up.yours Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 nope ! as one that has been on the receiving end of a driver (POLICE OFFICER) not paying attention not giving way not observing etc,etc i have no sympathy , i look i listen i gave way , why shouldn't he. it was his actions that caused the crash , not the speeding biker . i was traveling at 28 mph i still have a slight limp my ankle randomly collapses and my knee hurts , all because some tosspot copper in my case didn't give way. as for" Iff he was traveling slower ie 30 40mph the combined speed of both would still most likely have killed him. bearing in mind a fall from a curb could kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bippo Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 That is worrying, I think theres a lot of eyesight issues nowadays, I think a test every 3 years should be compulsory Bye the way " I"v watched it 5 times , how can they tell its 90+mph , I canna read speedo.. Yeah, not denying it, sure is worrying...! I got into riding because of a SMIDSY when I was a pillion, and the car driver not caring. My reason was to overcome my own fear of bikes, but to also show car drivers that bikers aren't complete pillocks. Most of us do a great job of that, but on some of the more specific forums I'm also on I see a high level of arrogance who assume everyone is wrong but them. The posting of this video has only exacerbated this. Their opinions won't help the biking community in the long term, and is the main reason why I stick around on this forum. Generally filled with normal human beings who don't take things too seriously or believe they are better than everyone else*. * although I'm clearly better than everyone, just because... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bippo Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 it was his actions that caused the crash , not the speeding biker ./quote] And if you read what I'm saying, I'm not denying that point Kev. I agree completely that the car driver caused the accident. With regards to the biker speeding (excessively), personally I don't care. We all like to speed. However I do believe that played a part in his death over complete avoidance, or injury. I'm not one of those people wanting to stop people from having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up.yours Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 so what about my point of combined speed. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bippo Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 so what about my point of combined speed. ! I think I've covered that as best as possible by saying that his speed "played a part in his death". I'm not saying that it was a definite cause of him not getting back up after the accident. I accept that a slower speed could still have killed him, in no post have I said that he would have definitely walked away from being 'sensible'. At the end of the day, humans aren't designed for such an impact, so it boils down to luck and circumstance. My SMIDSY as a pillion left me with crutches, an operation, copious hospital visits, 6 months of physio and, 10 years later, a knee that aches near constantly and can't be fully straightened. That was a 40mph crash, but my knee isn't designed to withstand a steel Merc bonnet. Mind you, how would I have faired if we were doing 90? Not very well I'm guessing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacerOnline Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 - We discussed this on another forum, too. My personal opinion is the death (as far as human judgement can tell) is 100% the rider's fault. The crash was at least 70% the rider's fault. - As has already been pointed out, if he hadn't been driving at an unsafe speed, it's very likely he would still be alive today. The speed limit is there because experts have determined that is the max speed the average driver can do and still have time to react to a possible but unexpected circumstance on that stretch of road. I like to go fast, too, but if I see a car waiting to turn my direction, I always at least roll off the throttle and prepare for the worst knowing it could happen. On top of that, there was just too much traffic on that little road for that speed to ever be safe, anyway. It was just complete foolishness on his part. He didn't DESERVE to die because of it, but he did cause it. - The accident was caused by the car stealing the right of way, of course. Plus, the driver admitted he didn't see him or the next car, so obviously he was likely to cause an accident. However, bikes can be hard to see sometimes, anyway. Having one headlight also makes it much harder to judge distance (think about how a car's headlights appear to spread farther apart as it gets closer). If that bike is in front of a car that has its headlights on, it can be even easier to mistake his one headlight as the car's second. How much harder is it to spot that bike when it's travelling nearly twice as fast as you're expecting? - Of course, the driver deserved the punishment since he admitted not seeing either; inexcusable to not at least see the car, let alone the bike. However, even if the driver had been paying attention, he still might not have seen the bike in time because of his speed. The driver caused the accident, but the rider created the possibility for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up.yours Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 - We discussed this on another forum, too. My personal opinion is the death (as far as human judgement can tell) is 100% the rider's fault. The crash was at least 70% the rider's fault. - As has already been pointed out, if he hadn't been driving at an unsafe speed, it's very likely he would still be alive today. The speed limit is there because experts have determined that is the max speed the average driver can do and still have time to react to a possible but unexpected circumstance on that stretch of road. I like to go fast, too, but if I see a car waiting to turn my direction, I always at least roll off the throttle and prepare for the worst knowing it could happen. On top of that, there was just too much traffic on that little road for that speed to ever be safe, anyway. It was just complete foolishness on his part. He didn't DESERVE to die because of it, but he did cause it. - The accident was caused by the car stealing the right of way, of course. Plus, the driver admitted he didn't see him or the next car, so obviously he was likely to cause an accident. However, bikes can be hard to see sometimes, anyway. Having one headlight also makes it much harder to judge distance (think about how a car's headlights appear to spread farther apart as it gets closer). If that bike is in front of a car that has its headlights on, it can be even easier to mistake his one headlight as the car's second. How much harder is it to spot that bike when it's travelling nearly twice as fast as you're expecting? - Of course, the driver deserved the punishment since he admitted not seeing either; inexcusable to not at least see the car, let alone the bike. However, even if the driver had been paying attention, he still might not have seen the bike in time because of his speed. The driver caused the accident, but the rider created the possibility for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacerOnline Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Collision: caused by car driver Death: caused by biker's foolishness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up.yours Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 100% car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 First both driver were at falut but the driver of the car was most at fault,for entering a intersection without making sure it was safe! We all speed in our cars or on our bikes so that is null and void! The fact that he failed to see that if he had turned right he could have possibly made it around and back in before the oncomming used that space is the big question,if he had many years for experience then he might have been tired and not seen that oprounity? 22 or 38 make's little difference,we all speed.! We have a speed limit of 60mph 100 kph in ontario and NOBODY uses it on the freeway most are doing 130-140.Many in cars have been ticketed for 200.+ This is more of a case of common sence,1 the car dirver should have looked closer before turning.2nd the bike rider should not have been in such a hurry to get ??? and he would still be alive. The bike driver could have avoided the accident by using the oncomming lane had he been going a reasonable speed for the road,the careless driver could have just not turned infront of the bike driver. The people who set speed limits generaly set them after years of study,,, that if going x speed here tends to cause accidents ,,,,so wel lower it in a attempt to save lives. So to all my biking friends please use your COMMEN sence when and where you choose to speed,keep your head up and think of where your going to go always when riding. Better to be late than dead! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lallasro Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 the first 2 things I learn when I was to take my CBT was those: 1. look where you want to go 2. ride like you are invisible. on the road you can meet a lot of idiots, is your duty to care about you. the rider have no excuse for riding like this. the driver create an accident, the rider make suicide. I can`t understand why he don`t lower the speed when he saw the car tacking position for changing direction... ok, maybe he don`t see the right signal, but you can see the f car tacking position on the road for changing direction. personally I think the punishment for the driver must be over 5 years in a f jail and never allowed to drive again. blind people must not drive a car. the law in UK is so... soft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy xs Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Probably the last to see this, just feel so sorry for all those concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewElvisFan Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Like Bippo I don't normally get drawn into these discussions. Everyone has their own opinions. The facts are relatively simple here though. The biker was speeding. The biker was overtaking just before a junction, using chevrons. The car driver did not observe correctly before committing to his manoeuvre. I believe that the biker would still be alive today had he not had been riding recklessly. He would have been behind the other car and would probably have had opportunity to avoid the collision. The number of times I have nearly been taken out because of other road users lack of concentration is scary and I know that had I been going faster I'd be on Tarmac. Like most people I do not always adhere to speed limits but, there are places which I refuse to - approach to junctions is just one of them. On this particular bit of road you have 2 junctions which means you have at least 3 chances of someone pulling out on you plus the possibility of someone having to stop if the exit was blocked. So - in my opinion - the biker died because he was speeding and was not riding to the conditions of the road and the collision was caused because the car driver did not double check the route was clear before turning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up.yours Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 it doesn't matter what speed the bike was doing, i watched this clip again , the speed of the car along with the drivers negligent attitude would have killed a pedestrian let alone an oncoming motorcycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacerOnline Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 it doesn't matter what speed the bike was doing, i watched this clip again , the speed of the car along with the drivers negligent attitude would have killed a pedestrian let alone an oncoming motorcycle. - I watched it several times, too, and I respectfully disagree. The car couldn't have been doing more than 20-25 mph around that corner, if that much. That soft-suspension commuter would have been seriously body-rolling and likely tire-squealing if it were. - Besides, that's kind of a useless point. It's not about whether he could have survived the impact if he were going slower. It surely would be more likely, but still not a guarantee. The point is that if he were travelling even a respectable speed, let alone the limit, he probably could have avoided it altogether. - Like I said, it's the car driver's fault he was where he shouldn't be to cause the collision, but it's the rider's foolishness that cost him his life. - The point is: always ride assuming everyone else is trying to kill you. If you roll the dice that other drivers care more about you than being late for work, it's your own game of Russian Roulette. They may have loaded the gun, but you put it to your own head & pulled the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve 1052cc Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 What ever the speed of the bike and I don't excuse his speed or where he did it, the car driver caused the rider to die by his negligence to take proper observations at a junction. The speed simply made death or serious life changing injuries inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Cynic Posted September 15, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 15, 2014 This is getting ott now. Its not them and us. We all use the roads. There is not a single road user who at some point has not had some sort of,"Fuck me where did that come from" moment. Second to that. This very morning i have seen 3 bikers that without the actions of cars would be in hospital at least. All pushing for gaps in traffic at speed. We have all done it. Playing the odds is part of why we ride. Nobody was right or wrong in this, everybody loses. The car driver. The biker. Familys etc. The message from the video for me is to be more aware of the dangers. Not play the blame game, with content as strong as this video petty finger pointing is at best innapropriate. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacerOnline Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 - Oh, I agree. My very point is that we are "playing the odds" every time we ride. It's not actually us vs them, but since they have a cage and we don't, it's our responsibility to ride like it IS us vs them. We hope they're as human as us and care enough to pay attention so they don't kill anyone else. However, we have to assume they won't because one slip up is no big deal for them, but it's death for us. - I'm not "petty finger pointing". I want the same thing the parents said they want; for riders who don't think this way to take this as a wake up call and be more careful. We're always "playing the odds", but if we're smart enough to leave ourselves an "out" in every situation we can, that seriously increases the odds of our survival. This rider's mistake was not leaving himself any escape from this, which sealed his death. Learn from it; leave yourself an out, and when you end up in this situation, you may not completely avoid a crash, but at least you can live through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noise Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Very well said cynic, this is pretty much what i said to all the bike haters on that thing called Facebook. everyone jumping on mine and my mates back trying to get us to stop riding because of this but as this video very clearly shows is that this incedent was the doings of BOTH the car and bikers actions. Yes the biker was speeding and over took on a junction (Mistake No1) he then didn't roll off the throttle at the junction to reduce momentum and anticipate a car pulling out (mistake No2) plus he must have seen the car at the cross road. car driver obviously didn't stop and look (Mistake No3) and the rest is done. As said we all do it, we all have head fuck moments and yippee here we go moments which has already been said, this is why most of us ride, for the moments that make us smile / shit our selves and make our shitter clench so tight that you can feel it in your throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up.yours Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 and on this note !! im out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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