plain old dave Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I managed to get another one, but I want to make sure this don't happen again. Best way I can explain what happened is for the reader to bring up the e-fische of the 1978 XS400E kickstarter at yamaha-motor.com. Part 13, split where it goes around Part 11. Accordingly, as the kick lever itself wasn't properly attached to its base, I couldn't kickstart the bike. Please don't try and tell me to bump start the bike as after 18 years of riding I have concluded that bump starting a cold bike is as much an urban legend as getting a bike on a center stand with only one person. I found a billet kickstarter for a Ring Ding (RD) at this link: http://www.hvccycle.com/Kickstarter.htm Questions: 1) Will this work on the base I have? 2) Would I be better off getting a local machine shop to make me one up out of a much heavier duty metal than whatever cast stuff Yamaha used? 3) My bike doesn't have an electric leg and I really don't trust them anyway. I cut my riding teeth on a Harley and never even heard of a broke kickstarter. Is this common, uncommon or did I just hit the lottery o' broke parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted August 7, 2009 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2009 never had any probs with mine except for wear on the spindle. a lot of riders jab at the kickstart which will put an undue strain asthe slack gets taken up. I'm sure if its done properly there would be no issues. maybe a previous owner misused it? not sure about the hvc stuff, but very expensive!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plain old dave Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 a lot of riders jab at the kickstart which will put an undue strain asthe slack gets taken up. Define 'jab at the kickstart'. I have to use the entire stroke to reliably start the bike cold, and even warm only using the part of the stroke that has resistance works more often than not. Bottom line: the only way I have found to reliably start this bike is to use the entire stroke. Before you ask, the points and condenser are new, the carbs are recently rebuilt and the float level is right, the plugs are less than 6 months old and the only ignition parts that aren't new are the wires and coils. I am getting good reliable spark so those can't be the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted August 8, 2009 Moderator Share Posted August 8, 2009 Define 'jab at the kickstart'. I have to use the entire stroke to reliably start the bike cold, and even warm only using the part of the stroke that has resistance works more often than not. Bottom line: the only way I have found to reliably start this bike is to use the entire stroke. Before you ask, the points and condenser are new, the carbs are recently rebuilt and the float level is right, the plugs are less than 6 months old and the only ignition parts that aren't new are the wires and coils. I am getting good reliable spark so those can't be the issue. what i meant was take up the slack and feel a little resistance, then swing. some folk just put a foot on the kick and wack it through putting undue strain on the system. the cg125 i got had a snapped kicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plain old dave Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 what i meant was take up the slack and feel a little resistance, then swing. some folk just put a foot on the kick and wack it through putting undue strain on the system. the cg125 i got had a snapped kicker. Uh, that's the way a kickstarter is SUPPOSED to work (Place foot on lever, kick HARD). Apparently the XS400 kickstarter isn't designed to be USED regularly. "Put a foot on the kick and wack it through" is EXACTLY how Harley people with non-electric bikes start 'em and I have never even HEARD of a broke H-D kicker. I have tried what you're talking about, and as I said it works more often than not if the bike's hot, but cold all I get is sweaty and tired. However, if I use all the travel of the lever she'll take after 2-4 good hard kicks. Nevertheless, I'll try what you're saying (swing 'er down til one of the pistons starts movin then try and kick without relieving pressure on the lever) in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XS 500 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Uh, that's the way a kickstarter is SUPPOSED to work (Place foot on lever, kick HARD). Apparently the XS400 kickstarter isn't designed to be USED regularly. "Put a foot on the kick and wack it through" is EXACTLY how Harley people with non-electric bikes start 'em and I have never even HEARD of a broke H-D kicker. I have tried what you're talking about, and as I said it works more often than not if the bike's hot, but cold all I get is sweaty and tired. However, if I use all the travel of the lever she'll take after 2-4 good hard kicks. Nevertheless, I'll try what you're saying (swing 'er down til one of the pistons starts movin then try and kick without relieving pressure on the lever) in the morning. Uhh, I surely hope there is a misunderstanding here... Atleast the Yamaha kickstarts I have tried has been NO resistance AT ALL down a couple of centimeters or maybe half the swing, then there is a little resistance, there I kick. I do not press down until I feel the pistons is almost at the top and then kick. But I surely take up the slack as Drewpy says, otherwise it hurts in my leg and feet even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Welch Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Uh, that's the way a kickstarter is SUPPOSED to work (Place foot on lever, kick HARD). Apparently the XS400 kickstarter isn't designed to be USED regularly. "Put a foot on the kick and wack it through" is EXACTLY how Harley people with non-electric bikes start 'em and I have never even HEARD of a broke H-D kicker. I have tried what you're talking about, and as I said it works more often than not if the bike's hot, but cold all I get is sweaty and tired. However, if I use all the travel of the lever she'll take after 2-4 good hard kicks. Nevertheless, I'll try what you're saying (swing 'er down til one of the pistons starts movin then try and kick without relieving pressure on the lever) in the morning. That's got something wrong then as mine starts with almost always a single kick the way drewpy describes hot or cold unless it's been sitting a while and I forget to put it on prime first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up.yours Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 only expearenced broken teeth on my japs{no not in my mouth B4 you ask} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator mervin Posted August 11, 2009 Moderator Share Posted August 11, 2009 that looks very much the same as the Rd ones you can get new pattern ones from yambits in the UK ebay yambits kickstart merv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plain old dave Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 that looks very much the same as the Rd ones you can get new pattern ones from yambits in the UK ebay yambits kickstart merv I have seen this 'pattern' ref in British stuff before. What the Sam Hill's a "pattern"? I had always thought that a pattern was the very first of something that was made; Serial Number 001, if you will. Looking at the link, though, based on the price it looks like an aftermarket reproduction. Just wonder if that one would let go, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Welch Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I have seen this 'pattern' ref in British stuff before. What the Sam Hill's a "pattern"? I had always thought that a pattern was the very first of something that was made; Serial Number 001, if you will. Looking at the link, though, based on the price it looks like an aftermarket reproduction. Just wonder if that one would let go, too... I don't know about the replacement parts, but on my 80, the original kickstart broke before 14,400 miles (which is when *I* got it). It's had the same replacement kickstart since then, which is NOT an XS400 kickstart, maybe an RD one I think? As mentioned before, I have NEVER used full stroke with it, always take it down till there is some resistance and then push it through. Unless I screw up, it always starts by the second kick this way, and yes if I screw up it can take 11 or 12 kicks. I also put ALL my bikes on the center stand by myself regularly AND have bump started ALL of them cold at least once in the time I have had them. A properly tuned bike should start with one or two kicks and be able to be bump started even when cold. Having worked with mechanicals much of my life I have learned that the fastest way to break something is to slam against it without taking up the slack first (much like a clutch, the tranny will take far more power applied without breaking if you get the clutch starting to engage before dropping it the rest of the way, as if you don't, things can get moving pretty well before everything gets the slack out of it, which transmits a LOT more shock to the drivetrain.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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