DT 175 MX 12volt conversion

[NE0]

Yes all the 12v bulbs are just standard car/motorcycle bulbs which makes the conversion worthwhile ........as I've got loads of them!!!

As regards to a relay for the headlight , yes its all possible, i did think about it but i wanted to keep the conversion simple, All this is reversible without any cut wires.

Plus the 12v battery, is not huge and you often don't get something for nothing.

As it is the battery is certainly capable of running the tail light and pilot light, with the occasional indicator and brake light going on, but to take an additional 45w out of it to run the headlight may be too much....the charging circuit keeps it charged with whats used at the moment , it just might not be man enough to keep it charged if the headlight is run from it as well.

That said it might work, it is more work of course: additional wiring, relays etc, but for what it is, the conversion works well enough...(for me anyway) not to bother taking it any further, however, feel free to give it a go.

[busyeddie]

Silly.me, I forgot that it wasnt on the battery. Maybe a relay from the lighting coil? Getting complicated I.know. But my.old man reckons his 400/4 is far better now he has thicker cable and less resistance from the switch gear. Hmmmm.

[nydamon]

Trail tech makes a five wire full wave reg/rec. The fifth wire provides power from the battery only when the engine is running so it would be an ideal headlight connection. I considered using it but am with NEO: The half wave solution works, is simple and not one wire was cut. In addition, I did it for under $100 USD for everything including an LED tail light. The trail tech is about $55.

[Speedshop]

A word of caution with this conversion. We rewind generators and we are seeing A LOT of generators in for rewinds that have badly burnt lighting coils. 2 things seem to be constant, 1) it was an XT, DT or similar converted to 12 volts, 2) the bike had been fitted with a 55/60watt headlamp. I had 4 XT 500s and a DT generator in with toasted generator windings this week alone, all 12 volt converted.

There are 2 ways to convert these bikes, the single phase method shown on the FS1 above seems to cause the most problems, the moped regulator (Neo) the least. We hardly ever got a 6 volt one in for rewind.

My advice is to stay with a smaller headlamp bulb (45/45 max), use LED indicators and use a battery eliminator instead of a battery as these do not draw any current from the generator. A discharged battery can draw 6 amps on it own.

Another thing to watch is there are different versions of the moped regulator, with different pin outs. One poor chap bought a new loom from us after his melted due to this. We had the right type plus a new XT loom.

Just for the record both use a full wave rectifier, the moped regulator uses split AC/DC system which is the easiest to fit as the stock wiring can be left alone. With the single phase version you have to supply the light switch from the DC circuit IE chop the wiring loom. The Moped regulator clips the AC to stop the bulbs blowing.

We're happy to help if you get stuck and have a selection of regulators, patch looms, connectors, bulbs, battery eliminators & batteries that fit the stock housings.

In some cases we can rewind generators with more copper to give reliable 12 volt conversion

[busyeddie]

I ve just bough one of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200815290619?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

How can I test to see if the pin outs are correct?

Cheers

Ed

[Speedshop]

It was one of those short ones that caused the problem. I read somewhere that the type of ignition fitted (DC CDi or AC Cdi) was the way to tell these apart but when I asked the supplier they hadn't got a clue. There is a version of that short unit made in Italy by IDM that seems to work. Some of the Chinese copies are different and cause problems. That is a Chinese one.

We stick with the longer version of that as we've not had a problem with these. Theres a lot of info on the GY6 moped forums as they have as many problems getting the wrong regulator and frying their electrics.

http://www.rexs-speedshop.com/epages/es143131.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es143131/Products/RR12V-1

[NE0]

Thanks for your input speedshop..wise words

I'll repeat an earlier post! for those contemplating the conversion.........

As I said at the very beginning........

Disclaimer. This is what I did to my own bike, I can't be held responsible if you fry your electrics or your own bike if you try repeating it.
It's up to you to satisfy yourself that the advice, solution, method is right for your bike

Of course i never said that ANY Cub 90 regulator would work, I did a quick search on ebay and the right one is often available.....

The combined regulator/ rectifier used is from a HONDA C90 cub G model
4 pin version suitable for a late 80’s. bike. SH570-12 / 6.7 011

[nydamon]

It's best to avoid any knockoff Chinese eBay electronics and use an OEM part. Also anyone know the difference between the SH570-12 and SH570A-12?

[Speedshop]

Here's a little something that works well with the moped regulator.......our 12 volt XT lighting coil. As you can see we strip the winding right down, clean it to remove rust, then its ready for the next stage.

We manufacture new insulation pieces to replace the old red fibreboard that normally falls apart and after 30 years is no longer much of an insulator. The ironcore is wrapped in nomex before dual insulated H class copper wire is wound on.

[DirtyDT]

I thought I would bump this thread back to the top as it is something I have been considering for a while for the TS.

The TS is similar, electrically, to the DT, 2 lighting circuits; lights and; battery/the rest. To complicate matters a little the UK model does not have a regulator (the US one does). The both have rectifiers. Since the rebuild, the bike quickly killed the cheap 6v battery and seems to have boiled it dry. I could fit a simple regulator as the wiring is there for a single wire DT type but thought I might try the "full monty". As with the DT's, the 6 volt battery options are limited as I was looking for a sealed battery a while ago and could not find one.

So I am thinking of 2 options;

1) replace the rectifier with a 6v rectifier/regulator and run a battery eliminator

2) full monty 12v with battery or battery eliminator

Both of these, from what I can see, would require the same wiring so there is a possibility that they can be switched easily between 6v and 12v.

My plan it to look at wiring like so

I have ordered a 12v rec/reg and 12v flasher unit. I have most of the bulbs and now need to decide whether to go for a battery or battery eliminator. Before I do this I will wait for the items to arrive and then see what output I get using an old 12v battery.

As with everything, I don't know if this will work and if you try it yourself, you may destroy something so be warned.

Any comments welcome.

[Speedshop]

I've a DT 400 generator here that also had no regulator as standard. There is so little copper on it I doubt it makes enough power to blow bulbs. I would be careful if the bike didn't have a regulator as the generator is not likely to be powerful enough to provide enough power for a 12 volt conversion.

Thats one regulator pin out, there are others: the Kokusan Denki version of that unit the BATT and GND are reversed, others have the AC on one side and I've seen this reversed with the DC on the opposite side. I've been looking at these units and have found that many are made for mopeds with a 25 watt headlamp bulb. The regulator becomes unstable with increasing load as a result. This even causes problems for owners of the bikes these unit are supposedly made for and burn outs seem common, reading the GY6 forums. There is no way of telling them apart by looking. A multimeter can show if the pins have the same reading when tested but this doesn't ensure correct function or power rating.

I've been considering stocking Italian IDM regulators as these come with a proper data sheet, gauranteed power handling and pin outs. But knowing how people like to find a nice cheap 'bargain' on eBay I haven't invested. The problem is they are much more expensive then the Ling-Long regulators where the data sheets are laughable (one claimed 180 watt rating - no chance).

So far I've found the CG125 Brazil is the same as the C90 unit and seems to cope with the power OK. Good suppliers will know exactly what unit fits which machine and stick with known good units. The problems start with cheap sellers on ebay who just buy consignmnets and hope for the best. I'd avoid anything for a GY6 as I'm sure these 'box movers' pedaling utter rubbish on ebay are the real cause of all the problems GY6 owners experience

This is a Ling-Long one I opened up (£8.00 ebay) - its made of total rubbish (there's a surprise).It looks more like a hand made prototype then a production board. It would run a 25 watt bulb and it was completly unstable with any more then 3 amps drawn on it!

You won't get a good one apart as they are made from specially design components that you can't buy off the shelf, the 'board' is moulded in one piece with all the components built in.

[shntat]

I did one better . I used the generator/starter and crankshaft of a 75 . it is a 12v conversion

[Speedshop]

Thats one hell of a lump of metal mounted on the crank for those tiny main bearings to cope with! Most people go the other way to increase the life of the crank and simplify the electrics!

We had a few in last year for testing, as you can see the rotor is a great big lump of iron!

[steven smith]

i ve been wait years for some one to come up with this ,i fitted a yamaha dt125r front end to my dt175mx to improve braking and suspension, i also fitted a cemoto enduro headlight unit and the origanal clocks would nt fit ,so now ive upgrade to 12v i have entered the wonderfull world of 12v accessories and fitted a trail tech vapor digital speedo which is 12v and works fine and fits nicely,

i,ve been running my dt175mx for 2 years now with a 12v upgrade with no problems what so ever ,not even a blown bulb ,after buying all the parts new to convert to 12v worked out £4 dearer than buying a new 6v battery ,thanks neo

[NE0]

You're more than welcome Steven.

Nice to hear about another "Neo Conversion!"

[kiln]

~~UPDATE~~

2 Years on and the 12v conversion still does its job 100%. Even the battery is still working fine.

Keep up the good work NE0 !!!

This upgrade is as good as the DT itself, it is as if it was born to be 12V

Safe riding everyone

[s900t8v]

hey I am looking at doing this conversion

my ct 175 has 2 coils, lighting/charging coil and a selenium rectifier, 2 wires red/white, no sign of a regulator on the bike. 

I am wanting to go 12v because my 6v battery died and the selenium rectifier has failed. (open circuit both directions), I want to run a 12v tacho and 12v egt/cht probes - I am not particularly fussed abought lighting thats just a perk.

also I am guessing 12v will provide a better spark - do I need to change the coil? did you guys put a ballast resistor in line? 

the cheapest selenium rectifier for 6v I can get is $25

I can get a 12v regulator/rectifier for $3 from ebay 

flasher unit 12v $3 ebay 

bulbs a whole of $10 

Cheap 12v 2a-4a battery $20 

sounds good I just need to know what I should think about regarding spark etc 

considering my bike doesnt have a reg, I assume the lighting coil is too weak, it runs the headlight, taillight, and instrument bulb, I am thinking perhaps I could leave this at 6v and convert the charging circuit to 12v? 

 

 

[s900t8v]

considering my bike doesnt have a reg, I assume the lighting coil is too weak, it runs the headlight, taillight, and instrument bulb...

 

I think I might have got it figured! 

The non CDI stator plates have 2 coils, left = lighting right = charging. the lighting coil is a lower output coil and is unregulated so wont do 12v 

I have a CDI stator plate here with me, the left coil is lighting/charging and the right is CDI. 

the CDI models have the rectifier for charging circuit and regulator for lighting circuit like NE0 meaning that it will do the 12v conversion. 

I will just swap the left coil onto my pre CDI stator plate. It means I can get rid of the right hand coil as the left hand coil does both! then I just do the 12v conversion like everyone else. 

 

I am still umming and arring about CDI as well. maybe I should try it. 

 

[kiln]

...BuMp...

Happy to report that the 12v system is still fully functional after 5+ years 

[The Nerminater]

I have a 1984 French import XT250 6v with a battery thats almost always flat, no indicators and a real poor headlight, virtually non existant out in the unlit countryside roads. I just read your thread Neo and am wondering why there is no mention of swapping the yellow and white wires over so that the battery is charged off the lighting circuit and the headlamp runs off the charging circuit if that kicks out more voltage sooner in the rev range? Wont that mean that the light goes brighter sooner rather than after 3000 rpm?.

Also speedshop, can you rewind my lighting coil? what else would I have to change and at what total cost? and what maximum size of headlight bulb might I realistically be able to run?

 

Thanks if you read this as time seems to have passed slightly since you all wrote this!!!