Rimbaudian Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Hi so this is my first bike and it's a 2008 fuel injection model I bought it about two weeks ago but having been so snowed under with work I've barely touched it whilst I've waited for the registration papers to go through with the DVLA so I could put a new tax disc on it so its been sat outside under a cover for about two weeks in the cold untouched. When it came it had effectively no fuel inside it and I couldn't get it to start and never bothered to refuel it until today as I wouldn't be able to legally drive it without tax anyway. So today I finally got my tax disc and poured in some fuel from a fuel can, I used the electric start and it started with the second push, I turned it off and on again it started again fine too. But then things went a bit awry I think when I knocked it down into 1st gear I can't recall if the bike stalled as a result of that or just too much revving without clutch release but after that the bike had trouble finding neutral again and the neutral light wouldn't come on (so the engine start button wouldn't work) until after about 2 turn off and on again's of the ignition key. But after that the bike would no longer start, I hold down the engine start button and it tries to start but never makes it, I've tried using the kick start but it does next to nothing, I can just hear a slight noise within the bike when I press it down but other than that, nothing. The bike is fine finding neutral at the moment and there is no engine warning light coming on (other than when it shows for the first few seconds of ignition to show it still works) but it just won't start. Well anyway I live in the UK and its too dark and cold to fiddle round with now so I thought i'd post here to get some suggestions for what I should check when I get to working at it tomorrow. When I was at the dealership looking at the bike it started first time and when it was delivered the man delivering it started it fine to park it for me, well anyway that's all I can think of for now, sorry for the convoluted style I just didn't want to miss any relevant details, hopefully some of you guys can help, thanks. Edit: I should also say it passed its MOT only 25 days ago and hasn't been used since then. Also all the lights seemed to work, with the ignition key in the lights on the dashboard work along with the indicators and of the few times I managed to get the engine running the headlights on all strength settings worked so it seems to have enough energy in the battery.
Moderator Airhead Posted November 26, 2011 Moderator Posted November 26, 2011 perhaps you flooded it, take the spark plug out and leave it out overnight (bike covered of course) try again later. Dont forget an intro...good manners and all that!
Moderator Airhead Posted November 26, 2011 Moderator Posted November 26, 2011 by the way ian...you didnt run out of fuel by any chance? is there a reserve position on the tap? charge the battery anyway if you have a charger, always a good bet if prolonged use of an electric starter
Rimbaudian Posted November 26, 2011 Author Posted November 26, 2011 The fuel injection model doesn't have a reserve tap and I put in a couple of litres of fuel as I described in my post. As for a charger I don't own one and since the kick start doesn't work either I'm guessing its not a battery problem? I tried to remove my spark plug only to find there is no owners tool kit in the bike anymore it seems one of the previous owners never sold it on so I don't have any tools to remove the spark plug from what I can see, given it looks like a rather specific tool and I'm a student so all I have is a few spanners. Its Sunday tomorrow as well so I don't think there's much chance of finding one, ugh this is such a nuisance, I'll post an introduction sometime later I've spent so much time thinking about and running errands for this bike today that I've got very little work done so I don't have any more time to spend otherwise at the moment! Thanks for the advice though.
Moderator Airhead Posted November 26, 2011 Moderator Posted November 26, 2011 maybe try a bump start, can you get some friends to give you a push?...2nd gear
Rimbaudian Posted November 26, 2011 Author Posted November 26, 2011 Hah I imagine I could although Its a pretty light bike and my legs are long anyway so I can pretty much push it to a good rolling speed on my own, having googled it though it sounds abit dodgy, what would be the purpose? Edit: actually just watched a youtube tutorial on it, I understand it now, might try it abit later getting abit sick of repeatedly wasting time on it at the moment! Update: Unable to resist temptation I tried to push start it but it didn't seem to work, I put it into 2nd gear and ran with it between my legs quite easily and got it to a decent speed but I'd just release the clutch and then the wheel would lock as a result without starting. I think it almost started randomly at one point when I was idly trying the engine start button but i'd pressed it a few times and wasn't really thinking about it when the engine made a promising sound like it was about to start but I released the button too quick and only realized it was about to start after releasing the button because I wasn't thinking about it, damn it! Ah well if the engine wasn't flooded before I guess it is now, i'll have to leave it till tomorrow hopefully Halfords sell the tool to remove a spark plug? I was also reading fuel injection engines are difficult to push start so that might be the problem in this case.
Moderator Airhead Posted November 27, 2011 Moderator Posted November 27, 2011 nahh you cant just paddle the bike between your legs, there is no 'strength' there...you really need a hill or better still some mates, if 2nd gear always locks the wheel use 3rd. Tip also it,s better to stand on the footrests until the exact point the clutch is released, then sit down with a 'bump' this will give extra grip at the tyre at this instant...and hence the term 'bump start' All this trying to start the bugger has probably washed away the oil from the cylinder and so will result in less compression which will make starting difficult if you can, add about 10cc of oil down the plug hole when you get it out, this will re-seal the piston rings to bore also i think the bump start is your best bet but make sure there is plenty of fuel in the tank
Rimbaudian Posted November 27, 2011 Author Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks for the tips but I have abit of an update, I set off for Halfords today to buy some motor oil and a spark plug removing tool but before setting off on my walk I thought I'd see if the bike would start so I put the key in and it started up on the second push (it would have on the first If I hadn't been dismissive of the possibility of it starting and didn't hold it down long enough) but like an idiot I didn't take advantage of this opportunity I just revved it abit as though I was trying to find the clutch biting point but then I switched it off as it was still on its chain and I was intending to go to Halfords. I went to Halfords and bought some oil, I didn't buy a spark plug tool though as it just seemed like a really over priced socket driver, am I right in thinking this? So i figured i'd just buy one elsewhere tomorrow. When I got back the bike almost started again with the first push of the button but I think i released too soon and although it began to rumble and the head lights came on it went off straight after, I'm almost sure it would have kept alive if i'd held down the starter for another second or so. But after that it's just gone back to not starting again well anyway I figure this is a development worthy of an update, maybe someone can better determine the problem from this? Anyway I'm wasting far too much time fiddling with this thing when I have alot of work to do so I think i'll leave off touching it till tomorrow when hopefully it'll start after an idle night and I'll change the oil and buy a tool to remove and inspect the spark plug and if its still not working I'll try a push start with a friend tomorrow.
Moderator DirtyDT Posted November 27, 2011 Moderator Posted November 27, 2011 As well as drying out the spark plug as OG mentioned, a lot of bikes have a starting characteristic. I don't mean all xxx250's have to be started a particular way but each bike seems to know what it likes to start up easily. Being fuel injected, it means that a choke position is not a consideration. When you start it do you turn the throttle during or before pushing the starter button? I would turn the bike on and push the starter, no throttle at all. if that doesnt work move to a small amount of throttle held in one position, not twisting and I mean small; then I would try full throttle and push the button. The bike should start and idle with no throttle at all to start with but the plug(s) may need a clean first.
Rimbaudian Posted November 27, 2011 Author Posted November 27, 2011 I don't twist the throttle at all it doesn't seem to do anything on this bike. When I was doing my CBT the bike I was using for that required a small amount of throttle as you pushed the start button so I know what you mean but on this bike the throttle doesn't seem to have any effect untill the start button has gotten the engine going already. So yea spark plugs it is, does anyone have any advice on what tool I can use to remove the spark plug, my dad seems to think the socket/screw driver sets you can usually buy from pound shops would work fine?
Moderator DirtyDT Posted November 27, 2011 Moderator Posted November 27, 2011 Different bikes, different size plugs. A clue to what bike it is may help you buy the right one. Most socket sets have one but the size and the type are different depending on access to the plug. My SV has an articulated plug spanner otherwise I wouldn't be able to change the front plug without taking the radiator off. What bike is it????
Moderator DirtyDT Posted November 27, 2011 Moderator Posted November 27, 2011 Damn. YBR. I should learn to read!!!
Moderator Airhead Posted November 27, 2011 Moderator Posted November 27, 2011 depends on the spark plug size, I have no idea what a ybr size is, any motorcycle shops nearby should be able to sort you out, no need for a high tech chrome plated one with bells and whistles, you need to know your plug size...try googling it!
Moderator DirtyDT Posted November 27, 2011 Moderator Posted November 27, 2011 A 2007 YBR needs a 10mm plug spanner I think. Have a look here LINKY for extra help.
Rimbaudian Posted November 27, 2011 Author Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks, I've done alot of googling looking for the plug size but I can find very little information on it I imagine I'll just get a variety of socket sizes and with abit of luck one of them will work! I imagine 10mm is about right from looking at the plug itself and thanks for the link although I already have the manual myself.
Moderator DirtyDT Posted November 27, 2011 Moderator Posted November 27, 2011 2008 = 10mm Like this, apparently LINKY And the 2008 owners manual is here LINKY in case anyone else needs one
Rimbaudian Posted November 28, 2011 Author Posted November 28, 2011 Ok I removed the spark plug today and by the looks of it, it doesn't look too healthy from what i've googled comparatively. The end has gone black with what looks like a coating of dryed oil so I figure i'll order a new spark plug and hopefully that will sort out my problem. The Spark Plug it self is actually a NGK CR7HSA rather than the one the operating manual recommends, a NGK CR6HSA but I imagine this wouldn't really of made a difference? I'll order a CR6HSA anyway. Should I be worried that this problem will repeat itself? From my googling it says that oil on the spark plug might mean an oil leakage? Although it might not be oil just carbon or something, I'm far from a mechanic
Moderator Airhead Posted November 28, 2011 Moderator Posted November 28, 2011 it could be black from all the failed starting attempts, get her going and see how the new one fares
neversaydie Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Just a quick tip, make sure that the plug screws in straight. It should spin in with your fingers upto the washer, then just a tweek with the socket, say a quarter turn. Dont force the plug in if it tightens up well before you get to the washer Easy to cock up, bastard to correct. Good luck with it
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