Moderator drewpy Posted April 24, 2014 Author Moderator Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ive just realised, your fitting an xj600 motor into a fz600 loom? yep and i have all the right connections in place with 12v to coils, all safeties bypassed, coils within specs, ignitor tested and working, earths checked. 3 month gel battery resting with 13volts on and kept on an optimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neversaydie Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Are you using the fazer coils or the coils for the xj motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Waiting to hear? But whats the major difference NSD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Cynic Posted April 25, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2014 Can you not try the pulse coil dynamicly. With the coil off the bike pass whatever triggers it across and see what happens. Be it a positive, drop to earth etc. Might help diagnosis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted April 25, 2014 Author Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2014 Are you using the fazer coils or the coils for the xj motor? 2.1 ohm coils from '91 xj. the fz's are 2.5 off the top of me head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted April 25, 2014 Author Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2014 Can you not try the pulse coil dynamically. With the coil off the bike pass whatever triggers it across and see what happens. Be it a positive, drop to earth etc. Might help diagnosis? I think it works by the raised magnetic "Castles" on the magneto passing the pickup coil with sends a small impulse to the ignitor. whether the ignitor sends anything through the other wire (there's two) is anyones guess. They do have to be the right way round, but if wrong doesn't affect the ignitor ie not destroy it. I think you need an oscilloscope to see the effect as its very small voltages we're dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Cynic Posted April 25, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2014 So second question. is there a critical distance for that system to work? Just throwing another question in , never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neversaydie Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Waiting to hear? But whats the major difference NSD? secondary resistance fz 10,560 to 15,480 secondary resistnace xj 9,600 to 14,400 fz 3 wires between pulse coils and ignitor, xj 2 wires between pulse coil and ignitor (think the 3rd wire is an earth linked to the dual puickups) fz one wire each to ignition coils from ignitor, same for xj the xj appears to have an additional wire connected that the fz doesnt, connected to a number of other electrical components im getting confused cos its an fz loom with xj parts and dont know which bike the ignitors from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 With pick up (that are pulse magnetic generators like bikes have )coils the puter sends a 5v reference signal to the pick up,the pick interrupts this signal and the puter sences iit on the return wire hence the need for 2 wires,it dosent matter how its built it can be a voltage increase or decrease,thats up to the designers and the puter is desined to know but generaly speaking its a voltage increase. Hall effect pick up's work different but i have never come accross one on a bike. The biggest problem with bikes is that generaly speaking the wiring goes straight from the puter to the pickup or a foot of wier away from the pickup and hard to test for the pick up wires to be getting the full 5v to the pick up,, shure the ohms test passes for that you only need 1 strand of wire to feed current through the pickup but that 1 strand of wire cant carry 5v.Cars are easier because normaly the pick up has a plug directly at the pick up so you can do a wiggle test and see if you get voltage fluxes,or test only the windings in the pick up The gap is important though and generaly speaking it is around .028-.030",passing a hack saw blade under the pick up does the same thing as the mettal lug on the rotor Hope that helps you understand how it works Drewps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 secondary resistance fz 10,560 to 15,480 secondary resistnace xj 9,600 to 14,400 fz 3 wires between pulse coils and ignitor, xj 2 wires between pulse coil and ignitor (think the 3rd wire is an earth linked to the dual puickups) fz one wire each to ignition coils from ignitor, same for xj the xj appears to have an additional wire connected that the fz doesnt, connected to a number of other electrical components im getting confused cos its an fz loom with xj parts and dont know which bike the ignitors from From what I understand drewps has changed everythig to be xj cdi pick up and coils and rewired the loom to be xj between all. EDIT the 3rd wire would be the reference feed wire to both pick up coils,pick up coils are not earthed,the difference would be that the fz has only 1 mettal lug on the rotor and the xj would have 2 and the xj pick up dose double duty where the fz has 1 pick up for each time the puter needs to fire a ignition coil.Simply put the cdi would have 2 seperat circuts to control spark in the fz and the xj would have a smarter chip to know it's time to fire the other coil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted April 25, 2014 Author Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2014 my next Port of call would be to try and re gap the pickup. the main issue is its screwed to the cover and the only way to check was maybe a bit of plasticine on the mag and see where it hits. for reference, all the ignition and charging electrics and motor are '91 xj600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Little trick put a small piece of paper on the pick up with some light glue ,don't wait for it to dry hard just enough that it wont just fall off ,,of slightly bigger thickness and it it comes off when you rotate the motor then your realy close .thats how they gap alot of the pickups in cars. Put paper on pick up and have the lug on fly wheel at the hole push in pick up and lock tight rotate and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Just had another thought if the pick up just bolts in then you can pull the spark plugs and pass a mettal what ever pass the pick up and if it is working then it will spark. Then you can gap it after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted April 25, 2014 Author Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2014 Little trick put a small piece of paper on the pick up with some light glue ,don't wait for it to dry hard just enough that it wont just fall off ,,of slightly bigger thickness and it it comes off when you rotate the motor then your realy close .thats how they gap alot of the pickups in cars. Put paper on pick up and have the lug on fly wheel at the hole push in pick up and lock tight rotate and done. that's sounds a good idea your last post wouldn't work, it will have to be magnetic and probably pretty close to the pickup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Take a flat screw dirver and tap it on your vice quickly for about 30 seconds it will be magnitised enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Any luck yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted May 1, 2014 Author Moderator Share Posted May 1, 2014 not with a broken finger, too risky ATM and I just had surgery on the face too which hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy xs Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well you've been needing that for a long time Hahaha sorry cant help! all above my head, I've got a headache just reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I know you have been banging your head over this problem but you should have stoped before it caused you to need surgery... Might I suggest you use a hammer instead of your face next time ROTFL I forgot you have a broken finger another week and you'l be fine they heal quick,just be stiff to use for awhile GWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted May 25, 2014 Author Moderator Share Posted May 25, 2014 back on this, thinking the blue/yellow wire maybe a feed rather than an earth to the TCI? have posted on the XJ forum and see what they say. the Yellow/blue is from the safety cutout switches (neutral and sidestand) but goes into the diode pack where it gets all skewed and I can't tell what does what with all the diodes and relays etc inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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