Clutchless shifting

[bippo]

Hope I'm posting this in the right area...

So, I'm looking for some advice from you knowledgeable bunch. Basically, I've been messing about with clutchless shifting on my Tiger. I'm able to upshift through the gears smoothly and faster than using the clutch. However, I was wondering a couple of things:

1. I read on the net about people saying not to clutchless shift between 1st and 2nd. Is there any reason for this?

2. Does this method cause any problems long term? I know everything wears over time, but is it damaging the transmission prematurely in anyway? I'm reading a lot of "for and against" which is just confusing me somewhat.

3. Should I even be getting into the habit of doing this or am I picking up a bad habit? I'm not opposed to using the clutch at all, just found it fun learning this!

Regarding down-shifting, well I'm struggling with that one - is anyone able to give me any tips as I'd like to understand the technique.

Thanks in advance.

[drewpy]

downshifting is just trying to match engine speed with rear wheel speed by blipping the throttle. catch it right and it happens.

the 1st and 2nd gear change is probably due to the large amount of torque going through the box which could damage the dogs if your gunning it regularly. normal riding, its not such an issue.

I still use the clutch out of habit

[Tommy xs]

downshifting is just trying to match engine speed with rear wheel speed by blipping the throttle. catch it right and it happens.

the 1st and 2nd gear change is probably due to the large amount of torque going through the box which could damage the dogs if your gunning it regularly. normal riding, its not such an issue.

I still use the clutch out of habit

clutch is there for a reason unless its broke use it

[Ttaskmaster]

When I shift up fast, I apply upward pressure to preload the shift lever, just as you would with the clutchless method.

However, my biting point is right out at the natural extent of my fingers, which is happily about a half-inch in from the lever at rest. Makes great feathering, too.

So, when I shift, I have only to bring the clutch in a touch and immediately release, usually with a slight throttle reduction at the same time and it is smooth as anthing.

Works very nicely under most loads.

Was taught it on DAS.

[lallasro]

you will damage the gearbox faster than normal if you don`t use the clutch... if you are lucky. use the clutch. also I saw lot of drivers-riders using the clutch to keep the car-bike stoped uphill, this is another bad idea.

[Noise]

Reason with clutchless shifting between 1st and 2nd is that there is the big hole of nothing nuss gear (nuetral) and if your giving it the shit off the line and smake her into nuetral then all you get is a loud noise coming from the engine and blushed cheeks (along with the normal fucks and bollocks) as soon as your in 2nd you can knock her up the box (WHEY!!!! ) and off you go.

If done right with little crunching and nasty sounds then you shouldn't be cocking up the clutch but if your doing it on a daily basis and have the legs and co ordination of an epileptic gibbon then your going to screw it up faster than normal. So when i clutchless shift i only do so on motorways and duel carridge ways as i want to get as much speed as fast a poss on them slip roads so the dick in the BMW dont dry ram my star fish.

Its not bad habbit in my mind as long as its not done ALL the time, as said M-ways and Duel carridge ways are the best times to use it but in town going past weatehr spoons you look a cock when you fuck up (1st - 2nd gear )

As for going down the box, this is what i cant do and dont do, you have to be going so much slower than you think for the syncrodes to line up for it to pop in, and by this time you would have be faster to just pull the clutch, only man ive seen do it was Casey Stoner (i know sorry for bringing in a GP rider) but he pretty much stamped on the peg to jam it down and kicked the back wheel out at the same time, it that really what you wanna do on the road?............................................... actuall that sounds pretty cool

Stay safe hun

[bippo]

That's cool advice, thanks guys. I'm not opposed to using a clutch (otherwise I'd have a moped), but I've seen it mentioned on here a few times.

I also needed to use it once in a crappy old car of mine when the clutch gave out. Managed to bring the car into the town where I live before I stalled the damn thing, so think it's useful to know.

I'm going to continue practicing the downshifts as I'd like to understand how to do it - I'll try going a lot slower than I think Noise!

Regarding up shifts, so far I've practiced it when I've been alone on quiet A or B roads - it won't be replacing my normal riding, but it'll be good to know I can do it. I just want to make sure it's not doing anything worrying to the bike.

[rjh357]

I can go all the way up and down on my old XS 250 and can drop her into natural from second, first if I have to, I do practice from time to time and always have.

It has helped me out 2 times now with broken clutch cables once to get me home from work on a CB100n only 18 month old but cable had been routed wrong way when assembled by bike shop.

The second was all the way from Barmouth in Wales to Stourbridge west midlands again after a cable broke on my CB400N.

For the journey from Wales I left it until until 02.00 in the morning so no traffic, all the way home without stopping. A couple of my mates stayed back and we came home together

Tricky part there is getting going did it on the 100n by starting it running it up to a few MPH and drop into second most only had to stop a couple of times couldn’t do it now 5 stone to heavy and wouldn’t have the energy to push.

On the 400 managed to get it to fire up in first of the starter with a push from one of the mates never needed to go below 2^nd on that trip home.

It is a skill worth knowing as you never know when you might need it but in those days didn’t bother with breakdown insurance just went out and went where I wanted. Today I have the works full return to home etc but it is nice to know I can do it if I need to.

As has been said they didn’t go to the trouble and expense of designing and developing a clutch to add to your engine and power train so always use it, just be practice from time to time and be prepared just in case.

Won’t do any harm if you are skilled at it but will make a right mess of your power train if you get it wrong and keep doing it.

If you try you will be amazed how little you actually need to stop apart from in a city, with anticipation and right gear stops need be minimal in most circumstances

[lallasro]

for down speed bippo, put a small pression on pedal and when you have the right speed the gear will change. just don`t force, leave the bike to chose when is the time... ofcourse you need release the trottle.

[feliks]

Downshifting is easy once you get the hang of it too... clutch in, rev up with just a little blip, kick down a gear, clutch out. Don't dump the clutch, but don't release it slowly either. Keep practicing...it all gets easier. Sounds like you've got enough advice for upshifting here already!

[Cynic]

Clutchless changing riding properly does zero damage. Your matching all the ratio speeds allowing the gears to move without the synchros interfering. Less stress on the drum, forks, engine everything. Its the halfwits banging through using brute force, normally on something with an R in it when doing power wheelies.

Downchange is the same just needs to be done at much lower rpm, out of the power, maybe 4k.

I brought an artic back from plymouth with no clutch, easy when you know how.

[bippo]

Thanks for that Cynic. I am going to continue practicing. I believe I'm doing the upshifts now without any adverse effect - it's incredibly smooth and I'm not hearing any peculiar noises or clunking when doing it. The gear lever always moves freely when I do that. Even when using the clutch I am gentle with the lever and never force it into the next.

I haven't yet practiced the downshifts again, but as you say I need to be going a little slower, as the times I've tried the gear lever hasn't wanted to move so I've not forced it and just carried on using the clutch.

I'm off work tomorrow, I'll be cleaning the bike and giving it a general once over so will have a little practice when I head out for a ride afterwards!

I just want to know how to do it, I've needed it in a crappy old car before, so you never know. My dad was a lorry driver and taught me. I understand the concept, just need to bring my revs down and hopefully the downshifts will be as easy as the upshifts!

Funnily enough this was incredibly easy on my YBR, or maybe that was because the gearbox had no feel... I'm still so new to all this biking malark...!

Thanks again.

[up.yours]

Clutchless changing riding properly does zero damage. Your matching all the ratio speeds allowing the gears to move without the synchros interfering. Less stress on the drum, forks, engine everything. Its the halfwits banging through using brute force, normally on something with an R in it when doing power wheelies.

Downchange is the same just needs to be done at much lower rpm, out of the power, maybe 4k.

I brought an artic back from plymouth with no clutch, easy when you know how.

you mean me dontcha...