Variomatic Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 After spending all of last night rebuilding it, and all of this morning bolting everything else back on I filled it with some cheap 10w40 and fired it up. Now it's making a taping noise, think of the sound a valve makes when it's out of adjustment. It's like that sound, coming from the cylinder/bottom end, and it makes it only on the power stroke. I don't have the slightest idea, anyone else have a clue?
slice Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 Cam chain tensioner perhaps? Some take a while to get the tension right. How about the timing rotor they can be noisy. Or worse case a sticky link in the cam chain? Can't think of anything else off the top of my head. Just thought, does it do it when the clutch is pulled in? Thinking primary chain or cage rattle.
Variomatic Posted March 17, 2016 Author Posted March 17, 2016 52 minutes ago, slice said: Cam chain tensioner perhaps? Some take a while to get the tension right. How about the timing rotor they can be noisy. Or worse case a sticky link in the cam chain? Can't think of anything else off the top of my head. Just thought, does it do it when the clutch is pulled in? Thinking primary chain or cage rattle. Could be actually, the cam chain did slip off the bottom sprocket, had to wrangle it back over with gentle help from screw driver, I'll take the top cam cover off and check the tension. I'm 90% sure it's nice and tight, I couldn't have assembles it if I though the chain would pop off. I'm almost afraid the cylinder is fucked and it's loose on the piston, but I don't think so because the compression is MUCH higher and all tolerances are tighter now. I used all genuine Yamaha parts by the way so it's not a parts problem. No primary chain, primary is grear drive, but I'll go for a careful ride and see what happens. Also I'll go see if it happens when the clutch is pulled in.
Variomatic Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 Jesus Bloody Christ I had a scare, this tap was concerning, I was riding and suddenly the bike made the most concerning screech, grind, and then the engine died. Well fuck. Residing my self to having killed my bike I look down, the drive chain was snapped, confused I click it into neutral and click the starter and the engine fired right up heasily. I though I'd blown her up, thank god it was just a chain and managed to not crack a hole in the case. What are the chances eh? Bloody master links.
Moderator Cynic Posted March 18, 2016 Moderator Posted March 18, 2016 You were lucky, I have a friend with the ugliest scar on his leg from a chain failing, it can cause total disaster and I don't mean cracking an engine case. It can lock the wheel and throw you down the road, that could quite easily be fatal. Aside from injuries like Pauls. (not airhead). You MUST keep a check on your chain, I change mine early, long before it reaches the limits of the chain adjusters. If I can lift it more than half a tooth or there is a stiff link or 2 that take more than a passing squirt of pj1 I bin it. I have seen the consequences. I know of people that remove links when they run out of adjustment and wait till the sprockets are so worn the chain can jump teeth. Its not worth it, learn chain care now, (esp after your first hand scare, teaches more than any book/forum) on the puddle jumper and you will be set for the bigger bikes. 1
slice Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Bad luck mate but to carry on with this "ticking " noise is it like this? https://youtu.be/Q0z63ymu4eA Can you video it and put it up on here, it's always easier if you can see and hear what's going on.
Variomatic Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 9 hours ago, Cynic said: You were lucky, I have a friend with the ugliest scar on his leg from a chain failing, it can cause total disaster and I don't mean cracking an engine case. It can lock the wheel and throw you down the road, that could quite easily be fatal. Aside from injuries like Pauls. (not airhead). You MUST keep a check on your chain, I change mine early, long before it reaches the limits of the chain adjusters. If I can lift it more than half a tooth or there is a stiff link or 2 that take more than a passing squirt of pj1 I bin it. I have seen the consequences. I know of people that remove links when they run out of adjustment and wait till the sprockets are so worn the chain can jump teeth. Its not worth it, learn chain care now, (esp after your first hand scare, teaches more than any book/forum) on the puddle jumper and you will be set for the bigger bikes. I'm on top with my chain care, it's keep as clean as I can keep it and as well lubricated as I can keep it, I'm perplexed as to why it failed. I had a chain pop off and lock the rear about a year ago, since then I've been very careful with my chain. When I got home I checked the sprockets, chain alignment, chain condition, all where ok. But there's still a high chance this was my fault. I know a guy who lcoked the back end with a popped chain going round a long sweeping bend with his wife on the back whilst doing about 80, somehow he kept it upright for the entire way and didn't drop it, everyone was utterly amazed that he didn't kill himself, hasn't got back on a bike since. 5 hours ago, slice said: Bad luck mate but to carry on with this "ticking " noise is it like this? https://youtu.be/Q0z63ymu4eA Can you video it and put it up on here, it's always easier if you can see and hear what's going on. Not like that, it's not rod knock, when i took the head off I checked the bottom end bearing and it's perfectly serviceable, no play at all. I've tried taking a video but you simply can't hear the ticking over the sound of the engine running. I'm perplexed, I've checked the cam chain tensioner and it's all good, all the valves are adjusted perfectly, brand new piston, cylinder honed, everything tightened to the correct torque setting. AND to top it off after I fixed and inspected my chain just now I started it our of curiosity and the knock was non existent. {EDIT} Do you think perhaps it could be piston slap? That would make sense since I reused an old cylinder, but on the other hand I could still see the factory hone marks all the way round the cylinder.
slice Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Only way to tell is to have measured it while you had it apart really, doubtful but if it's gone then don't worry about it, if it comes back then think about it again, as I said it can take a while for the tensioner to fully get the chain settled it might just be you've moved something or even freed something sticky up, the joys of motorcycling, low tick over can also sometimes make a ticking noise the piston is to slow in the barrel and it rattles, try turning the revs up by a couple of hundred and see if that helps next time it appears. Well done anyway to get it all sorted and back on the road.
Variomatic Posted March 19, 2016 Author Posted March 19, 2016 *sigh* The tap is back, but now only at higher RPM. I'm tempted to just ignore the blasted thing, it's seriously winding me up. when I took the head apart the valve clearance where all out (odd, only adjusted them recently) and one of my cams was a little scored, but not enough to warrant a replacement. Maybe that was it, I really don't know.
slice Posted March 19, 2016 Posted March 19, 2016 Ok well that's odd, if it was me I would try an engine flush, means you have to throw away your new oil but it might be just something gunged up. You say the valves were out after you had adjusted them, is it possible you did them wrong like 180 degrees out? A scored cam usually means it was to tight which is why I ask. Just throwing ideas out there really, bit of a bastard mate, not a good idea to ignore these sort of things they turn round and bite you in the arse if you leave them usually when your right in a place where you don't want to break down. As it's moved (the noise) ! is it exactly the same type of noise or something different? All else fails video the thing and let us have listen, you never know it might be obvious to someone.
Moderator Cynic Posted March 19, 2016 Moderator Posted March 19, 2016 I agree its odd. When you say the vlaves were out. Which way? Tight or loose. Not uncommon for the valve adjustmens to seem all to whack after the first run. Its just things settling in, oil taking up clearances etc. The good news is the 'only at high rpm' part. Means its more likely not mechanical. Could just be pinking a little.
Variomatic Posted March 20, 2016 Author Posted March 20, 2016 16 hours ago, slice said: Ok well that's odd, if it was me I would try an engine flush, means you have to throw away your new oil but it might be just something gunged up. You say the valves were out after you had adjusted them, is it possible you did them wrong like 180 degrees out? A scored cam usually means it was to tight which is why I ask. Just throwing ideas out there really, bit of a bastard mate, not a good idea to ignore these sort of things they turn round and bite you in the arse if you leave them usually when your right in a place where you don't want to break down. As it's moved (the noise) ! is it exactly the same type of noise or something different? All else fails video the thing and let us have listen, you never know it might be obvious to someone. The amount of money I have between now, and one week from now is £0.00. Getting rid of this tap is top of my list of priority but if I don't have the money then I simply don't have the money. Every penny I had was spent on tools and engine components. I'm 100% sure they're not 180 degrees out, I lined the top cam sprocket with the timing mark, and aligned the timing marks on the startor correctly, but I'll check them tomorrow just in case. Problem is to check the valve clearance I need a 24mm spanner, I have a socket bit it doesn't clear the frame so I can't adjust them till I can but a spanner of said size. God forbid Yamaha make it a common size nut on the adjuster cap. 14 hours ago, Cynic said: I agree its odd. When you say the vlaves were out. Which way? Tight or loose. Not uncommon for the valve adjustmens to seem all to whack after the first run. Its just things settling in, oil taking up clearances etc. The good news is the 'only at high rpm' part. Means its more likely not mechanical. Could just be pinking a little. Bad news, the tick is back at idle, the way this tick is so "tappy" and sporadic makes me think something is out of adjustment. The exhaust had half the specified clearance and the other was a just little tight, I adjusted them perfectly when the head was of but I can't check them again till I get a new spanner as I said above, it might be that now oil has circulated and it's all tightened down it's not quite happy with what I previously set. I'm praying this is the issue because this is a very simply fix. when I first fired it up, as in the first 2-3 seconds it sounded perfect with no taps what so ever, I'm guessing after oil got to the top end it changed something ever so slightly. But like I've said, every penny of my last payment was spent on engine bits and I have no more money at all for another week. I might have to throw caution to the wind and take a pair of grips to the valve adjustment caps, I can't ignore this. I'm also pondering if one of my cams could actually be gouged, since you can't take my cam out of the head without a slide hammer I had to try and see what condition they where in looking past the valve springs, I may have missed something, perhaps they are in dire need of replacement. The tap is new, meaning it's something I've done
slice Posted March 20, 2016 Posted March 20, 2016 Well that's a pretty pickle to be in, where are you in the world cos I have a 24mil spanner your more than welcome to borrow mate. a 15/16th spanner is also a near fit if you have one of those? Mole grips will work as long as your careful to use the flats on the nut/bolt, you only chew them up if your bearing down on the wrong part, sure you know this, I'll even post you the spanner if it helps.
Variomatic Posted March 20, 2016 Author Posted March 20, 2016 8 hours ago, slice said: Well that's a pretty pickle to be in, where are you in the world cos I have a 24mil spanner your more than welcome to borrow mate. a 15/16th spanner is also a near fit if you have one of those? Mole grips will work as long as your careful to use the flats on the nut/bolt, you only chew them up if your bearing down on the wrong part, sure you know this, I'll even post you the spanner if it helps. Thanks mate but it'd be faster to just wait and buy one, thanks for the offer though Today I took the timing cover off and inspected the cam chain and top sprocket, nothing hanging up there, took them off and the cam turns smoothly, I'm starting to think it's the most monumentally large valve clearance tap that's ever graced a motorcycle, it can't be piston slap, can't be rod bearings, so by trial and error it must be the valves. If it is that it's not a huge thing to worry about 1
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