Old chain o-ring problem might be affecting new chain?!

[Smiley1244]

Hi All,

I'm afraid my first post is a call for help. I've just passed my test and treated myself to a 2009 XJ-6N. The bike seemed immaculate and was purchased from a dealer.

The issue occurred around 200 miles into riding the bike I noticed that the o-rings on the chain were popping out and ridding round with the chain (which were then cut on the sprocket). The bike has only done 6000 miles.

So I went back the dealer and said look (even with my limited knowledge) this isn't right, he agreed to have the chain changed for me and was really good about getting it done.

...and now the issue, I've done around 600 miles on the new chain.

I've just got back from a bit of a road trip (through some nasty weather) so I set about cleaning the bike up. One o-ring has popped out and another is being pushed out of the side, so obviously I'm a little worried that the same thing is happening again. I've got a 6 month warranty on the bike but wasn’t planning on riding much over winter so I'd like to get it resolved soon.

I've had the bike up on a paddock stand to check the chain and the wheel seems to have "sticky" spots when turning.

The chain has never been cleaned with anything "nasty" only even o-ring friendly stuff (I never had a chance to even clean the old chain).

The bike has a scottoiler that I believe was in the wrong position (slack spot of chain) so I moved it to the rear sprocket as per the instructions. I also changed the fluid in the oiler just in case it wasn't scottoil.

There is also a rattle/noise at 30mph and around 3-4K revs, sounds like screws being spun in a bean tin. Is the only way I can describe it. It's not loud and is only ever between 3-4K at 30mph. Again due to my limited experience this might be normal?! it really is that subtle and may be normal engine noise.

Any opinions or prior experience would be really appreciated. I'm going back to the dealer today to see what he says.

Thanks Ross

[Cynic]

Firstly the rattle at 3 to 4 k is the bike protesting at the indignity of rpm that low.

On a modern 600 there is very little mass in the motor. They need rpm to run smoothly unlike car engies that have s big flywheel.(relatively speaking) You prob need 3k just to move off. How would you car behave at 1000rpm. Remember she revs to 13k. Riding at 6k and up will be far more engine freindly.

The sticky spots are curious. It sounds like a couple of possibles.

1 a cheap chain

2 a non o ring chain lube has been ( even once is enough )used causing the o rings to swell

3 chain adjusted badly so it is too tight

It may well be a little of all 3. Was it a yamaha dealer.

It will help a lot if you pop into the new members and say high where you are etc. A lot of the members will hold off replying to a first post question.

[Smiley1244]

Thanks Cynic, Yeah I have too apologise for the lack of a "Hello" post although I have replied before (no excuse I know).

Point taken about the rev's, I'll keep it higher although I wouldn't say she struggles around there, certainly accelerates fine without "chugging".

The dealer wasn't a Yamaha Dealer but I've heard no horror stories from local bikers I've spoken to in passing.

Can't say much about the chain, was purchased by the dealer.

The new chain has only been cleaned once before I noticed the problem and it was with Muc-Off stuff (says o-ring safe).

The chain tension seems good (if anything it i think it could be a smidge tighter).

I've got a local Yama dealer (actually where I got my YBR from), might be time to say "Hi" there too.

[Airhead]

Never heard of this problem Ross, whats this about sticky spots at certain wheel positions, check the free play of the chain at various positions including when theres a sticky spot.

[Smiley1244]

If I turn the wheel there is more resistance to the wheel turning at points around the chain. I'll go out and check that now.

Not sure if it's related but the old chain got so bad that it would almost snag on the sprocket as the wheel was turning, I really hope it's not the same thing again.

I'll let you know my findings on the chain.

[Canny lad]

are the sprockets ok?.... i was always told when replacing a chain do the sprockets also as worn sprockets will wear out a new chain quite quickly...

[Smiley1244]

Yes I've read the same but the dealer said that with only 6000 miles on the clock they wouldn't need it. We had assumed at first that the bike may have been steam cleaned and that had caused the damage to the original chain.

I can't see any wear on the rear sprocket at all, the front is a bit harder to see but it looks ok, no sharking (i think its called).

I'm going now to check the chain tension as suggested, I'll try and get back tomorrow.

Thanks again for everyones responces . . .keep'em coming

[Airhead]

Yes I've read the same but the dealer said that with only 6000 miles on the clock they wouldn't need it. We had assumed at first that the bike may have been steam cleaned and that had caused the damage to the original chain.

I can't see any wear on the rear sprocket at all, the front is a bit harder to see but it looks ok, no sharking (i think its called).

I'm going now to check the chain tension as suggested, I'll try and get back tomorrow.

Thanks again for everyones responces . . .keep'em coming

He's got a point but if there are tight spots...clearly he's wrong and this really must be addressed immediately by adjusting the tension at the tight spot and ultimately replacing the sprockets. If the chain really does go tight (as in no free play) it will stress the hell out of your gearbox bearing...not good at all. Dont go tinkering yourself with the chain adjustment leave it for the guy you bought it off to do because of the warranty and this being a known problem like...dont give him any excuses that it was you who adjusted it wrong

[DirtyDT]

If the chain link has been peened on by a gorilla then you may get 2 tight spots, when the link hits the front and rear sprocket. The o rings on this link may also fail for the same reason.

Otherrandom faults.

Rear wheel on wonky

Rear sprocket warped

Front sprocket moving in and out on the driveshaft (nut loose)

[dt502001]

It was a good idea to get some 2nd opinions about this BUT as Air head said don't mess around with it just return the bike for repair,this may have been a ongoing problem for the last owner and they decided to get rid of the bike.

What brand of chain did they replace the orignal with? it might just be a cheap chain the dealer put on to keep his cost down,even if you have to chip in a few $$ get the best chain personaly I like DID.

Good luck with getting it sorted out

[Grouch]

I would replace the chain and sprockrets with a decentish one, it doesn't have to be the most expensive. I think it's the sprocket, if the dealer didn't replace it when he fitted a new chain (which should of been done regardless of the age of the sprocket) and the same problem has reoccured, then it's likely to be the sprocket causing the problem.

[Acid drop]

couple of mates had the same problem with 09 plate divvys when they were 6 months old, dealer replaced chains and sprockets on both bikes and no problems since

[Smiley1244]

Hi All, wow loads of responses.

Update so far:

I forget the make of the chain, DD or something like that. I was assured it was a good chain and the engineer who fitted it commented on it without me prompting him so I think it was good.

I double checked the wheel alignment, just by sight I didn't undo anything but it seems fine. Spinning the wheel says no wobble on the tire either.

Checked the tension all around the chain and did find a tight(ish) spot. I estimate that at its tightest spot there is 35-40mm play. The manual says 45-50mm so I raised this with the dealer when I went there after, he didn't seem to think that would be an issue. He also agreed that the chain was indeed going through the same thing again so not me being paranoid.

I raised the issue of the noise again, as after posting I realised I can hear it (just) at 5-6K rpm and beyond although its drowned out by the engine noise. Plus it's still there when I pull the clutch in doing 30mph and letting the engine idle, so not engine noise. One of the guys that works at the dealer took it out and agreed that the noise wasn't normal and might suggest that the rear sprocket bearing is worn causing the sprocket to have play in it. This seems plausible with my limited knowledge on how things work and could indeed cause the chain wear I'm seeing too.

So I'm arranging to put the bike into their engineer next week which is a pain but at least it should be sorted. The dealer was very good about it and seemed a little embarrassed by the issue. Although I detected a little suspicion that it was something I had done / was doing so I took along the chain cleaner I’d been using etc. After all I am new to all this so I thought there might be a chance it may have been me but the engineers seemed to think there was not anything I could be doing while riding the bike to cause it.

Obviously it's going to need a new chain again as this one now has three o-rings protruding. The question now is do I really need to push for a new sprocket if it is the bearing or are they one and the same? It's difficult not having the experience and the confidence to push for something the dealer says is not necessary (and I completly understand why he would say it's not needed if its only prefered, he is after all trying to make a profit).

[Airhead]

if it doesnt need a sprocket there wont be any tight spots when they give it back to you because changing the bearing has fixed it

does this bike have a main stand?

Chain free play is usually quoted with the bike on the side stand not the main stand, the free play gets less with the rider onboard and even less over bumps...thats why you need free play after all...did you check with the bike on the side stand...does the manual state this?

[Smiley1244]

Nope just the side stand. The manual says to measure on the side stand with no weight on the bike.

Hmm I'm not . . .er . . that light so maybe it could do with a bit more slack. I'll emphasize that when it goes in. As you quite rightly said at this point I'll let the dealer do it.

[Cynic]

I would have said 6000 was enough to knaker a sprocket readily enough. Esp with the muppets that think o ring chains dont need much lube.

The bearing playing dead at 6k is dissapointing though.

Have to say i adjust my chain initially by pulling the susp down to full comp with a strap and setting it just slightly off tight.

Then i let the strap off and use that distance as my guide. Relying on the middle of the road dealer settings can be bad landing hard from a road crest or off road jump. Esp if you are packing some spare.

I got 22000 miles out of the last chain and sprocker set (regina) that i bought new and have yet to damage gearbox or carrier bearings.

[Smiley1244]

Bike's going into the engineer tomorrow so lets hope they can find the definetive cause

[Smiley1244]

Hi all, sorry about the delay work has been manic but an update for anyone that's still interested.

Engineer had a look and found out that the rear sprocket carrier was mis-machined by a good few millimetres which was giving the rear sprocket a wobble. He's flattened/removed the excess down on a lathe.

The noise is still there (maybe even louder) but this could be done to the very much now naked second chain. Had a discussion with the dealer today as I've pretty much lost confidence in the bike and may be swapping it maybe for an FZ6

BUT we'll see what the engineer says tomorrow as he's going to take it out again to determine if the noise is the nakered chain or something else. It would be a shame as I much prefer the styling of the XJ and I'd be losing some extras too.

To boot after I'd got the bike back I noticed it was missing one of the chain tensioner plates, hopefully a replacement will be delivered tomorrow?!

My first "big bike" experience is not going as planned!!!

[Grouch]

Just a few teething problems, you'll soon be problem free and riding at 100%!