Are they taking the mick?

[Cynic]

Well trading Standards agree that I have a case. So does my brief.

I forgot to mention that, for 10 years, I headed a legal department of a national company handling such cases. I know my way around the legal system and can easily take them to small claims court.

If anyone else has a similar problem I urge them to push and contact Trading Standards. They are impartial and will assist you.

Lets not forget, you pay for goods and services in good faith. Any work paid for has a guarantee also so if,like Paulwhite, who had work done, his engine blew and he could prove it was down to the shoddy work he had done, he to could take it further and seek compensation.

So.......wheels are in motion!

Now were talking, my tactic was (albeit with nissan) to calmly enter the store then tell the most important person i could collar in a clear voice my problems with their nice shiny new car. I did not swear curse or accuse just stated the facts. It cleared the showroom of potential customers and my car was fixed at no cost within the hour.

Keep us posted this will be interesting.

By the way the car has not missed a beat since in 8 years and 80 odd thousand miles.

[Rich_B]

Come on dude, where is this no good dealer? Name and Shame!!!!!

[Rayne]

I don’t want to name and shame as this could affect the outcome.

There has been a development, and one that was sooooo predictable.

I have been contacted by one of the Directors of the Dealership who apologises for the length of time etc and says another new part has to be ordered yet again.

He also says that, seeing as how the bike was not purchased from them but from another dealer, they are not obliged to actually carry out the work. So, they have halted all work until I give them the go ahead (in other words they will finish it when they finish and I have to wait) or I can collect the bike (presumably in bits as they have allegedly been working on it to find all these problems) and take it to the original dealer (which is a long way away) or I can deal with Yamaha direct and have them repair it.

Yamaha state that for a warranty claim you have to take it to a dealer who will inspect the bike, assess it and if needed make a claim on your behalf. I can not deal with Yamaha directly but, the bike is that bad a shape, maybe they should fix it now and I can pursue the dealer separately.

In essence, they dealer is saying wait until we are ready or come and collect the bike in bits. It was ridden to the dealers and had a slight engine knock. Now it seems that the bike has a multitude of problems that needs many, many parts to fix.

So, what would you do now and, once again, am I being unreasonable in my requests. Due to the high volumes of people reading this topic, Yamaha and the dealer are not doing them selves any favours are they.

[Cynic]

I don’t want to name and shame as this could affect the outcome.

There has been a development, and one that was sooooo predictable.

I have been contacted by one of the Directors of the Dealership who apologises for the length of time etc and says another new part has to be ordered yet again.

He also says that, seeing as how the bike was not purchased from them but from another dealer, they are not obliged to actually carry out the work. So, they have halted all work until I give them the go ahead (in other words they will finish it when they finish and I have to wait) or I can collect the bike (presumably in bits as they have allegedly been working on it to find all these problems) and take it to the original dealer (which is a long way away) or I can deal with Yamaha direct and have them repair it.

Yamaha state that for a warranty claim you have to take it to a dealer who will inspect the bike, assess it and if needed make a claim on your behalf. I can not deal with Yamaha directly but, the bike is that bad a shape, maybe they should fix it now and I can pursue the dealer separately.

In essence, they dealer is saying wait until we are ready or come and collect the bike in bits. It was ridden to the dealers and had a slight engine knock. Now it seems that the bike has a multitude of problems that needs many, many parts to fix.

So, what would you do now and, once again, am I being unreasonable in my requests. Due to the high volumes of people reading this topic, Yamaha and the dealer are not doing them selves any favours are they.

Sounds like he's trying to muddy the waters here a bit. Unless i've gone a bit dim of late (no comments please) by taking your bike to bits they have accepted to put your bike right. . It doesent have to be the supplying dealer. That should have been pointed out from the start if that was the case, he has taken your bike to bits for a warranty inspection and therefore is obligated to complete the work. Or at the very least return it to you in its original condition.

I think the dealer is panicing, he can see the direction this is going, and its going to hurt the dealership in the end. There is the press for starters. This is the kind of thing MCN would have a sniff around. Bet that would have him spilling his coffee.

Obviously the trading standards and citizens advice get dragged into the loop.

I can sympathise with your pain, i bought a P38 Range Rover (Mk2 if you like) and the engine started going through water real fast, within weeks the engine let go thankfully close to home. The warranty company blamed ME for not maintaining the vehicle as vehicles 'obviously' need the oil,water etc checked so therefore i was negligent, £3000 that cost to fix, in PARTS with me twirling the spanners.

I have always found going to the top works. Even stuff like contacting them for progress reports at EXACTLY the same time every day is remarkably effective. They end up dreading the phone ringing.

The bike having a mechanical, fair enough. Yamaha relying on their dealers to sort it, understandable if not desirable but the dealer is messing about and needs sorting.

[Rayne]

There was a contract entered into as soon as they accepted the bike and agreed to conduct the inspection and work so they have shot themselves in the foot. That is what the 1982 act is for.

But, by trying to put it back on Yamaha's doorstep, well that’s a big mistake.

Trading standards, the press, watchdog and the whole legal profession say that they are in the wrong legally and morally.

I am in contact with a very nice lady at Yamaha customer services but this is going way higher than that I’m afraid. Yamaha, the dealer or both are at fault. It’s up to the law to decipher which.

I know who I put the fault with but its not going to be my call.

[barkwindjammer]

Rayne

;

I am in contact with a very nice lady at Yamaha customer services

Oh, have you any nice pics ?

[Paulwhite]

Well trading Standards agree that I have a case. So does my brief.

I forgot to mention that, for 10 years, I headed a legal department of a national company handling such cases. I know my way around the legal system and can easily take them to small claims court.

If anyone else has a similar problem I urge them to push and contact Trading Standards. They are impartial and will assist you.

Lets not forget, you pay for goods and services in good faith. Any work paid for has a guarantee also so if,like Paulwhite, who had work done, his engine blew and he could prove it was down to the shoddy work he had done, he to could take it further and seek compensation.

So.......wheels are in motion!

thats a bit tricky cause it was down to the oil not being chainged but i was told they would do that on the service ....so i never botherd and it was due for a service at the time plus it was about a year ago when it happened so i might have a problem there

[JimR]

I don’t want to name and shame as this could affect the outcome.

There has been a development, and one that was sooooo predictable.

I have been contacted by one of the Directors of the Dealership who apologises for the length of time etc and says another new part has to be ordered yet again.

He also says that, seeing as how the bike was not purchased from them but from another dealer, they are not obliged to actually carry out the work. So, they have halted all work until I give them the go ahead (in other words they will finish it when they finish and I have to wait) or I can collect the bike (presumably in bits as they have allegedly been working on it to find all these problems) and take it to the original dealer (which is a long way away) or I can deal with Yamaha direct and have them repair it.

Yamaha state that for a warranty claim you have to take it to a dealer who will inspect the bike, assess it and if needed make a claim on your behalf. I can not deal with Yamaha directly but, the bike is that bad a shape, maybe they should fix it now and I can pursue the dealer separately.

In essence, they dealer is saying wait until we are ready or come and collect the bike in bits. It was ridden to the dealers and had a slight engine knock. Now it seems that the bike has a multitude of problems that needs many, many parts to fix.

So, what would you do now and, once again, am I being unreasonable in my requests. Due to the high volumes of people reading this topic, Yamaha and the dealer are not doing them selves any favours are they.

Hi

just a thought what actually went wrong with the bike ?? As you are a 'legal eagle' I would guess you dont need any input as you would have it all sewn up. But I will add years ago when Yamaha's after sales process was set up the would endevour to be the best in the industry in this area ... in fact they replaced bits I would have not .... anyone with an RD125LC will know this one ... belly pan with stone chips... Other things to take into account :-

Miss Diagnosis (not YMUK's fault - Dealer Fault).

Extra claims submited to YMUK through the miss diagnosis

The ablity to supply the parts within a reasonable time ... a back order may take some time and if the part on your machine has an unusual fail rate i.e Yamaha NV don't need to stock it & its coming from Japan. This is a little hard work out where the failing is .... you have not said what failed and what time scale YMUK gave for the supply of the parts... In the old days Mitsui would have said give the boy a bike & add it to the claim .... but I guess you just have it in for Yamaha through your Dealer .... perhaps phone Andrew Smith (if you can get through) and relate your problems ... while your at it just say Jim from Worcester wants a chat !!!

Regards Jim

[Rayne]

Jim, all comments are welcome as I asked for advice at the beggining of the post.

Well, got the bike back on Saturday. The manager said it had a new crank and cylinder head. The side stand switch STILL doesnt work and I asked for this to be done at the same time.

The bike still seems ropey. theres no top end and the manager said that it wont do much more than 65mph..... err wrong!!

So, its time to push on and see what happens from here. Some one is to blame for the delays so we will see who points the finger at who.

Four and a half weeks is rediculously long.

[vic-fzr600]

Definately worth pushing the case.

My sis-in-law bought a new Vauxhall Corsa last year, had a persistant problem with the brakes.

Similar story with dealer, 'we fixed it' - no u didn't, 'we fitted new parts' - no you didn't, etc.

End result was solicitors letters to vauxhall Uk & lots of phone calls to them - end result was a replacement car and apology.

Just takes one crappy dealer full of muppet staff to spoil a new purchase experience.

DONT BACK DOWN!!!

[JimR]

Jim, all comments are welcome as I asked for advice at the beggining of the post.

Well, got the bike back on Saturday. The manager said it had a new crank and cylinder head. The side stand switch STILL doesnt work and I asked for this to be done at the same time.

The bike still seems ropey. theres no top end and the manager said that it wont do much more than 65mph..... err wrong!!

So, its time to push on and see what happens from here. Some one is to blame for the delays so we will see who points the finger at who.

Four and a half weeks is rediculously long.

Hi Rayne

I would be interested to know what was fitted (the total parts count & description) from the 2 parts fitted (crank & cylinder head) I would guess some work has been done to the cylinder also (I guess you had a total engine melt down) was a new one fitted (cylinder & piston) or was the old one remanufactured (rebored) ? If bored you may find the the piston clearence/tolerence is somewhat tighter than factory which will make the bike run different (ropey) until the engine wears to a clearence close to the original.

Having a New head fitted would also indicate new valves there is a point that the valves have not been seated correctly (ground in) against the valve seats, which in time (carbon build up) may be ok unless its an intake valve(s).

I do hope the dealer worked out what caused such major parts to fail in such a short time (hence the fitted parts list so I could work out what failed), but from what you are saying the rebuild problems are more likley to be a dealer issue rather than a Yamaha issue. In the past when diagnosing such faults I would order every part from Yamaha that I felt was needed to repair the engine to the degree of perhaps ordering parts that were not required (just belt & braces), but on the other hand if the dealer did not order everything required to rebuild the engine they would have to submit another claim for that part, which would go through the same paperwork trail as the original claim.

In English the mechanic forgot to order a part and had to make an extra claim which would double the claim time so I would guess the problem lies with the dealer.

Regards Jim

[Rayne]

Cheers Jim.

I have written to Yamaha to ask for a timescale of what parts were ordered, when they were ordered and when they were delivered. I have also asked them why the side stand switch is still not working as per the original inspection, why the bike struggles to hit 70mph downhill and why a bike under a year old, less than 2000 miles on the clock and ridden extremely carefully can cock up in such a big fashion?

Surely it would have been much easier and cheaper to have replaced the engine?

Seeing as these bikes cost £3700 new I would have thought that they would not want the bad publicity or the loss of sales over a poor dealer or one rogue bike? They have definitely lost custom over this and the word about the dealer is spreading fast.

By the way..... I'm in my forties, definitely not a boy racer and only way 11 stone so the bike has not been thrashed.

I did my home work before I bought this bike and talked to a lot of people who said the bikes were of good quality, the after sales was good and the dealers were good.

I would not recommend the R125 to anyone and as for the dealerships....... to tell some to collect the bike (presumably in bits) when they have agreed to complete the works (thus entering into a contract) is beyond belief!

It may not be Yamaha's fault but I want to know who is at fault and why the qualty of the bike is so poor.

I can then take the appropriate steps.

[JimR]

Cheers Jim.

I have written to Yamaha to ask for a timescale of what parts were ordered, when they were ordered and when they were delivered. I have also asked them why the side stand switch is still not working as per the original inspection, why the bike struggles to hit 70mph downhill and why a bike under a year old, less than 2000 miles on the clock and ridden extremely carefully can cock up in such a big fashion?

Surely it would have been much easier and cheaper to have replaced the engine?

Seeing as these bikes cost £3700 new I would have thought that they would not want the bad publicity or the loss of sales over a poor dealer or one rogue bike? They have definitely lost custom over this and the word about the dealer is spreading fast.

By the way..... I'm in my forties, definitely not a boy racer and only way 11 stone so the bike has not been thrashed.

I did my home work before I bought this bike and talked to a lot of people who said the bikes were of good quality, the after sales was good and the dealers were good.

I would not recommend the R125 to anyone and as for the dealerships....... to tell some to collect the bike (presumably in bits) when they have agreed to complete the works (thus entering into a contract) is beyond belief!

It may not be Yamaha's fault but I want to know who is at fault and why the qualty of the bike is so poor.

I can then take the appropriate steps.

Hi Rayne,

Yamaha didn't supply engines (in my day & perhaps it is still true today) only parts so any warrenty work I did was a claim for all the parts required ... in the 80's I had an XJ550 which had a gearbox explode poking various holes in the crankcases, totaling the clutch & primary drive. The retail cost of the parts fitted to that engine was over ½ the total purchase price of the bike I did take up engine supply but Mitsui said the paper work was fed back to the factory for research purposes if an engine was supplied they would have no clue as to what componet failed as the broken parts are left to the dealer to dispose of. Your dealer should have submitted another claim for the switch as that failure is unrelated to the engine failure ... they could have gone in the same envelope (email today I guess) and as long as the claim was upheld the part duly delivered this agian points to the dealer & not YMUK (unless YMUK could not supply the parts). good job asking for the list of parts claimed for & the time scale. With the list of parts fitted it will become apparent how the engine failed and if your dealer has fitted enough in order for the engine to be returned to a condition that it would have been in before the failure.

You may also find it's not the quality of the bike at fault just the quality of the dealer (could be argued he is YMUK's representitive) as perhaps the original failure may have been due to incorrect service ?

Regards Jim

[Rayne]

It now transpires that Yamaha are taking an eternity to answer a letter of complaint.

Absolutely brilliant arent they.

[JimR]

It now transpires that Yamaha are taking an eternity to answer a letter of complaint.

Absolutely brilliant arent they.

Hi Rayne,

thats par for the course ... your letter will bounce around a few departments and ultimmatly to Andy Smith's in tray ... there after a copy of your letter will be sent to the dealer concerened to comment on, at this point something will happen... but if the dealer drags his feet .... who knows of the reply time

Regards Jim

[Rayne]

Hi Rayne,

thats par for the course ... your letter will bounce around a few departments and ultimmatly to Andy Smith's in tray ... there after a copy of your letter will be sent to the dealer concerened to comment on, at this point something will happen... but if the dealer drags his feet .... who knows of the reply time

Regards Jim

Who is this Andy Smith Jim?

[JimR]

Who is this Andy Smith Jim?

Hi Rayne

Andy Smith is the M.D of YMUK when I first met him he worked at a promotions company from Ludlow from there moved to being a Yamaha sales rep then onwards up through the company to MD

have a look here http://londonbikers.com/news/2596/yamaha-m...d-prix-uk-final

Regards Jim

[Rayne]

Hi Rayne

Andy Smith is the M.D of YMUK when I first met him he worked at a promotions company from Ludlow from there moved to being a Yamaha sales rep then onwards up through the company to MD

have a look here http://londonbikers.com/news/2596/yamaha-m...d-prix-uk-final

Regards Jim

Got you now Jim.

Lets hope he can provide some answers and get to the bottom of it all. The bike still isnt performing. Extremely lacking in top end, the side stand switch still doesnt work and it feels rough to ride.

These bikes are not cheap so you would expect them to last a little longer than 2000 miles before all of these problems.

I do hope they do not try to say the bike has been thrashed as it most certainly has not!

[JimR]

Got you now Jim.

Lets hope he can provide some answers and get to the bottom of it all. The bike still isnt performing. Extremely lacking in top end, the side stand switch still doesnt work and it feels rough to ride.

These bikes are not cheap so you would expect them to last a little longer than 2000 miles before all of these problems.

I do hope they do not try to say the bike has been thrashed as it most certainly has not!

Hi Rayne,

can you explain what exactly went wrong with the bike

Regards Jim

[Rayne]

Hi Rayne,

can you explain what exactly went wrong with the bike

Regards Jim

Well, it developed a bit of what I can only describe as a slight knocking sound. I know it doesn’t have tappets but it was akin to that (similar to an old car when the tappets are goosed). The side stand switch stopped working and the bike lacked power on the top end. It could accelerate but once it reached 58 or 59 MPH it would not go any faster unless it was down hill. It would (and still will) only reach nearly 70 mph on a long steep hill.

The dealer tells me it had a new crank and head and all that goes with that. They were not very helpful when I picked the bike up so I am unsure as to exactly what the problem was.

The bike was ridable but sluggish before I took it to the dealer for inspection. Now the bike is ridable, still sluggish and a bit grindy (?). The side stand switch does not work still.

So, what do you think Jim?

What annoys the most is the fact that the build quality is second to none and the aesthetics are superb. I don’t know if I was just unlucky and got a bad bike or the fact that the length of time it took to fix has made me very bitter or are they susceptible to breaking down a lot? They are by far the best looking 125 I have ever seen but now feel as though my money has been wasted. I bought Yamaha for the reliability factor as well s the looks and size of the bike.

These bikes are not cheap compared to bigger bikes and you would expect the odd one to be a little off. Having said that, if it required that much work to be carried out after less than 2000 miles and very carefully ridden, it does not fill me with confidence for the future and would think extremely hard before recommending them to anyone else.