captf Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted July 21, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 21, 2015 guys a freeking knob, he even checked his van for scratches. love the lady, bless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captf Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 The guy'll lose his job over it. Companies with trucks are ruthless to their staff in regards to insurance [at least according to my trucker dad]I think you hear him say 'sorry' as he jumps out the truck. But he doesn't even slow down when approaching the corner; he just goes for it The lady hugging the guy was cute. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 We all make mistakes I know but what the hell was he doing? It's not like the bike is invisible is it and he took an awful lot of turning to get round that corner. I'm sorry to say but some folks should not be driving anything let alone 15 ton of flat bed truck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttaskmaster Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Far too fast for that corner, I assume...Fucking prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captf Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 biker was in the guy's mirror caused blind spot for the entire video. But the guy didn't even stop to properly check if it was clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lallasro Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I wonder for what the hell they fit a horn on the bikes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j0hn Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Without being too controversial, could this situation have been avoided? I know it's easy for me to type this without actually being there and knowing the factors that would affect your decision so this all just an analytical breakdown of the video. Could a bit of defensive riding have saved his bike? I don't condone what the driver did after the collision and as captf has already mentioned, the blind spots definitely didn't help the situation. Also, the way the driver reacted to the whole thing might just be the fact that he is in shock, but again, not the point I'm trying to make here. It's obvious that a vehicle of that size is going to have a larger turning circle and has been stated in the Highway Code (221). I know the illustration isn't the same as the road layout in the video but what it's trying to show is clear. The truck will, more often than not, crossover into oncoming traffic and drivers are advised to stop and wait if it needs room, which the rider clearly did. Around the three second mark, you can see through the metal railing that the truck has been indicating before approaching the road, obviously very difficult for the rider to notice so this was just to make sure the driver was properly indicating. I think the five second mark is crucial, not sure what rider was trying to look at, hopefully it was just an early shoulder check and not checking out the girl that walked by. I'm just guessing here but it's crucial because I don't think the rider noticed the indicator at this point and in turn, didn't realise the driver's intentions. First point I'll make is, had he focused on the road ahead, would there have been enough time for him to stop sooner, knowing the driver was already milking the extra room needed? Not putting this entirely on the rider because I think the driver should have waited for the buses/traffic to clear to get a better turning circle. Around six seconds, the driver can't see the rider and he showed no sign of stopping, rider is unaware. Around seven seconds, the rider realises this and let's say the shock of it prevents movement but still able to shout a warning. Around nine seconds the rider is able to save himself by using the crash momentum to roll off. I believe the rider was still in gear at this point because I couldn't hear any clutch noises coming up to incident and the engine seems to rev up and stall when he came off. Second point, around the time the rider realises the driver wasn't stopping (which is around seven seconds), was there enough time for him to ride across to the other lane? He did his shoulder check so should know the lane is clear from behind/sides and nothing is coming from the front on that lane. This really depends if he was in gear, if not, then the odds are higher. I know this opens the rider up to a whole lot of legal issues if moving over develops into something more. It may even be more dangerous if the rider didn't position himself in a safe place after moving as the driver still wouldn't be able to see him so potential to be caught by the rear wheels as the truck was always going to end up back on the right lane after some time anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Fair point John, as I said we all make mistakes, the rider "could" have dived for the right hand side of the road when he saw what was happening but we all have 20-20 vision when looking back at stuff. Still no one hurt and just damage to pay for that in itself is a good result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captf Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Could this situation have been avoided?Yup, if the driver stopped for a few seconds before turning. There is zero slowing down from him.If they biker had been turning left, and was positioned more over that side, it'd be a lot worse. But then, would he have been more visible to the driver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted July 22, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2015 if someone is driving towards you, you first assume that they see you and will make the necessary actions to move/stop. then there is a point where the motorcyclist realises that he can't/didn't see you, hence the reaction to shout and move out of the way. the speed of the lorry was the issue as I think he took it wide because of the lady pedestrian on that corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j0hn Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Still no one hurt and just damage to pay for that in itself is a good result. Yea totally agree, just a shame he lost the bike.Yup, if the driver stopped for a few seconds before turning. There is zero slowing down from him. the speed of the lorry was the issue as I think he took it wide because of the lady pedestrian on that corner.The driver not slowing down does play a pretty big part in this. It seems more like he was a bit inpatient and didn't wait for the buses/traffic to clear. If he had, it would have allowed him to crossover into oncoming traffic on the major road before turning into the minor. This would have meant his vehicle would be in a position similar to the illustration above where he might have only crossed over half the lane the rider was in, putting him in a better position to see the rider. if someone is driving towards you, you first assume that they see you and will make the necessary actions to move/stop.I always ride under the assumption that they don't see you and work my way up from the worst case scenario. The size of the vehicle and the blind spots were just not in favour of the driver or rider in this instance though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captf Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 The size of the vehicle and the blind spots were just not in favour of the driver or rider in this instance though.Overall, yeah. It was a whole host of variables that led to the biker becoming completely invisible.Even one changing would have made him visible to the driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttaskmaster Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's obvious that a vehicle of that size is going to have a larger turning circle and has been stated in the Highway Code (221).At the same time, most large vehicles will also know this and purposely not hoon it into such corners, giving other people time to see your intent and get out of the way. As is, he barely made that turning and possibly even clipped the kurb to the rider's left.He was certainly going too fast, didn't have time to steer fully and "should 'a looked inter that minor road t' make *sure* 'ee could see the 'ole road an' tha' it were clear"... this last part being a direct quote from my dad, who has been professionally driving trucks like this and bigger for over 50 years now... and is from Wolver'ampton, hence the accent! But had that been a child, he'd likely be looking at his licence being pulled, now. Around the three second mark, you can see through the metal railing that the truck has been indicating before approaching the road, obviously very difficult for the rider to notice so this was just to make sure the driver was properly indicating. The rider doesn't appear to have noticed, as he's looking at traffic behind the truck and clocking the pedestrian potentially crossing, likely believing the truck to be going so fast that it's no way turning in. He then sees that the truck IS turning in and we go from there. hopefully it was just an early shoulder check and not checking out the girl that walked by. I didn't even see her, until you pointed her out and I re-watched with HD switched on! First point I'll make is, had he focused on the road ahead, would there have been enough time for him to stop sooner, knowing the driver was already milking the extra room needed? Had he been watching directly ahead and focussing on the truck, yes he could have probably stopped a couple of feet sooner.As is, he was watching the road around, looking for vehicles slowing to make that turn and hazards immediately around, especially on a T junction like this where you normally get pedestrians and especially cyclists zipping across.But even if he'd stopped as far back as that flatbed truck in the driveway to the left, he'd still have been likely to get a truck in the face, based on the forward blind spots on that truck. He did his shoulder check so should know the lane is clear from behind/sides and nothing is coming from the front on that lane. He knows his blind spot was clear 2-4 seconds ago. Anything else depends on mirror checks... and having had Beemers go around my right, before speeding off and through just such a junction when I was stopping for just such a reason, I don't think he can safely rely on that, either. I haven't seen this with sound yet but if, having hit something and there being a bikeless biker shouting at you in the road, you *still* need the biker to actually point out that there's a bike under your wheel... I'd warrant you should have gone to SpecSavers that morning instead of the depot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noise Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Correct me if im wrong...but is that truck fitted with rear wheel steer? looks as tho it is to me and if im right then the trucker didn't need to take it that wide as the rear end will follow on nice and not "kick out" like a fixed axle would. the depo would have known he would be going down side roads and delegated a appropriate wagon to fit such roads (hence my believing its a rear steer truck)Yes he still would have come over the white line, but no where near as far as he did. Also if you watch it again (probably for the 15th time ha-ha) and then carry on his potential line you can see the rear wheels following nicely with the front end and going completely over to the other side.So as we all agreed if he slowed down and took the corner less wide he could have hugged the curb more and make the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up.yours Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 my question is ! would a noisy exhaust have helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttaskmaster Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 my question is ! would a noisy exhaust have helped You let me ride your noisiest bike past you, while you're sat in a cage with the windows up and the radio on, see what you think... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Cynic Posted July 27, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2015 Correct me if im wrong...but is that truck fitted with rear wheel steer? looks as tho it is to me and if im right then the trucker didn't need to take it that wide as the rear end will follow on nice and not "kick out" like a fixed axle would. the depo would have known he would be going down side roads and delegated a appropriate wagon to fit such roads (hence my believing its a rear steer truck)Yes he still would have come over the white line, but no where near as far as he did. Also if you watch it again (probably for the 15th time ha-ha) and then carry on his potential line you can see the rear wheels following nicely with the front end and going completely over to the other side.So as we all agreed if he slowed down and took the corner less wide he could have hugged the curb more and make the corner.Nah. Dont help, the rear steer makes the kick worse. Not forgetting those selco 6 wheelers have an 8ft overhang.The driver will have needed to plan his turn most likely clocking the 'empty' side road gave him more options as people regularily hit the tail as it swings. None of the traffic on the main road would have given him an inch.He would have been avoiding the little old lady too.Be interesting to know what the rider was wearing. It appears to be a tan coloured textile. Smart choice to blend in.Speaking as someone who has long experience of both vehicle types and just how fucking hard it is to drive in London i think the driver had information overload and the rider could have done more than moan and shout.The truck driver will be the one that loses out ultimately. He was more at fault but the bike could have saved himself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 my question is ! would a noisy exhaust have helped No, my noisy exhaust only makes me smile and makes my neighbours pissed when I come home late at night but as tasky said with widow up and radio on .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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