bornard Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Let me start by declaring myself a boring old fart. Thank you. I realise its unusual to do cbt at age 46 and to have never owned a petrol powered machine before, but I have cycled all my life and can drive a car (just never needed to buy one), so I believe I have a modicum of road sense. I think that's what got me through the cbt really, once out on the road I started to settle down. Previously in the cbt I'd proven myself expert at riding into cones and almost into the instructor. Also very good at stalling and almost dropping the bike (almost breaking my leg). My fellow trainees were all half my age or so and much more competent, they'd all ridden geared bikes before. My only previous biking experience was of a rented scooter in Corfu (which I was lucky to survive). The instructor was patient and kind, kept telling me I was doing well, considering age, inexperience ... Although I managed on the road I stalled about four times and rarely remembered to switch off the indicator light. I was surprised to get a pass. Utterly possessed by my inner child I went out the very next day and put a deposit on a 2008 ybr 125, for no other reason than it was there and it looked nice and I could just about afford it. A week later I went to collect it and rode it home, a five mile run through the outskirts of Newcastle. Two wheelies, several stalls, rubbish clutch and throttle control. A month later I feel much safer on the bike, love riding it even, but I can't help thinking I shouldn't really have been allowed to go out and buy this machine without more extensive training. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of yet more health and safety madness, in fact I want less. I just worry slightly about the scenario of a slightly younger dafter me passing cbt and killing myself/others. Most bike accidents happen within the first two months of riding. I'm not surprised. Don't know what the answer is, but I would suggest an extended cbt, perhaps three four hour sessions, riding at least three different bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild foamy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 we all have to start somewhere, whilst the CBT is very basic it helps keep a lot of us younger riders safe. there are further training programs such as "BikeSafe" which can further help your safety. a bit of experiance goes a long way on the road though, and i perosnally think there would be LESS accidents if us young'ens on 50cc bikes could ride something bigger at 16 so we can keep up with the traffic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cov_AL Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The CBT is Compulsory Basic Training It's very rare for someone to "fail" as it's not really a test... Although If the instructor thinks you are going to be unsafe they can ask you to come back for another days training. It's more of a permission to learn to ride, as you can't have someone sit next to you like you can in a car. It was introduced as a means of reducing accidents on the road caused by inexperienced drivers - this it has done. Learner car drivers stall, forget their indicators and are (imho) as much of a danger to other road users if not more... I did my CBT about 4 years ago and passed my full bike test (direct access) over two years ago - and I'm still learning -but it all comes with experiance... As for learning on a 50cc/125cc - I felt SO much safer when I got a more powerful bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwell1992 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I for one can safely say the CBT is a joke i dident even know how to get round a island after i did myn i was a danger to me and every thing around me but have been riding for over a year now and im doing my proper test in may and to be honest all i have done over the last year is get in to bad habits like riding flat out at 55mph (twist and go) im now 17 and i can see y my insurance was so high the newer lads on ther mompeds just try andrace you at any posible moment.... im my opinion they should be made to do a full test and be alowed to get on 125cc becasue 50cc are dangerous especialy on buissy roads sorry for the rant but im geting anoyed and the way the goverment seems to alow some right Twats on the road that dont have a clue what they are doing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator mervin Posted April 20, 2009 Moderator Share Posted April 20, 2009 more training than i ever had the CBT" theres ya keys lad theres the bike take care bye" Merv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas up - Let's Go! Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 .......but I can't help thinking I shouldn't really have been allowed to go out and buy this machine without more extensive training........ ....... Don't know what the answer is, im geting anoyed and the way the goverment seems to alow some right Twats on the road that dont have a clue what they are doing...... bornard is bang on, but the answer is plainly simple. People shouldn't be allowed out on the roads with nothing but a day's basic training, why should they ? They aren't in a car ??? Personally, I think everyone should have to pass a test to ride solo. It shows you have a basic level of ability to ride on the road, but it's just an invitation to improve, not a certification you can ride. All about attitude - the twats on the scooters are just that, and they shouldn't be on the road. There are lots of guys out there who ride 500 and 125 machines perfectly well, and I would suggest that these guys wouldn't have a problem in passing a test. HM Goverment have got it wrong, small capacity tests should be introduced, with some kind of financial trade in for the guys who want to go on and ride bigger, more powerfull machines. Licences should have a set life too, so you need to site a re-test/assesment after say 10 years. I'm sick of hearing "I've had my licence since before you were out of nappies" etc etc, if you really are a good rider/driver then you'll have no problem passing an assesment, will you ?? PS - for anyone who's had thier bike test passed for over 10 years, have you tried any basic motorcycle control lately? just like the stuff in the CBT ?? go on, have a go - I think a few might suprise themselves...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild foamy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Gas Up - i would imagine its a bit harder doing tight turns with a 900 than it is on a ped... need to go play with my 350 for a while i think... just sit on it in the shed making noises and leaning over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDtr08 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 we all have to start somewhere, whilst the CBT is very basic it helps keep a lot of us younger riders safe. there are further training programs such as "BikeSafe" which can further help your safety. a bit of experiance goes a long way on the road though, and i perosnally think there would be LESS accidents if us young'ens on 50cc bikes could ride something bigger at 16 so we can keep up with the traffic... There are other training schemes yes, but the people that are likely to go on these training schemes arent the 16 year old Burberry wearing morons, who ride on pavements and spend their whole time braggin about who has the lightest rollers in the auto clutches! My dad was allowed to just get on a bike on his 16th birthday and go off riding as he used to tell me when i was learning. This didnt mean that he did. He used to go to a motorcycle training school every sunday and practice clutch control and safe riding practices all day. Personally i cant think of a nicer way to spend a sunday afternoon for a 15 year old who loves to be on 2 wheels. In effect thats a CBT a week for 6 weeks before he got on the road. But from what i hear from Dad and his old school mates at reunions, after a beer or 2! There was such a thing as responsibilty back then, Yes people would burn up and down the roads on bikes with no exhuasts just to find out what it would sound like, but atleast they'd wear helmets and do it sensibly. Unlike the "chavs" on peds that like to fit air filters and slip on silencers to their bikes in an attempt to reach 40 mph. My first bike was a suzuki ts50x. I walked it up to the CBT place on my 16th birthday after months of riding around the drive and Sainsburys cark park on a sunday evening after it closed. I did my 6-7 hours of "training", all of which i had been taught by my dad withing the 1st couple of sessions at sainsburys. I stalled my bike a number of times on the road ride, later found out to be due to the tick over being too low (ha not my fault ). Aswell as this, the other kid on his CBT with us on the road, dropped the ped whilst attempting a U turn in an empty road. He was still allowed to ride away from the training school and be on the road for 2 years. SCHOCKING! i only know of one person to not get the certificate. A friend was expecting a 50cc scooter and decided to not metnion it when he was put on a 125 geared honda, he promptly let go of the clutch and stacked the bike into a brick wall, writing it off..... Im currently (supposed to be ) writing an essay, alas procrastination has set in! If only i could burst out this amount of words about the subject i should be concetrating on! My main point is to agree that the current CBT is not enough to be allowed on the road for 2 years, ive now done 2 as i didnt feel the need to move up to a bigger bike and i am in love with the dt125's. My 2nd CBT started at 10am.....the instructor followed me for 5 minutes as we left the test centre and then i just tagged along for and hour whilst he tried to help a woman who was going for her full license, shake the nerves and get some road practice in. By 12:30 i was blatting around the town again, 75 quid poorer . If you ask me there should be number of seperate traingin days that build up to form a license. Say 1 for Clutch control, 1 manouvering, etc etc with them all being checked on the last day during a road ride. May cost more, but then without it you've got more chance of breaking yourself, or even worse YOUR BIKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas up - Let's Go! Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Gas Up - i would imagine its a bit harder doing tight turns with a 900 than it is on a ped... No, it's much much easier on a big bike. The single cylinder motor isn't anywhere near as smooth. I can get the XJR1300 to turn on itself all day long! The Tenere is a different beast and require lots on concentration and weight shifting (being a big single). When you move to a 500 for your pre-test training you will be amazed at the difference! One thing the small bike are good at though, it's cornering, you learn much better on a bike with tyres as wide as a box of fags (sorry, smokes - not a box full of homobloko's dressed as Kylie), than you do on a bike with big fat rubber bands enough to sit a small ship on. Horses for courses. Trouble is, those that are willing to train - will, twats will just move on to something else, or do it anyway! I had a twat try to race me away from the lights, by cutting me up, a few weeks ago. Still got his ignition key in my jacket pocket!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cov_AL Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I for one, was happy with my CBT. Before that day the only thing I had ridden was an old moped on some fields for about half an hour when I was 13. Perhaps I just had a better instructor? http://www.motag.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosdyke Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The instructor was patient and kind, kept telling me I was doing well, considering age, inexperience ... Although I managed on the road I stalled about four times and rarely remembered to switch off the indicator light. I was surprised to get a pass. Sorry but it sounds to me that the fault is with your training school, not the CBT itself. After a number of 'false starts' with riding and 2 CBT's I can honestly say that the two rider training schools who I did it with would not have issued you with a certificate for riding like that! On my first CBT we had one candidate who did not get to do the road part of the training because the instructors did not think they were ready and committed none of the errors you describe. Training is only as good as the person who is giving it, and without checking the quality of training it is difficult to ensure that all training centres work to the same standards, and inevitably, and sadly there will be some that cut corners. I would like an extension of the CBT to allow older/more experienced and competent riders to be allowed on the road on bigger bikes as experience on these will be crucial to passing your full test, and I think make better, safer riders - but that's my soapbox, and I am getting off it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwell1992 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 i think we should be made to do out cbt on a gear bike and not twist and goes that way if we so wish to have a twist and go we should be a bit more up to speck and more aware because of less things to do if you get what i mean lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDtr08 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Sorry but it sounds to me that the fault is with your training school, not the CBT itself. After a number of 'false starts' with riding and 2 CBT's I can honestly say that the two rider training schools who I did it with would not have issued you with a certificate for riding like that! On my first CBT we had one candidate who did not get to do the road part of the training because the instructors did not think they were ready and committed none of the errors you describe. Training is only as good as the person who is giving it, and without checking the quality of training it is difficult to ensure that all training centres work to the same standards, and inevitably, and sadly there will be some that cut corners. I would like an extension of the CBT to allow older/more experienced and competent riders to be allowed on the road on bigger bikes as experience on these will be crucial to passing your full test, and I think make better, safer riders - but that's my soapbox, and I am getting off it now! Granted, training is only as good as the trainer, but there obviously isnt a tick box style list that stops incompetent people from getting on the bikes. We're saying tha the CBT is inadequete due to the large numbers of injuries and fatalities between young people on 50cc and 125cc bikes after "passing" the CBT. If the instructors are allowed to give the certificates to people that dont deserve it then it seems that its at their discression. Whether your strict or not 6 hours training on a machine that can kill anyone in an instant isnt enough..... Statistics show it. A guy that i knew through high school, on a ped ended up in a box with a broken neck a few years ago. Im adamant that if he had had more training he'd still be alive....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwell1992 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Granted, training is only as good as the trainer, but there obviously isnt a tick box style list that stops incompetent people from getting on the bikes. We're saying tha the CBT is inadequete due to the large numbers of injuries and fatalities between young people on 50cc and 125cc bikes after "passing" the CBT. If the instructors are allowed to give the certificates to people that dont deserve it then it seems that its at their discression. Whether your strict or not 6 hours training on a machine that can kill anyone in an instant isnt enough..... Statistics show it. A guy that i knew through high school, on a ped ended up in a box with a broken neck a few years ago. Im adamant that if he had had more training he'd still be alive....... Agreed the CBT should be over 2 days at least, in my opinion and i think the age limmit should be raised from 16 to 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hate_camel Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 When I did my first CBT it was the first time I'd ever been on a bike and by the time I'd finished it I felt confident enough to ride on my own so I think it did it's job for me. However when I did buy my 125 the first thing I did was take it up to the industrial estate and practice my manouvers when nobody else was around. I've slowly built myself up from there, taking further trips when I've felt confident enough. Now I feel happy to go anywhere, my only problem is navigating the bloody A roads, I hate having to find alternatives to using the motorways! Hoping to do my A2 test on my current bike when money permits. I think my point is that you can't stop some numpty doing a CBT and then doing something stupid when they're riding alone. If you want to be a safe rider its your responsiblity at the end of the day. Like others have said there is plenty of additional training to help people, but not everyone wants that help. As for the kids on peds, they clearly don't give a shit, seeing them ride in shorts and flip flops with no gloves always baffles me, what's the difference between them falling off their scooter at 30mph and me falling off my bike at 30mph? They seem to think they're invincible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas up - Let's Go! Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 What scare's the bejeasus out of me is a 16yr old can drive a Tractor on the road...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Licences should have a set life too, so you need to site a re-test/assesment after say 10 years. I'm sick of hearing "I've had my licence since before you were out of nappies" etc etc, if you really are a good rider/driver then you'll have no problem passing an assesment, will you ?? PS - for anyone who's had thier bike test passed for over 10 years, have you tried any basic motorcycle control lately? just like the stuff in the CBT ?? go on, have a go - I think a few might suprise themselves...... licences should have a set life ! what another money making scheme for the goverment £80 or so to pass an assesment a few more bob in the coffers, in part i agree with you if it was for the saftey aspect alone as there are plenty of bikers out there coming back to biking after not being on a bike for years, its not just young bikers riding like twats. i hope when you say licences you also include car drivers, bus drivers , hgv drivers as well, as young scooter riders are not the only idiots on the road. i must be one of those people who make you sick as i pased my test in 1963 so that was way before you were in nappies but due to dvlc losing my bike entitlement i had to take cbt ,theory test and bike test again and had no problem with basc motorcycle control what so ever,like you i have ridden in many countries through out the world and have always rode bikes and still learning, i thought the cbt was a joke how can you expect somebody who has never been on a bike before to be competent after six hours training but compare it with being able to jump on a bike at sixteen 250cc no helmet laws just L plates so many young people died, you passed your test and no such thing as 33bhp restriction at 17 i was a danger not only to my self but to every one, cbt is not ideal or is the 33bhp restriction lets hope this new test is a start maybe they might incorporate some of it in to a new style cbt. age does not make you a good rider there are plenty of very good young riders out there on the road riding safely who hopefully will die of old age given the right training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas up - Let's Go! Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 i hope when you say licences you also include car drivers, bus drivers , hgv drivers as well, as young scooter riders are not the only idiots on the road. Yep, everyone. i must be one of those people who make you sick Only when you use it as a reason to say you are a better rider. I do have one or two personal reasons for this; My outlaws, well Mr Outlaw, he just shouldn't be driving, he is a danger to himself and others - but he just won't be told. If he had to pass an assesment then he'd be off the road! There are countless examples of this on the road everyday - young, old, experienced and fresh from the test centre. It's not perfect but it does give some degree of controll over who can and can't drive/ride. It's not a right after all. Like you, I had to re-take my test, although it was me who didn't send off my test papers to the DVLA when I was young. so had to do the whole thing again. I'm glad I did as it gave me a new perspective on things. I consider myself an experienced rider, but a good rider ?? I'm always of the opinion that those who claim to be good riders rarely are. I have a ride assesment on Sunday, so I'll let the experts comment on that, but I'll be knocked sideways if they don't tell me there are areas I can improve. The whole licence expiry thing is already there (in the UK) (and with Photo style licences) so you have to pay to get it re-issued (check your licence, they only last 10 years), why not have an assement included ? I'd be happy to pay £8 a year if it got just one dangerous person off the roads, and saved one innocent victim of an accident. There are many ways of doing it, passing a recognised Advanced Course, or PSV, HGV, whatever - as long as you've been tested to current standards, it shows you are taking it seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Yep, everyone. Only when you use it as a reason to say you are a better rider. I do have one or two personal reasons for this; My outlaws, well Mr Outlaw, he just shouldn't be driving, he is a danger to himself and others - but he just won't be told. If he had to pass an assesment then he'd be off the road! There are countless examples of this on the road everyday - young, old, experienced and fresh from the test centre. It's not perfect but it does give some degree of controll over who can and can't drive/ride. It's not a right after all. Like you, I had to re-take my test, although it was me who didn't send off my test papers to the DVLA when I was young. so had to do the whole thing again. I'm glad I did as it gave me a new perspective on things. I consider myself an experienced rider, but a good rider ?? I'm always of the opinion that those who claim to be good riders rarely are. I have a ride assesment on Sunday, so I'll let the experts comment on that, but I'll be knocked sideways if they don't tell me there are areas I can improve. The whole licence expiry thing is already there (in the UK) (and with Photo style licences) so you have to pay to get it re-issued (check your licence, they only last 10 years), why not have an assement included ? I'd be happy to pay £8 a year if it got just one dangerous person off the roads, and saved one innocent victim of an accident. There are many ways of doing it, passing a recognised Advanced Course, or PSV, HGV, whatever - as long as you've been tested to current standards, it shows you are taking it seriously. no i never claim to be a better rider so i dont make you sick! like you that would be for others to tell me i never think i know it all as new experiences happen every day as well as the usual ones. i understand what you mean about your outlaw my next door neighbour has been driving forty plus years but still cant reverse and hubby has to reverse it out ! it was only last year that i had to retake my test so only 8yrs till i have to renew my licence (70) apart from the money aspect ie cbt,theory test ,bike test i was glad in a way of being assesed as being over sixty it was good to know i was fit to be on the road and not a danger to others,may be when i am 70 i can redo my advanced riders as way of knowing if i should still be on the road? off topic darren but have you used the eurostar folkestone to calais? as i started to get seasick last year on the harwich hook of holland and felt rough for a couple of hours after getting of the boat and as the eurostar is a short crossing the extramileage is not to bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas up - Let's Go! Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 off topic darren but have you used the eurostar folkestone to calais? as i started to get seasick last year on the harwich hook of holland and felt rough for a couple of hours after getting of the boat and as the eurostar is a short crossing the extramileage is not to bad. Yes, it's great. Roll up and within the hour you are riding in France. The terminal is straight off the motorway too. If you look at the website there are often good deals - I go an email a couple of weeks back, offering £22 return for WSB weekends. There are usually a few bikes. You just have to watch the bike as the train rumbbles along, they don't tie them down, but it depends on your bike and the lean on the sidestand I guess, mine sits quite upright so it's not as stable - but then again it's only 30 minutes of travel, so no hardship realy. If you time it right you can avoid that nasty M25 traffic..... I've used the Portsmouth/Bilbao route but the Bay of Biscay can be rough, I'd rather take the Chunnel and ride through France, the Newcastle/IJmuden routes are OK, but again if you get the wrong weather your in it for a while !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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