R1 vs R6

[daboz1323]

Sorry,lots of questions.

Hey my name is justin. I've been working hard and earning money and im about to buy my first bike. And of course like any other sane person in the world i immediatly want the coolest bike on the market. yamaha R1. But, i have heard its a hell of alot of power especialy for first timers. i have plenty of self control. first car was a 415 hp 69 camaro. had it for 6 months no tickets or wrecks. and now i drive an 04 z06 1 ticket still safe (had that for a year). now my controversy is bewteen the r1 and r6. is the power of the r1 so much thats its not the self control but just generaly difficult to control? i've had some people tell me to get the r6 first until i learn to respect the bike. but financialy that will be difficult. not like as soon as i finish i can just buy an r1. and is it possible with mods to make the r6 faster as i learn? any input will help.

[atlantasmittie84]

An R6 is still pretty fast for a first bike. Honestly get an FZ6 or Suzuki SV650 or a Honda 599. They are quick bikes that look like sport bikes but are much better for starting out on. And get used because you will eventually dump your bike. Plus if you have it paid off insurance is really cheap.

My buddy had an R1 and I rode it a couple of times. It's extremely fast. Violent fast. When you hit the gas on it it's like an explosion that doesn't end. Sneeze too hard and you'll wheelie over.

And you 600s are really fast too. My buddy has a CBR600F4i and raced my buddy on his R1. The 600 wasn't far behind the R1 up to 100mph. After that the litres start to shine and leave the 600s. So basically it will be as stupid fast as an R1 up to those speeds. Honestly a Hyabusa is much easier to start out on than an R1. Their power is smoother and easier to control than the 1000s.

And looking cool does you no good when you are in the back of a semi-truck or lightpole.

To demostrate how powerful an R1 is here are some videos I took of my buddy on his R1. Including a drag race between a Busa and R1 that reached close to 200mph/320kph (Busa did reach 200mph)

R1 Wheelies

More R1 wheelies

R1 wheelie at 120mph 193kph

Now I know the wheelies look cool and all but this guy spent his entire life on dirtbikes then got a CBR600. After riding that for a year he stepped it up to an R1. And when he got the R1 it was so powerful he was afraid to wheelie it and refuses to do 1st gear wheelies.

I know it sucks wanting to get a slower bike. But you'll learn a whole lot more from starting on a less powerful bike.

[smithac87]

Sorry,lots of questions.

Hey my name is justin. I've been working hard and earning money and im about to buy my first bike. And of course like any other sane person in the world i immediatly want the coolest bike on the market. yamaha R1. But, i have heard its a hell of alot of power especialy for first timers. i have plenty of self control. first car was a 415 hp 69 camaro. had it for 6 months no tickets or wrecks. and now i drive an 04 z06 1 ticket still safe (had that for a year). now my controversy is bewteen the r1 and r6. is the power of the r1 so much thats its not the self control but just generaly difficult to control? i've had some people tell me to get the r6 first until i learn to respect the bike. but financialy that will be difficult. not like as soon as i finish i can just buy an r1. and is it possible with mods to make the r6 faster as i learn? any input will help.

Hey man, personally I dont believe in that whole start with less then make more theory but agian thats just ME! I believe if you want to ride a 1000 b4 a 600 be my guest I like to think that the rider has more control than the bike does yes the R1 has alot more torque an power stock but u also control how you ride the bike! if you think youir gonna hop right on and go balls to the wall majority shows that you will f%# up! whether you make a turn to hard or hitting gravel for the first time it can catch you off guard! the throttle is in your hand no one elses ease back dont crank just like squeeze the trigger dont pull! and soon enough you"ll get the feel and comfort zone you need to ride to your satisfaction! make sure you explore all enviorments to see how the bike reacts like balck top against asphalt or gravel against dirt they all handle different so the sooner you find that out you"ll know how to react when you hit it!

Now as far as performance goes I personaly ride a 2007 r6s not my first bike had a 2003 honda cbr 1000 and will never buy a 1000 again! yeah i know its not an R1 but whatever! as far as bang for your buck I believe a 600 is the way to go! I bought my bike out of the box for 8 G's even! have seen R1's get to 11000 dollars at SOME places have 9500 at others so shop wisely! the R1 is about 40 punds heavier dry weight length is roughly the same! Now 40 punds may not seem like a huge deal off the bat but you can notice a huge difference if you sit on both bikes! R6 runs about 350 lbs while the R1 is about 390 as far as control goes theres no agrument anywhere the r6 has the r1 beat in any cornering anywhere rides on rails! plus you have a huge powerband on an r6 redlines at 17500 but tops at 1800! Personaly I have put a yoshimura trc carbon fiber exhaust K&N intake and type III power commader which gave a significant boost in power and have beaten R1 yes you can do the same to an R1 and more than likely beat the R6 but again price total of 8800 bucks for r6 around 10000 for r1! Of course depneding on the rider! the r6 comes factory with about 130 h.p. almost 10-20 more h.p. than most other 600's in its class! Yes the r1 has about 10 more mph then the r6 has but yeah going REALLY STRAIGHT REALLY FAST IS LOADS OF FUN puh! the rush comes from taking a corner at 120 which can be hell raising with an r1 or heavenly with an r6! Yes were men and it will always be bigger is better more power woof woof woof but there is no better feeling than smoking a 1000 regardless of what brand and knowing you paid alot less for it! the performance mods are easy exhaust is bolt on filter is just replaced now for power commander I bought mine online from morepowerracing.com what they do is when you purchase your commander call them at there 1-800 # and they will send your commander back to the dyno jet company and they will professionally tune your commander to your intake and exhaust no matter what brand you have! and send it back to you just plug mount and play! so that is all stuff you can do in a basic garage with basic tools!

sorry for the essay but just with my opion and i do respect everyone elses regardless of what they ride thats just my perogitive take it or leave it! Hope you have fun with your new bike whatever it may be! ride safe and ride hard!

[chrisw]

Recently a mate took his bike for a service and had arranged to take out an R1 demonstrator. I thought I'd take out a new R6.

This is what I wrote to someone I often have a 600 v 1000 debate about. Now bear in mind as well that the write up is subject to the kind of tight twisty roads that are the English Peak District and could may be totally different for someone in the states riding big open fast sweeping roads.

So off we went on some familiar roads to test them out, and this is my findings

07 R6

1) Lovely and I do mean lovely BARK from the front ram air, snapping the throttle is so satisfying

2) Handled superbly, I've never ridden anything that handled that way, it just flicks about like you can't imagine.

3) Engine is weak in low revs, but once at 6k it take off right through to the redline, gearing means that this isn't a long wait till 6k anyway

4) Brakes were good and had an excellent feel and bite to them.

07 R1

1) Too quiet

2) Fast as you not what in a straight line

3) Suspension was lot softer than the R6

4) Handling (and the R1 is supposed to handle good) was below expectations.

5) Brakes were very strong but lacked feel.

6) All you can hear is the R6 rider blipping the throttle and enjoying the intake bark.

I'm not sure if it was because I'd just jumped off the R6 but the handing on the R1 was naff compared. Where the R6 loves to lay down in corners and there's loads of feedback and confidence from the front, the R1 wants to stand upright all the time and felt like there was no connection between road and rider, this meant twisty corners were slower on the R1.

The R1 was like a missile, but felt uninspiring to ride as you didn't have to work it, the R6 is without a doubt ..... utterly amazing; OK the revs have to get up before it takes off, and it doesn't have a much low down grunt as an 03 - 05 R6, but once it's on the move it's handling excites and because your using the gearbox instead of just sticking in one gear it's far more satisfying to ride and gives way more SMILE PER MILE.

Where would my money be ............... it would be on taking the engine out of my 04 R6 and sticking it into a 07 R6 frame. It has strengthened my opinion that a new R7 or R8 should be designed, waivering towards the feel of the R6 rather than R1.

Shortly after we got back on to our own bikes, and refuelled we swapped to each others. My mate has never ridden mine before and the only time I'd rode his was over 3 years ago when I still had a Thundercat.

Our thoughts about the 2 were the same:

1) The Gixer 750 engine didn't seem that much quicker than the R6 (both 04 plates), but did have more grunt a little more torque further into the midrange.

2) The R6 seems more roomy around the controls and dash.

3) The R6 handles better and leans on it's side easier.

The ride on all the bikes has helped me appreciate my own bike again. I had been thinking it must be getting tired having had so much use, but I no longer think that, also seeing it on the road with gas riding it I thought .... "God d'mn that's good looking !"

SUMMARY : 600's are better if you like cornering and enjoy RIDING a bike,

1000 better if you like straight line speed and enjoy just holding on

Yamaha R6, whether '04 or '07 models are bloomin good bike's ! Not that I'm biased :-)

[daboz1323]

you guys have really given insite. i apreciate it.

final question are which more comfortable for everyday use. it seems like the r6 is the better option although i really like the hang on top speed. (nearly once a day im past 160 in the vette). but is the r6 that much slower that if i intake and exhaust it that being a first timer ill notice? btw. better to buy of cycle trader or from a yamaha dealership?

[atlantasmittie84]

My buddy had a CBR600 F4i that topped out at 167mph. But doing 160 on a bike is way different than in a car.

The real question is WHAT KIND OF RIDING DO YOU PLAN TO DO???

Do you want to do twisties? Do you want to street race? Wheelies? Stunting? Commuter.

For your first bike I'd avoid a race bike all together.

I'd get something like a Suzuki SV650s(Most fun bike I've ridden including 600s and R1s). They handle better than your crotch rockets and are great for mountain running becuase of the low end TQ with it being a V-twin. We topped my friend's bike out (Buddy weighing 200lbs) at 147mph on a Hot Georgia Day going down the interstate. Or the FZ6 would be an equivilent of the SV650. Though I've heard the Suzukis are a little better. The are also great wheelie bikes too and sound great.

Honda 599s are really nice too. It's a naked bike but you sit on it like a crotch rocket. There is also another Yamaha bike that is like the R6 except it is much heavier and I think a little less powerful. Basically Yamaha's answer to the Suzuki Katana. That would make a great beginner bike but still looks like a crotch rocket.

As for wether new or used. Go used all the way. Get as cheap as possible too. You can pick up older R6s, CBRs, etc for next to nothing. Plus if you pay cash and have it paid off Liability insurance is really cheap. With a clean record a new R6 is going to be like a vehicle payment. Plus at some point and time you are going to drop your bike. You'll cry a little less whe you do with a used one.

But again what kind of riding do you want to do? And do you have any riding experience "ATVs, Dirtbikes, Scooters, etc"?

[yoda]

chrisw, I have noted your conclusions about the R1 and the comparison to the R6.

The 07, R1 has a reduced frame rigidity compared to earlier models, (for reasons I cannot fathom and I don't think Yamaha are right on this) which might explain it's lack of handling. For this reason the R1 does not seem to have purpose. It does not handle as well, it's not a tourer and it doesn't cafe race.

When dealing with loaded structures, I was taught that to control the actions of the subassemblies the basic structure requires to be ridged. That allows for other components to work acccordingly ie the rear susphension and swing arm. Hanging the front forks off a twisting frame does not seem logical to me as the loading on the steering head is enormous under heavy braking and cornering. How are the forks supposed to be used if the structure is doing some of the work for them?

So perhaps the R1 is there and is going somewhere but in which direction, who knows.

[daboz1323]

i had a dirtbiike. abd still have a smaller 110 (hard to fit on ) but other than the rider course and that i have none. So do these bikes not do high speeds well? I will probably like to corner but theres not many places i can do that kinda riding cept near the highway at night. as far as top speed which 600 or 650cc is fastest?

[yoda]

Both the R1 and R6 are well handling bikes.

I don't understand your question about the 600 or 650 being fastest.

[atlantasmittie84]

I think he was referring to my comment about other potential bikes. In it I mentioned the Suzuki SV650s which has a 650cc motor.

The 650motor is a v-twin and doesn't have the power of an inline 4cyle bike like the R6. The Vtwin is extremely tqy low end but not as powerful as the I4s. But they are better suited for city and mountain riding because of the low end torque. It's not too far behind the 600s so it is still pretty quick.

[chrisw]

Flex in the frame is a good thing and to have a very stiff frame and swingarm would make a bike handle crap. The flex has to be controlled though, and therefore carefully engineered into the design.

A good example of this is Racers (pedal bikes), I know a group of lads who went out into the Pyrennees on them and 3 of them had Carbon fibre frames, which were very stiff, going down hills none of the carbon bikes would turn the corners which caught them out to begin with until they learnt how much slower they had to go to get round them compared to the lightweight steel frames.

Yamaha have been doing some R&D on forms that have built in sideways suspension as when your leaning into a corner, the normal telescopic action doesn't pick up small bumps and the whole bike lifts instead.

Personally though, I'm worried about some of your comments as you seem very focussed on top speed and as a newbie rider you could land yourself in a whole heap of shit.

An SV650 is a bit dull to ride compared to the R6 and R1, it's a whole different category. If you were experianced I'd maybe say the R1 as you don't think your going to get much chance to get in the twisties, so my choice would be the R6 for you, it's still plenty fast enough but will be more forgiving and easier to control.

Whatever you decide, just take it steady to begin with, now you've passed your test you've got to learn to ride which is different, you need to learn the bike and what it's saying to you, none of us experienced riders can stress just how important it is to be able to read what the bike is wanting to tell you, whether it be under heavy braking or fast cornering. Don't go being daft and end up another statistic.