Teflon-Mike

78 MX Chain Mail? PM winging its way, if I may!

Post Temporarily Removed - I dont feel like 'Sharing' with the world at the moment!

Post Temporarily Removed - I dont feel like 'Sharing' with the world at the moment!

Post Temporarily Removed - I dont feel like 'Sharing' with the world at the moment!

Post Temporarily Removed - I dont feel like 'Sharing' with the world at the moment!

Post Temporarily Removed - I dont feel like 'Sharing' with the world at the moment!

Thanks nayruf; I have a DT-MX... it's a mongrel, an early round section swing-arm model. I love it, but the G/F is to short to touch the floor from its perch! Had a look at Red-Rose; take it thier named after the Lancs Classic Long-Trial.... no specs, but suppose if I e-mail them they may be able to tell me more. Thanks for the link to TYTrials, too, there cynic; very interesting article on the Shirt/Andrews Majesties, but again bit thin on the sort of interchangeability ideas I'm looking for. I hadn't really considered a T-Shock DT.... but now you mention it! Raises possibilities, especially as a project! Ie; strip-down the DT I have, with an earlier T-shock motor in later MX-Frame, get a T-Shock frame, & some body-work, rebuild it as original. Find some MX forks and yokes, rebuild the MX frame with the spare motor, as original! (sounds SO! Simple said like that, doesn't it!) Notion of a TY for her though, was becouse my 'thought', which is probably now proved wrong, was that the TY was basically the early T-Shock DT or enduro, with different cloths.... My understanding was, that the frames, forks and engines were the same, the difference was the tank on the TY was slimmer, and it had a lower solo-seat and plastic rear mudguard, where the DT/Enduro had larger tank, thicker duel-seat and slightly shorter, chrome rear-mudguard. Looking at pics, I spotted some differences; the DT exhaust wraps over the engine & behind the frame rails & side panels, where the TY exits infront of the frame rails and has a heat-guard on the mid-box, rather than a side-panel.... so maybe the frames aren't the same...... Though getting more genned up, possible that the earlier TY's were re-dressed DT's, (with what now seems definitely a 5-speed box) while later ones, got a six-cog box, from the MX generation engines, and thier own T-Shock frame.... I dont know at the moment. Like I said, trying to sort out the detail, doing my research. So far (Please correct me if I'm wrong, or elaborate where you can!):- - TY production appears to go from '73 to '84, all being T-Shock. Suggesting earlier bikes had the five speed & possibly five port motors of the DT, later ones the, six speed motors, shared with the DT, but not sure if they got the 7-port barels. (125/175 models; 250's continued longer, going Mono-Shock about '84/'85, I think) The DT's liniology seems a tad more complex, starting in about '68, and going through to date, with lots of spec changes along the way, and some over-lap in naming conventions! Early bikes, up to around '75 seem to have been badged 'Enduro' or 'Trail', with the DT monika appearing occassionally; Wasn't until the MX was launched that the DT badging was standardised for the 'road-orientated' dirt-bikes, coming I THINK from the 250's engine serielisation, AT having been a badge applied to earlier 125's, & CT(?) applied to some 175's? The MX continued until '83, with the air-cooled engine, but after-that, the 125 got the all new LC motor. The 175 continuing with the air-cooled engine for some markets, and revised 'LC' styling. The 125LC evolving to the modern DTR125, gaining multi-linked suspension, over cantelever at some point, along with disc brake. Though I'm basically only concerned with the air-cooled, pre-'83 bikes. So, T-shock DT may be an option; looking at some pics, she was rather taken by the 250 T-shock! But at the moment, I think the Ty175 is the 'default' choice or at least the bench-mark, I'm working to. As standard the seat isn't SO thin it would be too uncomfortable for laning, and the seat height is low, which is what she needs. MX we know from her tyring to sit mine, is too tall for her. T-shock might be lower, and more comfy for longer road runs, but IF we get her something, it wont be an every-day bike. She has the little Super-Dream for the road. This will just be for some Sunday-Afternoon Mud-Plugging... On that basis, practically, we are reasonably well endowed with G/L's round us... well... its not brilliant on the west side of town, we have Cov & Brum, while Warwickshire is a G/L dead-zone, with an incredibly un-accomodating council & few decent trails.... but east of us we have the Twycross trails, and North & South of those, plenty, heading into the boarders of S.Staffs, Liecestershire & Northamptonshire. There's 'enough' close enough to have a crack at on an evening or after-noon, without having to do big road miles or major arterials, and keep her grinning for a few hours. If she got a bit more seriouse about it.... well... I'd wimp-it! Trailer the bikes out to Matlock or Corwen, or further afield on the back of the old Rangie! Yeah, I know! NOT the 'done-thing', but hey! I'm getting old, and if I'm riding for fun, treking 100 odd miles up the major arterials of the A5 or A444, on a knobly shod leightweight aint it! Far rather wimp-it, sit in silhillian splendour being hauled along by a lumbering V8, listening to the sterio through the boring bit; then have some-where to dry-off, and plug in the lappy so I can get on Trail-wise, or consult Mem-Map, boil up a brew, and keep some tools incase of, etc! And a TY gives the 'pottential' for some comp-trials. I live fourteen miles from the Yenards, the venue for all Earl-Shilton Trials-Club's events, and family membership offers its use for practice when there are no events. A facility I used to make full use of when I was a member and riding with them and Peak-Classic Trials, in regular competition. That offers scope, if the notion takes her, to do some rock-hopping, and as close as the Yenards is, its not too far to ride the bike to the venue rather than trailering it, and maybe even doing a couple of the Hinkley G/L's en-route! If her interest evolved in that direction, well, it would be easy enough to convert a TY to full comp-spec, adding at first a GRP tank & squab-seat, big-ring for the back-wheel, and some Trials-slicks. If not, then it could still prove a versatile little dirt-bike for 'laning, IF she gets on with it. Thought occurs, that like the cut-down squab-seat for trials, IF her interest errs towards 'laning only, then we might be able to do a little adaptation to make it a bit more suitable for that use, and making up a thicker padded, and possibly a tad longer seat, may be one thing we could do. Or if my initial idea about interchangeability with DT models is there..... possibly use a T-Shock DT seat... see how my mind is mulling & why its the interchangeability question thats vexing me? And the notion of doing something with the spare engine and MY DT...... Spotted a couple of TY frames on e-bay for pennies, and even a TY gear-cluster..... More ponder points.... leave my DT as is, use the spare engine, with a TY Cluster in a TY frame, dress to suit.... all depending on the interchangeability question. Thing is, options are there, with a TY, and while I apreciate they tend to be the more expensive varient, thats also becouse they seem the more popular..... to my mind, means IF she doesn't get on with one, or dirt riding in general, its more easily moved on for something she can get on with..... But at the moment, its all up in the air, she's got her Super-Dream to finish putting together, and her road-training & test to get out of the way. (she's been riding on & off for eight years on CBT certs!) When it comes to it...... ANYTHING could happen with this girl! Taking her over the other side of Leicester tomorrow to a Peak-Classic Trials Club event; She's only ever seen You-Tube clips of real-trials and home-vids of me when I was competing. Only 'real' off-road action she's ever seen, seems to have been an afternoon, when a previouse boy-freind & his mate engaged in a little 'Rebel-Riding' ending up at the Yenards, via a bridle-way that crosses part of the venue, & hacking about on the trials course on gawd knows what trail-bikes. I'm just checking out pottentialities & possibilites! I dont know what she'll think after tomorrow. She MAY be completely put off the idea of a dirt-bike in any shape or form; but probably just as likely, she'll be clamouring for me to fettle my old Cota up and wanting me to get her a Day Membership for the next Peak-Classic event! NOT too sure I'm comfortable with THAT idea.... I bought that bike in early 1985, so have owned & ridden it for quarter of a century; it's my 'Baby'... not sure I even want to let some-one else RIDE it, let alone chuck it at big boulders! And, even if I over-come that mental hurdle, I'm not sure its really a good bike to stick a dirt-virgin on. It's a cantankerouse old beast; piston ported, kick-through-clutch engine, with heel-change box. Swing-arm's been shortened from stock, and the seat height lowered, she sups pre-mix from a 1.5 Gal tank, and rolls on super-sticky Pirelli Trials slicks. Its about the 'zeneth' of T-shock Trials evolution, and very much dedicated to the persuit. It's by far and away NOT a bike that can be practically used on the road. My bike is an '81 model 248, the sleeved down '250' version of the 350cc 349, Ulf Karlson took the 1980 World Trials Championship on. Other T-Shocks would take the next four WTC titles, but it's generally accepted, since no-one elce could place a Honda TL T-shock, that Eddie Lejeune's riding genius, was all that kept the Fantic Mono's off the top slot, as they were beating almost every thing else, every where else! The Yam TY's, were, by 1980, considered 'Dated' yet they kept making the T-Shock versions, getting ever more dated for another three or four years, as they were a popular club-man's mount. Thier limited capability aginst their italian & Spanish rivals were more than made up for by thier sturdy construction, renouned reliability, and the fact that if you stuffed a Fantic, you'd better have had a spare one ready to complete the rest of the season, 'cos if you broke anything more essential than a mudguard or control cable, you didn't stand much chance of getting the bit from the dealers.... if there was one.... and you could be waiting until next year before a part turned up from italy..... and even then, it would probably be the wrong one! I've competed T-shock from almost the class's conception in the early nineties, until about five years ago, when I had to give up riding competatively. Seen plenty of people turn up on old Fantics, SWM's, Beemish Suzuki's, Montesa Cota's, Bultaco Sherpa's or OSSA MAR's. Of all of them, the Sherpa is probably the best supported, but it was past its best by about '76/'77, and the earlier bikes were no-where near as specialised as the later-ones. The Cotas, are moderately well supported, but the earlier 247's & 348's were always a step behind the sherpa's. These are the easier bikes to live with, by way of getting bits to restore & run them. The others, you take your chances with! Apart from the Yam's. They were just ALWAYS there, and have carried on, doing what they always did. Padding the field in club competition in thier day, its probably not surprising that theres still so many around, or that in Classics, aproximately a third to half the field is nearly all TY mounted. And having ridden them as a School-boy, I know that the TY175 is by far one of the easiest bikes to get to grips with..... it just seems the most 'sensible' option for the situation. AND, I have to admit, I am PROBABLY more than a little biased towards the compers, and IF she's going to do it on dirt, I'd like to see her give the sport a crack, rather than puddling about on Green-Lanes. Especially as she SAYS she wants to do it to broaden her experience and develop her riding ability. Was trying to explain it, but ALL other forms of motorsport are about tearing around like a blue arsed fly, getting no-where, fast..... (you can tell I'm a trials nut, and in NO WAY biggoted, cant you! ;-)) Only 'metric' to measure your personal performance by is how fast you have gone, and how far up the table you finish. In Trials, you ride perhaps ten sections, maybe five times, in an event. Each one is observed and scored. Doesn't matter how fast your bike is, or how good your rivals are. End of the day, you get a score sheet and you can see how well you tackled each section, and whether you improved during the day... While for Value for Money..... it is THE most accessible motor-sport on the PLANET! £10 for an ACU trials licence. No medical, no insurance, nothing. Club membership & Event entry Varies, but typically £10 a year Club dues, £10 an entry for each event. You can compete a whole ten round club championship for under £150, before event expenses, & machine maintenence, which, as the bikes aren't highly strung spead-freaks, need NOT be much more than basic service spares. And each entry, you get four hours or so of good riding in! Compare that to the closest rival, Enduro! about the only other sport you get the same duration of competition hours in, but at hugely more cost. After that, you are looking at events costing x times more to enter, giving you as many x times less riding time! And pretty high likely hood, that at the end of the day, all your achievement will be tarnished by NOT being the winner! In Trials, compete aginst yourself, EVERY-ONE can be a winner! Well, thats what I've been telling myself for the last thirty odd years ANYWAY! :-) For Snowie (G/F), I think she'd enjoy, Green-Laning, and she'd probably get quite a bit from doing some, but its not really THAT challenging, and she'd not develop her riding MUCH in the way I think she hopes after a few outings. At least with ME. I got the DT with the idea of using it to get me riding again, after having to give up comp-trials, a bit of fun, with the pottential to do a bit of 'laning just for fun, an excuse to go ride, and get out the house. I'm not out for any personal challenges, or to seek mock, enduro thrills. And I'd not be too enthusiastic to encourage Snowie to go out with any-one to whome 'Laning WAS that kind of thing, its just against my value set. The public road is NOT the place to push the envelope, whether on a sports-bike or dirt bike, the place for testing the limit is in competition, end of. Green-Lanes are public roads, without tarmac, a place for a drive or ride in the country, seeing the scenary, getting off the beaten track, and away from the main-stream of Sunday-Drivers... and if there's the odd section that is a bit more interesting along the way, so much the better... but its not the be-all and end all of the ride or drive! ANYWAY..... rambling away...... dont know where we've got to.... think that I might have been talking us into the TY a lot more convincingly, and opening myself up to charges of swaying her towards comp-trials, becouse its 'my' sport, when all she wants is to hack something about a field and see how she gets on...... BUT..... we'll see?!? Got to go pack a picnic, think I might be scoring a section tomorrow! Night all! Thanks git... yup, been down-loading manuals; have the T-shock manual for the engine for bike, in hard copy, have parts of the MX manual for the frame, in variouse pdf files, and possibly forreign languages, and have found I think a copy of the TY owners manual..... all good stuff, and probably, when I get to compare them , answer a few Q's about actual specs of different variants, but the interchangeability Q is probably one books wont give me.... well... parts catalogues MAY give some answers in some, places, but some of the stuff, like swapping seats between variants, I dont know! Anyway, any more grist to the mill, more than apreciated!

OK, well, the DT125 is still waiting for me to get round to doing anything with it, but I've had my hands full runnng about after the G/F who has 'ideas'! Last one she had was to restore a bike..... so she took my 750 to bits! THOUGHT I'd solved that problem getting her a little Honda Super-Dream to play with, but no! We were looking at some old pictures & vids, of me trials riding, and NOW she wants to have a go at dirt-riding.... LUCKILY the DT is to tall for her to ride..... UN-LUCKILY my beloved 1981 Montesa Cota 248, that I have had since it was just over three years old, ISN'T.... In fact, its just RATHER small enough for her to be coveting it.... So before it ends up half stripped, with vital bits missing and other vital bits hanging off, like the 750 did... I've been trying to research TY 175's I haven't ridden one for probably quarter of a century, but what I remember is that they were a LOT more manageable than the 250, and conveniently were not 'quite' as single minded as a lot of low slung rock-hoppa's (like my cota) Notion that strikes me, is that its got probably 'just' enough saddle height to be useable on the road over a distance, yet be low enough that the lady can get her little feet flat on the floor at traffic lights and stuff, or get feet-up and do some 'lanes on the thing, and MAYBE even a T-shock trial under an observers scrutinouse gaze. As a plan.... to preserve MY bikes, and some sanity, does this sound reasonable? Next up....... Mechanics wise, I never actually spannered more than a spare clutch or brake lever on one back in the days I was riding School-boy, but I DO remember that they were very closely related to the DT's, particularly the earlier T-Shock ones. However, some conflicting specs have got me wondering. One of them, described the TY175 as having a four speed box. I was sure it was as the DT, a six cogger? But leading from that, what else is the same / different? Does any-one have a link to 'definative' specs for them (and the DT for that matter for comparison)? Reason for asking, being that ther are a couple of routes to sorting her out with one, if she decided to follow the idea up. One is to simply buy a reasonably complete, ready to ride, example; other is to hand her a frame, engine, forks and a box of spanners, and hope that keeps her from atacking my Cota! You can guess which is the preffered option! Though I do worry that if TOO much is interchangeable, I might end up with bits going mysteriousely 'missing' from the DT! But if that was the preffered route, I was pondering the possibilities of hybridisation, particularly in the motor. I mean, as an 'all-round' green-laner come comp-trialer, what cog options might there be to mix and match to get say 1st & 2nd really low, & 5th & 6th really high, to give a better spread of gears to cover all bases? But of course, that presumes that they share common bottom ends, & do both have six speeders. elsewise, whats the possibilities of using a six-speed DT bottom end in teh TY frame, but using TY barel for the softer porting (if it has such?!) Any Ideas?

You SAID it was your first bike! Doesn't suggest a lot of experience! And it wasn't a 'rant'... well, per se.... thought I was being mildly humourous... No I'm still here.....

Yup... thats why I stated it was a matter of 'opinion' NOT a 'fact'. As for research, no need, I KNOW the pro's and cons of wavy-discs; and I wasn't going to go so far off-topic here, when my comment was a small correction in terminology, the OP may like to note for reference. But as YOU state, benefits are in ONE set of particular circumstances; discontinuity offers a relief grove for muck on the disc to clear the gripping area, like the tread does on a tyre to keep the contact patch clear. On a dirt bike, used hard on dirt, that one small advantage MAY be of some benefit IF you are in a situation where having that bit added braking may be an advantage. Given that normally if the surface you were riding was muddy enough to acrue such crud on the disc that it needed clearing, chances are the lost braking effect PROBABLY wouldn't matter as you wouldn't have the grip to transmit added braking force, you'd just lock the wheel instead. TWO places where they may be a tad more useful are in trials where you WANT to lock the wheel, and dont tend to be going that fast, or in Motard, where you are on a mixed surface, and dirt sections may chuck the muck on the disc, but the tarmac sections may give you chance to use full braking, but where the use of a BIGGER wavy disc with SMALLER wheel, gives it greater mechanical advantage to offset the other dissadvantages. In either circumstances benefits are marginal and specific, and for the 'advantage' you have a disc that has less metal in it, (especially if you are using a stock size wavy disc to replace stock sized solid one!) meaning less rubbed area, meaning less max braking force ALL the time, and less heat dissipation, meaning more chance of a warped disc, (aided by the stress raisers of the relief cuts) and suggesting harder brake pads, meaning less ultimate breaking power. Its ALL swings and roundabouts, and wavy discs, if YOU do YOUR research are NOT a universal 'upgrade' to give better stopping in ALL circumstances.... in FACT they ACTUALLY have RATHER a lot of pottentially LESS helpful properties.... But like I said, its a matter of 'opinion', an awful lot of it subjective and circumstance dependant as to whether a wavy disc has ANY useful advantages....not 'Fact' Perhaps, you'd like to consider the difference between 'opinion' & 'fact' before wading in suggesting an 'opinion' is wrong....

BUY THE BOOK Its about £15 from most emporiums like Busters or Wemoto. If you cant afford £15 for the book, then believe me, you CANNOT afford to do a resto! FFS, £15 is the price of the tax disc at the very end! Bearings, seals, cables, tyres, paint ALL the bits you are likely to have to buy are going to cost you MANY MANY times the cost of the bludy book! Question: Would you buy a flat-pack wardrobe from Ikea with no instructions? Or a Jigsaw puzzle with no picture of what it should look like? Yet, you and SO many others, (probably chap that took the thing together in the first-place, & sold it to you 'cos he couldn't remember how to put it back together again, hence not GIVING you a manual with the bits!) go get bikes they have NO IDEA how to take apart or put together, are happy to spend hundreds of quid on mechanical its and pieces, or expensive cosmetics like paint, stickers and seat covers, but for SOME reason RESENT paying a few quid for a set of ruddy instructions, that andswer nearly ALL the silly questions they are likely to have to ask along the way! Dont want to sound snotty, but "DowH!" moment! It just dont make sense, NOT to have the book, does it?! Especially if you have bought the bike in bits, and as you say, its your FIRST bike, so presumeably you have little or no prior experience of hoe these things may go together, and not ONLY is it your first bike, but your first restoration, and WORSE, you bought it as a bloomin jicg-saw puzzle! I've been at this game for thirty years. I've been taking bikes apart since I was old enough to wield a spanner, I learned the craft of spannering in an ad-hoc aprenticeship at the elbow of some time-served master mechanics, before going to university to do a degree in Mechanical engineering..... I STILL buy the book for a new bike! Saves looking 'stupid' asking daft questions! Not harping on here, but, BUY THE BOOK! Just, well, JUST do it! You'll learn SO much! And if it means saving up an extra month or so for the tax at the end, so be it. Believe me, try putting the bike back together without it; you will be making life hard for yourself, to the point taht there may not BE an end and the tax wont matter! You'll be scratching your head, fretting about all you DONT know, never getting anywhere, making mistakes, and wating time, money and effort NOT getting any nearer to completion! Are you still reading this! WHY! I told you, Busters, or Wemoto! You should be on thier web-site placing an order for one RIGHT NOW! Or e-bay! If your lucky, and you REALLY are hard up, they some-times have second hand ones for about a fiver! Even new-ones some-times, though for some daft reason often sell for MORE than they do at Busters or We-Moto! STILL READING! Geez! I would have THOUGHT you'd have got the message by now! YOU NEED TO GO BUY THE HAYNES MANUAL! How more succinctly can ~I put it?!? :-) Seriousely, get the book, read, enjoy. Take your time, and it should all come together & you'll REALLY enjoy it. And DONT fret the pennies. If you try doing it 'on the cheap' you'll not get there. sometimes you have to bite the bullet and get the bit you need. Suspect your throttle cable example is case in point. Fact that the throttle still jams open suggests that it wasn't the cable, but the carburettor. Have you stripped and cleaned it? Why not? Dont tell me..... looked complicated..... you didn't know how....... ITS IN THE BOOK! If you'd had that to begin with, you would possibly have fixed that problem easily with a little time, elbow grease and maybe somefine wet & dry sand-paper, and saved the price of your new throttle cable..... See why SPENDING money on the RIGHT things, like THE HAYNES MANUAL can be a very prudent investment..... Placed that order for a Work-Shop Manual now? ;-)

If you are 'Restoring' a bike, then adding using a non-original part like a 'wavy disc' is taking it AWAY from show-room spec, not towards it. So you aren't 'restoring' it, you are 'renovating' (Improving overall condition & serviceability, without regard to original specification) with possibly a little modification / cusomisation going on, if adding more fasionable or (cough) higher performance parts. (cough) was becouse notion that wavy discs perform better than plain ones is a little anomolouse; they are lighter, and they liik trick, but whether they actually improve braking much remains a matter of opinion. Better upgrade would be a braided steel brake hose, especially on a dirt-bike with comparititively long rubber hose with more volume to swell under pressure. Symantics, but hey-ho..... Worth noting if ever you use the term on e-bay or the like though, as STRICTLY if you describe a bike as 'Restored' then by strict interpretation that means you have returned it EXACTLY to the show-room standard, not simply fixed it up so it works, and given it a new coat of paint and some cheap replica decals!

Post Temporarily Removed - I dont feel like 'Sharing' with the world at the moment!

Post Temporarily Removed - I dont feel like 'Sharing' with the world at the moment!

Post Temporarily Removed - I dont feel like 'Sharing' with the world at the moment!

STOLEN Registration NUY640P, Colour Yellow, taken sometime Saturday 21st April, Nuneaton, Warwickshire UK. If any-one knows of its whereabouts or has other information pertaining to it's theft, please contact Warwickshire Police: http://www.warwicksh...i/Crimestoppers 9-months of blood, sweat & tears went into 'saving' this bike from the ignomy of being a field-bike, and represented the hopes of a summers riding. And I DIDN'T even get to ride the bludy thing thanks to some low life skum. I had been a very happy chappy, full of anticipation at enjoying the fruits of my labours. A second machine was stolen from my home this evening. (23 April 2012) My house viloated, breaking in to steal keys for that machine, a Dark-Purple (Black) 1985 Honda CB125 Super-Dream, Registration number C978JWE, and to all the locks for my other bikes. again, If any-one knows of its whereabouts or has other information pertaining to it's theft, please contact Warwickshire Police:http://www.warwicksh...i/Crimestoppers