resistor is supplied. The original resistor is built into the harness where it is needed. Could the current be too high. I am just clutching at straws here but unless you need an exorcist, as assuming you have swapped out everything else then it is mighty strange. I would guess that some bike coils need one voltage and some another. A bit out of my depth in knowledge.
July 17, 201410 yr Moderator Thinking about the feed or neg. most coils are directly earthed to the frame so it must be feed. Er, I think!
July 17, 201410 yr Moderator There just little transformers. They step up the voltage from whatever the cdi sends out. Ballast resistors are used to help starting. In normal use the ballast resistor brings the voltage to the coils down to their actual rated voltage. Typically 7v or therabouts. When you start the vehicle the ballast resistor is bypassed. This ofsets the drag on the electrical system from the starter. Then once running it comes back in. Thus keeping the coil voltage in check. None of this changes the fact that coils with a good earth and a feed dobbed breifly on a good battery of anything over 6v should spark.
July 17, 201410 yr Moderator I found this LINKY, not sure if it is accurate nor if they actually have them but there cant be much more to check!
July 17, 201410 yr Ok drew you made me have to break out my old text book from school ,and so say the book you need 5+ volts from the trigger coil,possibly you dont have the gap correct But as Cynic said any coil shoud be able to make spark when the pos+ is removed, remove the spark plug and have the ht leed close to ground 3mm or so..
July 17, 201410 yr Author Moderator Ok drew you made me have to break out my old text book from school ,and so say the book you need 5+ volts from the trigger coil,possibly you dont have the gap correct But as Cynic said any coil shoud be able to make spark when the pos+ is removed, remove the spark plug and have the ht leed close to ground 3mm or so.. I was taking off the neg, will try the feed (+)
July 18, 201410 yr Moderator I have been thinking about this whilst eating popcorn with Tommy. In old systems the points stop the earth when they open and that fires the coil. The coil body is earthed but that may be a bit of a red herring because normally there are also 2 terminals (feed and earth) ignoring the coil body earth, power is fed to the coil and only when the second terminal earth is broken by points being opened does the coil fire. So assuming the coil is getting enough feed to power it up - and not too much - the break in the earth side should make it discharge. The earth from the terminal and the earth from the body may be the switch so when the terminal earth is connected it charges and when the body earth only is connected it discharges. Hence the kill switch, or ignition, being connected to that wire too on older bikes. Therefore if the coil is connected to the battery feed direct, and assuming that the power to the coil is enough and correct and the coil body is earthed to the battery, by connecting and disconnecting the terminal earth should fire the coil. If that works then there must be a short in the earth terminal wire either grounding it out or a break not allowing it to charge. Er... I think but i might have got that wrong. It did make sense when I wrote it though.
July 18, 201410 yr Moderator Just to add. I know it is electronic ignition but I wanted to reference it against a points system as it was easier to visualise. Does the coil terminal earth go back to the CDI? I wonder if it does if that is earthed properly or there is something wrong with the earth side. You would still get the power but not break the earth continuity.
July 18, 201410 yr Author Moderator ok I managed to get a spark from the dynas off the bike taking out the 5kohm cap and resistor spark plugs and using a nail instead I've earthed the TCI in the right places to the frame and confirmed its earthed. basically the TCI is a posh earth switch controlled by a chip to change the frequency of the switching.
July 18, 201410 yr Moderator Resisted caps AND resisted plugs. Thats a no no Andy. You have resisted caps or resisted plugs. That may well be your problem.
July 19, 201410 yr Author Moderator found me spark; combination of things 1) couldn't get to fire manually off battery, so took off the caps and the spark was very weak. even though Dyna say it doesn't matter which way the connections went,I turned them round and got a better spark. 2) kept the 5k caps on and resistor plugs as both = 10k ohms which is correct for the bike 3) tried an R1 pickup/trigger coil and it gave our 1.5volts, 3 times the old one. this told me that the one I have must be faulty 4) there was some rust/paint on the raised parts of the mag, so cleaned them up with wet and dry 5)installed a new trigger coil and got spit back out of carbs, so got sparks. still need to wire it in properly, but its had quite a downpour today so hopefully will get out tomorrow and see what's what she's not running as yet, but at least I'm getting there
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