barwell1992 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 right im going to france in 4 weeks my dad and me on bike's and mum in car the problem lies in my age now all i can find is that im alowed to ride up to a 125cc buy french law and i have a 660cc so aparently i have to be 18 to have any thing over a 125cc even thogh my bike is restricted (will be buy the time we go) so y carnt i ride over there ??? also i did the new test braught in buy the EU so dosent that have somthing to do with it as i have some advanced monuvers sutificate so shouldent that bring me some loyalties ?? realy pissed and need to know within 5 day other wise i dont get the ferry fees back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwell1992 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 ok been reading up some more on it and aparently there laws are exactly the same apart from to get a A2 licens you have to be 18 and i have a A2 licens so i dont get whats the problem also im geting diforent info from diforent places one palce is saying 16 can ride 80cc and another is saying a 15 can ride 125cc so im geting more and more confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DirtyDT Posted May 28, 2009 Moderator Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hi, It is not good news. There are several licences, mopeds without licence, small bikes that are licenced and then over 18. Maybe others as well. It does look like the minimum age is 18 for anything decent. The actual relevant laws are below but look for the caveat that says under 18's don't count. Mutual recognition 1. The principle Article 1(2) of Directive 91/439/EEC stipulates that all driving licences have to be mutually recognised within the European Union. Where the holder of a valid driving licence acquires "normal residence" in a Member State other than that which issued the licence, the host country has to recognise the licence. Directive 80/1263/EEC laid down a period of one year during which the exchange had to be carried out by the authorities of the state of residence. This obligation has been abolished since 1 July 1996, the date of entry into force of Directive 91/439/EEC. It is still possible to exchange licences but it has to be based on a purely voluntary action on the part of the licence holder. At the time of the exchange, the Member State in which the holder has acquired normal residence issues a Community model licence of the corresponding category or categories, without the need for a theoretical or practical examination. Authorities must however check that the licence is valid. 2. Exceptions Article 1(3) of Directive 91/439/EEC establishes an exception to this general principle of mutual recognition. It is noted that « Where the holder of a valid national driving licence takes up normal residence in a Member State other than that which issued the licence, the host Member State may apply to the holder of the licence its national rules on the period of validity of the licence, medical checks and tax arrangements and may enter on the licence any information indispensable for administration. » With regard to the period of validity of driving licences, Directive 91/439/EEC therefore allows Member States to apply their national provisions. In practice, the validity arrangements vary from one Member State to another. This means that a different period of validity, shorter for example, can be applied to the holder of a licence, in the event of change of residence. With regard to the interval between medical examinations, this has not been harmonised by Community legislation. In the majority of the Member States, it coincides with the period of validity. Driving licences issued by a non-member country and recognised by a Member State, are not recognised reciprocally in a systematic manner, even in the eventual case that the licence has been exchanged for a Community model in the meantime. It is therefore advisable to contact the competent national authorities. Member States are not obliged to recognise driving licences issued to persons aged under 18. Minimum ages Article 6 of Directive 91/439/EEC lays down minimum age conditions for obtaining a driving licence. 16 years: for sub-category A1 for sub-category B1 18 years: for category A; however, access to the driving of motorcycles with a power exceeding 25 kW or a power/weight ratio exceeding 0,16 kW/kg (or motorcycles with sidecars with a power/weight ratio exceeding 0,16 kW/kg) shall be subject to a minimum of two years' experience on motorcycles with lower specifications under an A licence; this requirement as to previous experience may be waived if the candidate is at least 21 years old, subject to the candidate's passing a specific test of skills and behaviour; for categories B, B+E for categories C, C+E and subcategories C1, C1+E, without prejudice to the provisions for the driving of such vehicles in Council Regulation (EEC) 3820/85 of 20 December 1985 on the harmonization of certain social legislation relating to road transport; 21 years: for categories D and D+E and subcategories D1, D1+E, without prejudice to the provisions for the driving of such vehicles in Regulation (EEC) 3820/85. Directive 91/439/EEC specifies that Member States may derogate from the minimum age requirements of laid down for categories A, B and B+E and issue such driving licences from the age of 17 years, except in the case of the provisions for category A laid down in the last sentence of the first indent of paragraph 1 B Member States may refuse to recognise the validity in their territory of driving licences issued to drivers under 18 years of age. On harmonised licences The harmonisation law will come into practice in 2013 – when newly-issued driving licenses must be of the new credit-card-like permit – while the deadline for the replacement of all old driving licenses will not be until 2033. Given, for example, that French law says you start with 12 points and then they take points off and we do it the other way round do we try and get as may points as possible before it starts? Also does that mean that they will ban 14 to 16 year olds from riding so we can get french moped spares cheap as they will not be able to ride OR we will have 14 year olds riding around the streets?? It is going to get messy. Sorry to P' you off. There is something special about geting off the ferry and riding in France. Sorry!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwell1992 Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 cheers for that it was helpfull ,disapointig but helpful well my dads going to ring the insurance company up andsee what they say and then the DVLA to see what they say what pisses me of the most is i have already been riding for a year on the roads befor hand ohh well we shal see what they come back with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator mervin Posted May 28, 2009 Moderator Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hi, It is not good news. There are several licences, mopeds without licence, small bikes that are licenced and then over 18. Maybe others as well. It does look like the minimum age is 18 for anything decent. The actual relevant laws are below but look for the caveat that says under 18's don't count. Mutual recognition 1. The principle Article 1(2) of Directive 91/439/EEC stipulates that all driving licences have to be mutually recognised within the European Union. Where the holder of a valid driving licence acquires "normal residence" in a Member State other than that which issued the licence, the host country has to recognise the licence. Directive 80/1263/EEC laid down a period of one year during which the exchange had to be carried out by the authorities of the state of residence. This obligation has been abolished since 1 July 1996, the date of entry into force of Directive 91/439/EEC. It is still possible to exchange licences but it has to be based on a purely voluntary action on the part of the licence holder. At the time of the exchange, the Member State in which the holder has acquired normal residence issues a Community model licence of the corresponding category or categories, without the need for a theoretical or practical examination. Authorities must however check that the licence is valid. 2. Exceptions Article 1(3) of Directive 91/439/EEC establishes an exception to this general principle of mutual recognition. It is noted that « Where the holder of a valid national driving licence takes up normal residence in a Member State other than that which issued the licence, the host Member State may apply to the holder of the licence its national rules on the period of validity of the licence, medical checks and tax arrangements and may enter on the licence any information indispensable for administration. » With regard to the period of validity of driving licences, Directive 91/439/EEC therefore allows Member States to apply their national provisions. In practice, the validity arrangements vary from one Member State to another. This means that a different period of validity, shorter for example, can be applied to the holder of a licence, in the event of change of residence. With regard to the interval between medical examinations, this has not been harmonised by Community legislation. In the majority of the Member States, it coincides with the period of validity. Driving licences issued by a non-member country and recognised by a Member State, are not recognised reciprocally in a systematic manner, even in the eventual case that the licence has been exchanged for a Community model in the meantime. It is therefore advisable to contact the competent national authorities. Member States are not obliged to recognise driving licences issued to persons aged under 18. Minimum ages Article 6 of Directive 91/439/EEC lays down minimum age conditions for obtaining a driving licence. 16 years: for sub-category A1 for sub-category B1 18 years: for category A; however, access to the driving of motorcycles with a power exceeding 25 kW or a power/weight ratio exceeding 0,16 kW/kg (or motorcycles with sidecars with a power/weight ratio exceeding 0,16 kW/kg) shall be subject to a minimum of two years' experience on motorcycles with lower specifications under an A licence; this requirement as to previous experience may be waived if the candidate is at least 21 years old, subject to the candidate's passing a specific test of skills and behaviour; for categories B, B+E for categories C, C+E and subcategories C1, C1+E, without prejudice to the provisions for the driving of such vehicles in Council Regulation (EEC) 3820/85 of 20 December 1985 on the harmonization of certain social legislation relating to road transport; 21 years: for categories D and D+E and subcategories D1, D1+E, without prejudice to the provisions for the driving of such vehicles in Regulation (EEC) 3820/85. Directive 91/439/EEC specifies that Member States may derogate from the minimum age requirements of laid down for categories A, B and B+E and issue such driving licences from the age of 17 years, except in the case of the provisions for category A laid down in the last sentence of the first indent of paragraph 1 B Member States may refuse to recognise the validity in their territory of driving licences issued to drivers under 18 years of age. On harmonised licences The harmonisation law will come into practice in 2013 – when newly-issued driving licenses must be of the new credit-card-like permit – while the deadline for the replacement of all old driving licenses will not be until 2033. Given, for example, that French law says you start with 12 points and then they take points off and we do it the other way round do we try and get as may points as possible before it starts? Also does that mean that they will ban 14 to 16 year olds from riding so we can get french moped spares cheap as they will not be able to ride OR we will have 14 year olds riding around the streets?? It is going to get messy. Sorry to P' you off. There is something special about geting off the ferry and riding in France. Sorry!! Why do you think french drivers come here and drive around like hell, trying to get some points back on their licenses. my french mate moaning Serge was saying about the points thing on the ferry a couple of years ago, i said "Serge disconnect your speed limiter and drive up the motorway flat out the english police will give you some points back then" he did not look too sure about this though merv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DirtyDT Posted May 28, 2009 Moderator Share Posted May 28, 2009 Why do you think french drivers come here and drive around like hell, trying to get some points back on their licenses. my french mate moaning Serge was saying about the points thing on the ferry a couple of years ago, i said "Serge disconnect your speed limiter and drive up the motorway flat out the english police will give you some points back then" he did not look too sure about this though merv When you get off the ferry all the foreign reg cars shoot up the M2 or M20 with the speed camera's flashing so I guess we don't chase them when they go home. In France you get stopped and empty your wallet. That doesn't count the toll roads that used to start south of paris but now are right by the ports. I am not moaning though. Drove to Brittany last year from Dover in the car and going to Normany this year by car. Fabulous. Biking in france is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator mervin Posted May 28, 2009 Moderator Share Posted May 28, 2009 When you get off the ferry all the foreign reg cars shoot up the M2 or M20 with the speed camera's flashing so I guess we don't chase them when they go home. In France you get stopped and empty your wallet. That doesn't count the toll roads that used to start south of paris but now are right by the ports. I am not moaning though. Drove to Brittany last year from Dover in the car and going to Normany this year by car. Fabulous. Biking in france is fantastic. if you are in no hurry avoid the peages, nice scenery lovely villages etc,nice cafes,interesting churches etc too visit, much better than rushing down the peages merv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 right im going to france in 4 weeks my dad and me on bike's and mum in car the problem lies in my age now all i can find is that im alowed to ride up to a 125cc buy french law and i have a 660cc so aparently i have to be 18 to have any thing over a 125cc even thogh my bike is restricted (will be buy the time we go) so y carnt i ride over there ??? also i did the new test braught in buy the EU so dosent that have somthing to do with it as i have some advanced monuvers sutificate so shouldent that bring me some loyalties ?? realy pissed and need to know within 5 day other wise i dont get the ferry fees back Hi, just check with your mates (DVLA) you may find as your licence is correct you may be qualified to ride in france but I guess if you have a problem the under age thing will go against you ! Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwell1992 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 ohh well the holidays off lol going to greece in stead dad rang the dvla up and they sead the french are verry stringent and if i get puled over they will confiscate the bike and fine us about £1000 so at that point my dad and i decided that we wernt going to take the risk so we are going next year when im 18 lol ohh well will get some 250cc quads out when we get to greece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator DirtyDT Posted May 29, 2009 Moderator Share Posted May 29, 2009 Hi, Greece is nice too. It just means that you have something great to look forward to when you hit the 18 mark. It still shows what a shambles the harmonised licences will be across the European States. Here is an extract from another site. Mopeds From the age of 14, children can ride a moped (variously known as a cyclomoteur, scooter, vélomoteur or Mobylette, the last being a trade name) with an engine capacity below 50cc capable of a maximum speed of 45kph (28mph) – despite the contorsions of riders attempting to eke an extra kph or two from their machines. Mopeds must be registered and riders without a full licence must take a test ( brevet de sécurité routière/BSR) consisting of a theory paper ( attestation scolaire de sécurité routière/ ASSR1), taken at school, and five hours of practical training, four and a half of which must be on public roads, with a driving school (at a cost of around €75). Third-party insurance is necessary, and a metal tab with the owner’s name ( plaque de nom) must be attached to the handlebars. Mopeds aren’t permitted on motorways, and riders must use cycle paths where provided. Two-stroke petrol ( mélange deux-temps) is available at most petrol stations, although an electric version of the classic Solex (last manufactured in the 1980s, although imitations are still built), known as the E-solex, may be available in the near future. Mopeds can be lethal in the wrong hands (most teenagers have as much road sense as hedgehogs and rabbits) and hundreds are killed each year. If you have a child with a moped, it’s important to impress upon him the need to take care (particularly in winter) and not take unnecessary risks, e.g. always observe traffic signs and signal before making manoeuvres. Other Motorbikes Sixteen-year-olds can ride a motorcycle of up to 125cc (officially known as a moto légère), for which they require a licence A1. The requisite theory test, the ASSR2, can be taken at school. Eighteen-year-olds can begin ‘progessive training’ ( formation progressive) for a full motorcycle ( motocyclette or moto) licence ( A), although they’re limited to bikes below 34 horsepower until the age of 21. If you aren’t at school, you can take an attestation de sécurité routière ( ASR), which takes the place of the ASSR1 and 2, through an adult education provider such as GRETA. A car licence ( entitles you to ride a motorcycle of up to 125cc, provided you’ve been driving for at least two years (although you must retake the theory exam if you’ve held a licence for more than five years without riding a motorcycle). However, it’s recommended that you take a course of riding lessons with a moto-école, which costs around €300. So the differences between the Frence bike laws and ours are huge. I would guess that this is the same across the EU. Looking at the above we could get 14 year old on mopeds and not being able to ride anything over 34bhp until you are 21. That is unless the new bike test hasn't killed or put off all prospective bikers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwell1992 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 lol ye there laws are confusing lol at least i will have been on the road for 2 years buy the time i go also we are going to wales for a cople of days (north wales) to the quill factory (exhaust makers) to have my dads bike tuned on there roling road as they state the exhaust just drop on and work and they dont lol so might be geting my bike done at the same time. cheers all for clearing that up ps stupid french and there crappy laws will see me next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 stupid french and there crappy laws will see me next year Well I'm glad I put the cat amongst the pigeons as you may have spent some time in a French 'sing sing' or worse had your UK license revoked through misdemeanor in another country ! Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1949 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 ohh well the holidays off lol going to greece in stead will get some 250cc quads out when we get to greece Just be careful when you go to foreign countries. They have their own local by-laws which are not known in the UK (I know that Greece is part of the EU) But on BBC Points West this week there was a Non-League football club from Bristol in Greece celebrating something or other dressed in nuns clothing and got arrested for "insulting the uniform". They spent 40 hours in police custody with no food or drink and had to appear in court in their nuns clothing. (Maybe to humiliate them?) I know I've gone off in a tangent, and your dad most likely knows the ropes, but please take care. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwell1992 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 yeh greece is strange i have been going there for the last 15 years to various islands so mum and dad know the ropes and have had quad,mopeds and a car once we get them out evory year and i have driving them round for the last 3-4 years obviously ilegaly but mehh lol cheers for the concern to all above hey at least i asked lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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