Malleus Posted March 19, 2016 Posted March 19, 2016 So I have been back on the road a month or so. This morning I wake up to a lovely brown letter falling through my door. 'The alleged contravention of 38j;Failing to comply with a sign indicating that vehicular traffic must pass to the specified side of the sign.' I can either pay £65 now or appeal and possibly end up paying £130. They have sent through 2 images. One shows me filtering down past traffic, second shows me about 40 meters further down the road.. still filtering past traffic. Neither shows me passing the sign on the incorrect side. Does anyone think that is grounds for appeal? Should I just pay and get it out the way? I can honestly say I have no idea whether I did pass the sign on the wrong side, (pictures are 3 weeks old!!) there is a land rover blocking the crossing (a traffic offence also no? would love to see cameras up at every crossing for this... councils would make a ton) but for once it seems that it has left plenty of room for me to pass on the correct side and I have definitely squeezed through smaller spaces in the interests of complying with 'the law' and with less concerns for my own safety! if anyone has experience dealing with these, any advice would be appreaciated
slice Posted March 19, 2016 Posted March 19, 2016 Well to be honest I think if they sent you 2 photos that don't show you actually doing what they say your doing I would at the very least ask for more information, like an actual photo of you going past the sign in question? Sometimes they can and sometimes they can't, if they can't then it's your word against theirs and that is where you say "PROVE IT!" Make them earn their money don't just lay down and accept what they say. Just my opinion mind and you MUST get them to hold off on the larger fine while it's investigated cos otherwise by trying to prove your innocence the fine usually doubles or triples, get the info in writing as well, talk to your local CAB, they have a solicitor on board most of the time and it's free for the first hour. 3
wild foamy Posted March 20, 2016 Posted March 20, 2016 As above, unless they specifically show you contravening the relevent rule, fight it. once you open your case the clock should stop so to speak, keep everything logged by email and seek professional advice where nescessary. 1
Malleus Posted March 20, 2016 Author Posted March 20, 2016 thanks both. If they will stop counting the days to price increase then I will send out a letter tomorrow and give them a call to discuss. I have done some reading on CAB website and stuff, just really not what I wanted to spend the weekend doing. I imagine a lot of people have received these as I see people going around the sign constantly!
slice Posted March 20, 2016 Posted March 20, 2016 I parked up in a service station some years ago returning from France, windscreen was covered in stickers from various ferries and other stuff, they didn't see the disabled sticker I have and sent me a £60 fine, fortunately my youngest son had taken a photo of the car, just by chance believe it or not, he was only 8 at the time but it clearly showed the car and the ticket. Got an apology and a free meal ticket from the company! Always pays to fight these sort of things they have a job to do but it has to be right. 1
Noise Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Post a pic of what they sent you, im not sure what sign they mean you failed to go round the right side??
Malleus Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 It is shit quality. Original is not much better. But first pic shows approaching the sign on the crossing ( I am slightly to the right, but always will be as I don't really want to be close to cars). Second pic shows me about 50 meters down the road! I can't tell which way I went. From the pic I could have just as easily flicked round the inside of the sign and continued filtering down the road. If it is automated it may have picked this up as I am over the line? Couldn't see the camera today. Already sent out letter asking that they provide actual evidence of this happening. See what happens. On the council website it says: If we reject your appeal, you can: take your appeal to an independent adjudicator. We will tell you how to do this in our letter. or pay the fine. The payment due will be the full payment rate, because the 14 day discount period will have elapsed. Pay your fine now {link} To me seems like a f*&#ing pisstake, basically if you dare to challenge we will make you pay more because we will not respond within the deadline. Which also seems to contradict what it says in the letter. Hey ho
slice Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Yes it's a "we can't be arsed to do it any quicker so pay up or double the fine" bastards. Fight it, they HAVE to show you breaking the regulations, otherwise everyone can be shown on both sides of the bloody sign. the adjudicators for this are good people and they will listen to what you have to say, DON'T under any circumstances say "I'm not sure which side I passed on" say your sure you "waited and passed correctly" let them prove you didn't. Nuff said. 5
Dom1878 Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Apart from a 'speeding ticket' albeit 34 in a 30 zone (bastards) I've never paid a PCN. Do everything in writing/typed letters as it slows the process down and they can't up the charge whilst you have acknowledged the original letter and are querying the evidence. It costs them a lot more money and time than you and they will not go to court on it unless you are the unluckiest person on the road. And yes, they can't issue a notice based on what they think you did so demand a photo of you on the wrong side stating you will happily pay the £65 upon receipt of this. These guys are brilliant for stuff like this. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk 1
jimmy Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 On 3/20/2016 at 9:41 AM, Malleus said: I imagine a lot of people have received these as I see people going around the sign constantly! Hmmm, You sure you never went round it.....just asking like That said, if they have no evidence of you passing the sign on the wrong side of the road, then as advised, fight it 1
Malleus Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 2 hours ago, jimmy said: Hmmm, You sure you never went round it.....just asking like That said, if they have no evidence of you passing the sign on the wrong side of the road, then as advised, fight it Like I said I honestly dont know either way. So im in the weird position of not knowing myself, and not having convincing evidence. If the picture showed me going round it I would have just paid up. I pass here everyday so what happens when they send a similar picture and I know for a fact I did pass on the correct side. dont want to set a precedent. So yea will challenge it until I am sure. 2 hours ago, Dom1878 said: Apart from a 'speeding ticket' albeit 34 in a 30 zone (bastards) I've never paid a PCN. Do everything in writing/typed letters as it slows the process down and they can't up the charge whilst you have acknowledged the original letter and are querying the evidence. It costs them a lot more money and time than you and they will not go to court on it unless you are the unluckiest person on the road. And yes, they can't issue a notice based on what they think you did so demand a photo of you on the wrong side stating you will happily pay the £65 upon receipt of this. These guys are brilliant for stuff like this. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk Ive been on a few similar forums. Will check it out. Either way it is kind of a piss take, £20/30-40/60 - alright - but £65-130.
bippo Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Several years back I got a letter through for jumping a red light. Odd, I thought as that's not my bag, but being the sucker I am I thought, "oh well I must have done wrong so I'll just suck it up". It was only by chance that I tuned into chatter around the office, and like wild fire I heard one person mentioned they'd been caught jumping a red light - then I hear someone else say the same, and someone else... So of course I piped up too! Turns out we'd all been caught on the same day, at the same lights - very close to our office. So we all requested photographic evidence and conveniently there was a light glare across the traffic lights - so whilst it showed us all going over the line, there was no way to tell which colour the lights were on... We all appealed and it got dropped. Still to this day wonder whether it was an honest mistake from someone doing maintenance on the camera (or whatever), or something more sinister hoping they'd get away with a mass of fines! 3
clarke Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Unless they have a photo of you on the wrong side of the road they can't prove it. But if you go to an appeal and say you might have gone round on the wrong side that won't do you any favours... From looking at the photo (on my mobile), you look far out to the right. Is that your foot down? You can explain you're out far to ensure you are visible/can see further up the road/have more chance to be seen and to see cars emerging from junctions on your left. The second picture clearly supports this. Foot down indicates you've stopped for a gap on your side of the road to pull back in..? Adjudicators are reasonable people. They like evidence of offences, and consistent evidence from appellants. Don't refer to what you see others do, all the adjudicator is interested in is what you did on the day. If you always go down that road and always pass that sign on the left then I'm sure you did on that day too. Hope it's resolved for you soon 1
finnerz89 Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 So they're saying you went around the bollards? If so, they have no evidence you actually did it! Looks to me like you were stopped waiting for a gap Sent from my E6553 using Tapatalk 1
Malleus Posted May 18, 2016 Author Posted May 18, 2016 So just to update - After what.. 2 months they finally got back to me with a letter saying they 'refuse my representation' and here is the CCTV evidence - however there was nothing else in the envelope.. Pretty piss poor so I phoned up - the lady takes the number and all I hear is - 'One moment - where are you, oh your on a motorbike - Yep you defiantly did it' - which I found pretty amusing - then she sent a dvd (free as well!) Turns out I did indeed do it and the pics are pretty deceiving, the traffic and myself are actually moving quite fast (think I am rushing for the light) which I suppose is why I didn't chance going in between bollards and the 4x4. Thanks for all the advice though - I am glad I challenged it anyway as I did not feel what they had sent was conclusive! So live and learn I suppose (Though I may have done same thing last week when a massive 18 wheeler was blocking the junction in heavy traffic give it a couple weeks..........) 1
jimmy Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 On 3/20/2016 at 4:48 PM, jimmy said: Hmmm, You sure you never went round it.....just asking like 2 hours ago, Malleus said: So just to update - After what.. 2 months they finally got back to me with a letter saying they 'refuse my representation' and here is the CCTV evidence - however there was nothing else in the envelope.. Pretty piss poor so I phoned up - the lady takes the number and all I hear is - 'One moment - where are you, oh your on a motorbike - Yep you defiantly did it' - which I found pretty amusing - then she sent a dvd (free as well!) Turns out I did indeed do it and the pics are pretty deceiving, the traffic and myself are actually moving quite fast (think I am rushing for the light) which I suppose is why I didn't chance going in between bollards and the 4x4. Thanks for all the advice though - I am glad I challenged it anyway as I did not feel what they had sent was conclusive! So live and learn I suppose (Though I may have done same thing last week when a massive 18 wheeler was blocking the junction in heavy traffic give it a couple weeks..........) I refer my learned friend to my earlier question 2
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