captf Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 A consolutation paper regarding modernisation of the CBT I'll post highlights once I get a chance to read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captf Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 The main parts of this pretty much seem to recognise that riders on CBT are more likely to be in an accident than those who have passed any of the tests, especially the younger riders [19% of casualties are of those 19 and under]. And that the testing rate for young riders is abysmal - 6% With that, I think they see there is a definite link. There is a point that young riders tend to know nothing about the highway code. Unlike a car, it can't be easily taught as it happens. They are proposing that a trainee must have reasonable knowledge before the practical section of the course. But they are not requiring a theory test to have been completed prior. They are instead thinking about making it a known point that you are expected to have at least an understanding of the Code, as well as improve training facilities for instructors to assist where needed. It seems they want it to be clear to the trainees on the level they need to reach to complete the CBT, and to understand that not everyone learns at the same pace, and that the on-road riding is allowed to go on for longer than 2 hours. With that, they understand they need to push away from the CBT being seen as a one day course, and that it may require multiple. This is particularly relevant for young riders, very few of whom go on to take a motorcycle test, a situation that may be an unintended consequence of the 3rd Directive, which limits the size and power of machines that younger riders can ride There's no "may" about it. It's a bi-product of the 3rd Directive and the CBT. Most other EU countries don't have it, so the A1 was the entry level "on the bike on the road". But, oh... this is interesting: Progressive Access The 3rd Driving Licence Directive makes provision for progressive access to riding larger motorcycles by way of training. At the time we consulted on those and other matters, the costs to develop IT systems to record riders’ training progression were prohibitive and this option was rejected. There were also concerns about the framework to enable this training to be quality assured. Since then, and particularly following themerger of DSA and VOSA, to form DVSA, there are other IT systems available which may offer potential. It may be possible to adapt one of the existing systems to recordthe progressive training So, they're saying they now have the capabilities to get rid of the multiple tests to improve licence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sorry but when you read "We expect this to be introduced on a VOLUNTARY basis" then you know they are pissing into the wind and just being seen to "Do something" Fiddling with the rules is NOT doing something it's counterproductive and lends itself to all sorts of abuses. Thank you Captf for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captf Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 From what I could gather, they want to introduce it voluntary first, while pushing for the important parts to become legislation at a later date. Staggering it allows for a smoother transition. Ultimately though, yeah; there'll be unscrupulous schools that will abuse or ignore the stuff, just to get more money, while showing no regard for who they put on the roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Variomatic Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I have no doubt this will be poorly implimented and cause a contravorsy somewhere down the line. I maintain that you should have to take lessons and a test as you do in a car. 125 at 16, 250cc between 17 and 19, then whatever you want with another test. And just scrap the CBT. Bikes are far more dangerous than cars, so why the hell do we let idiots like me on the road with 2-4 hours on road experiance and some trundling round a car park? And expect them to be adiquatly trained to deal with stuff as complex as a magic round about? Or even inner city traffic? So why do we treat motorcycles as if they are toys? The CBT is an outdated idea and should be removed compleatly. (Yes I ride on a CBT, think of that what you will) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Nothing wrong with CBT as such, I for instance got my first bike when I was 16 200cc Fanny "B" and then onto other more horrid Brit bikes but all over 200cc, the problem is that they make 125cc bikes that do 100mph+ now it does make you ask WTF are they thinking doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captf Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 The concept of the CBT is good - and was an improvement over the nothing that existed before it. But road conditions have also changed; drivers are paying less attention, speeding more [at least it seems like it], and getting more impatient. Kids [anything under 25 is a kid (: ] aren't able to afford a car [insurance is ridiculous now, and fuel prices ain't what they used to be] as easily to get any road experience that way, so their first real taste of traffic is on their CBT. And they have no knowledge of the highway code. 2 hours on the road just isn't enough to prepare them for riding solo. In discussions elsewhere, I'm seeing people say that the CBT should be abolished, and you have to sit the full test to get on the road, much like it is in the rest of europe. Or that you have to pass your theory test before you can take the CBT. But, at least we're not Denmark... you need 29 lessons on theory, and 22 lessons of driving, with a mimimum of 5 of those for the mod 1 moves... [a lesson is 45 minutes] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neversaydie Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 but still interesting to note the driving test remains much the same. Pass your test at 17 and any car you like is yours (if you can afford it) plus too many distractions in the cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captf Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 plus too many distractions in the cockpit Especially these days. Paying more attention to the satnav than the road signs and traffic in front. Chatting on their phone, or texting someone... Watching a DVD on a laptop beside them. [seriously] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve 1052cc Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 The problem with off road training is it is just that all it can ever do is give the new rider the very basics of riding a bike. Perhaps in the CBT there should be a compulsory amount of hours on road training. Having been an instructor though a few years ago you can only teach so much, hopefully enough to keep new rider out of trouble until they made their mistakes and have learnt by them. I agree with training for new riders, but it must be remembered good as most instructors are they don't possess a magic wand which can be waved to instantly provide the experience that builds up over many years, and dare I say it a few of those experiences are often very painful I know some of mine were. One piece of advice I was given when I started riding was treat all other road users as complete idiots and you wont often be disappointed. I think a licence in stages as for motorcyclist depending on age would be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Variomatic Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Nothing wrong with CBT as such, I for instance got my first bike when I was 16 200cc Fanny "B" and then onto other more horrid Brit bikes but all over 200cc, the problem is that they make 125cc bikes that do 100mph+ now it does make you ask WTF are they thinking doing that. As I have stated many times, you are all mistaken, the power limit on a 125 under a CBT is 14.6Hp, you cannot, on hell or earth do 100mph with that little power. Unless you want a custom made motorcycle that weighs 2 grams and will be unable to get an MOT even for all the lip service in the world. The bikes you refer to are things such ad a Honda NSR or an Aprillia RS125, these are 2 strokes, they make a lot of power, to be ride under a CBT you need to have them limited down to basically nothing, and be lucky to hit 75 with a decent tail wind. And a 4 stroke 125? HA! 4 stroke may be the king of the road, but if you strangle it with that displacment it's about as powerful as a mouse fart or a gentle breez. Good luck doing 100mph in a 4 stroke 125 on an MOT and road worthy bike. I keep hearing people rant about 100mph bikes on a CBt and I'm getting mighty sick of it. You can NOT do 100mph on a CBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Nothing wrong with CBT as such, I for instance got my first bike when I was 16 200cc Fanny "B" and then onto other more horrid Brit bikes but all over 200cc, . Got to agree Slice, got my first bike at 16, no training what so ever, didn't have a clue how to ride, had a rough idea about cluch etc, so just got on and gave it a go. Fuck knows how I stayed alive that first week but I did but there were many that didn't last very long. CBT may be lacking in many ways but it's more than I had way back when and remember CBT = compulsory BASIC training. At least riders are not allowed on roads totally clueless like I was when I first started riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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