How NOT to Take a Corner

[drewpy]

that's what I said

[feliks]

Thanks for the input guys! Appreciate it all... Riding is definitely a learning process and I'm learning more and more every day!

I got my copy of "A Twist of the Wrist II" in yesterday and it already has a lot of great tips, everyone should have a copy of this book! Plan to take some riding lessons come springtime to get a good foundation to start from as well.

[dt502001]

Kieth Code has writen the best books by far twist of the wrist is more than 20 yrs old now but every lesson is still applicable.Read it cover to cover now durring the winter and then in the spring go out and review each chapter and do each lesson. Thats the best way to get the most out of his teachings,read ,apply read apply.

Personaly I think it should be a manditory read for every new rider,,anyone who I have convinced to read it have all become better riders because of reading it .It gives you a better mental understanding of what happening and how to change it to your favourwhen you plan goes wrong.

YOU ONLY HAVE A DOLLAR SO SPEND IT WISELY

The soft sicence of road racing is the next 1 to get ,if you want you can borrow mine as long as I get it back

[rzresurection]

Kieth Code has writen the best books by far twist of the wrist is more than 20 yrs old now but every lesson is still applicable.Read it cover to cover now durring the winter and then in the spring go out and review each chapter and do each lesson. Thats the best way to get the most out of his teachings,read ,apply read apply.

Personaly I think it should be a manditory read for every new rider,,anyone who I have convinced to read it have all become better riders because of reading it .It gives you a better mental understanding of what happening and how to change it to your favourwhen you plan goes wrong.

 

YOU ONLY HAVE A DOLLAR SO SPEND IT WISELY

 

The soft sicence of road racing is the next 1 to get ,if you want you can borrow mine as long as I get it back

Great book. I remember reading it back in 1988 (or somewhere around that time period).

It's funny, I remembered it being written by Fast Freddie - oops, wrong on my part. Sorry Feliks, my bad. Once I saw this post, my memory came clean. Thanks DT Lol.

I lent my copy to someone back in '96 and haven't seen it since. I found one to download for free. I'll read that after I get thru reading the Sudco Mikuni tuning manual - exciting read I'm sure.

Jeff

'87 RZ 350

[dt502001]

HAHA I am on my 3rd copy of TOTW funny how people who dont think they can learn how to ride from a book want to keep them, after they learn something and don't want to admit it.

Thanks Felix I actualy opened up the book last night and had a skim read and found the signature for my profile I have been looking for "ride hard and die free" was a little to ??? Boring,Old ________

Holy crap I'm getting older and so are you RZ Jeff FN book was written in 1983 unles you read it as a 5yr old Way back when a 140mm rear tire was HUGE And dunlops were good. Bridgestones were made from rocks,and sliPerliles were only good in the rain.But the me33 metzler ruled for street riding. Dont even know how we rode on biasis tires now been spoiled with radials for so long.

[rzresurection]

HAHA I am on my 3rd copy of TOTW funny how people who dont think they can learn how to ride from a book want to keep them, after they learn something and don't want to admit it.

 

Thanks Felix I actualy opened up the book last night and had a skim read and found the signature for my profile I have been looking for "ride hard and die free" was a little to ???  Boring,Old ________

 

Holy crap I'm getting older and so are you  RZ Jeff FN book was written in 1983 unles you read it as a 5yr old  Way back when a 140mm rear tire was HUGE And dunlops were good. Bridgestones were made from rocks,and sliPerliles were only good in the rain.But the me33 metzler ruled for street riding. Dont even know how we rode on biasis tires now been spoiled with radials for so long.

For sure we're getting older. Im even older than you. Lol. I have you beat by 3 years. I got to read my copy of TOTW when I was 22, just after I got my RZ. I should have bought it when I had my RD, but I was too busy falling off it, pulling wheelies and dumb sh@t like that. Too old for that business now.

Yeah, the big old tires. I was able to squeeze a 130 Micheline Hisport on the rear of my little RZ. I thought that was awesome. Now I have front tire on (the same RZ) that is almost as big as the 130.

The funny part is, I haven't rode on good radials yet. I'll let you know what it feels like this spring. Lol

Jeff

'87 RZ 350

[Ttaskmaster]

TOTW 1 and 2 are a couple quid in the Kindle store, btw...!

[dt502001]

Na I lied about my age were actualy about the same Jeff. 47 in april. and yep same for me trashed a couple of rds before I got my rz and the book LOL.

I went straight from 10 yrs of dirt to road at 16 and though I knew how to ride,after all I could do 6 gear wheelies and jump 60 ft gaps,boy o boy did I learn alot the first few years about pavment and how to read traction from my tires.And how much traffic takes from your thoughts,how much harder it is to find a new line when you have to stay between the paint lines.

Thats good news Taskie they should make it manditory read cheaper than the test book they make you buy here and it fn usless in comparssion. I take it you have read both?

[rzresurection]

Na I lied about my age were actualy about the same Jeff. 47 in april. and yep same for me trashed a couple of rds before I got my rz and the book LOL.

I went straight from 10 yrs of dirt to road at 16 and though I knew how to ride,after all I could do 6 gear wheelies and jump 60 ft gaps,boy o boy did I learn alot the first few years about pavment and how to read traction from my tires.And how much traffic takes from your thoughts,how much harder it is to find a new line when you have to stay between the paint lines.

 

Thats good news Taskie they should make it manditory read cheaper than the test book they make you buy here and it fn usless in comparssion. I take it you have read both?

Pretty close in age for sure. I turn 47 a week today - Merry Birthday and Happy Christmas. Just the way it is having a Bday around this time of year.

I definitely didn't get all that Moto x experience that you had. My RD was my first real bike. I started on the street. It was scary. The first night I rode it home, I went down steep hill and clicked down a few gears - locked the rear totally up and ran it off the road. Haha. Funny looking at it now, but I never did that brown streak outta my tighty whities.

I'm gonna be learning all over again this spring. Well maybe, not totally. I'm not 22 years old anymore. When I drive a cage, I drive it like a bike and am always looking for an out and am always looking 2-3 moves ahead. I don't think you ever lose that skill - unless you just don't care.

I hope to take a new rider course before I start riding again. It can't hurt. I might just pick up some tip that saves my butt.

Jeff

'87 RZ 350

[blackhat250]

Looked at vid a couple of times... i think its a case of Target fixation, you wern"t going fast , if you banked it over - stared thru corner you would have made it, you stared at trees and panicked,

[feliks]

Kieth Code has writen the best books by far twist of the wrist is more than 20 yrs old now but every lesson is still applicable.Read it cover to cover now durring the winter and then in the spring go out and review each chapter and do each lesson. Thats the best way to get the most out of his teachings,read ,apply read apply.

Personaly I think it should be a manditory read for every new rider,,anyone who I have convinced to read it have all become better riders because of reading it .It gives you a better mental understanding of what happening and how to change it to your favourwhen you plan goes wrong.

YOU ONLY HAVE A DOLLAR SO SPEND IT WISELY

The soft sicence of road racing is the next 1 to get ,if you want you can borrow mine as long as I get it back

I'm halfway through the book now...I've already made so many mistakes I had no clue I was making. Definitely a great read and I'd recommend it to everyone who rides. Thanks again for the tip!!

Looked at vid a couple of times... i think its a case of Target fixation, you wern"t going fast , if you banked it over - stared thru corner you would have made it, you stared at trees and panicked,

I'd have to say it was a number of things, target fixation was one of the SR (survival reactions) - chopping the throttle and letting off of it was another - and then finally hitting the brakes....another! BAD combination.... all of those together almost spelled disaster. The only thing that saved me was refocusing on a new target (first it was the pole, then the road...), stayed loose on the handlebars, and lessened the lean angle on the bike. Got away without dumping it, and learned a valuable lesson! Some lessons that can probably save my life in this book too...and from some good tips here!

[dt502001]

Looked at vid a couple of times... i think its a case of Target fixation, you wern"t going fast , if you banked it over - stared thru corner you would have made it, you stared at trees and panicked,

Yep exactly what I said Blackhat It is amazing how many people dont think about if your not looking at where you want to go you will never end up there. And vise versa if your looking at it then you will most likely end up there..All the kids I have tought/ teach I drill it into thier heads DO NOT LOOK WHERE YOU DONT WANT TO GO. Find your escape route with your eyes and your bike will follow more or less most peeps arent using 1/2 of the traction they have when corrnering.The no brake test shows that,if I am just riding around I hardly use the brakes at all,mainly to avoid cages who cut me off,Now if I am carving then thats another story,I can mid corrner brake comfortably at any lean angle,or power drift to square out a corrner.Part of the reason why I dont think a 125 is a good bike to learn on for the street just not enough power.

As Rz jeff said you shouldnt bee thinking about what your doing but 3 steps ahead,if your thinking about what your doing ATM then its too late,your in survival mode just trying not to crash

[feliks]

After thinking about this some more I don't think target fixation had much, if anything to do with it. Had it, I would have HIT those things I was looking at, right? But I didn't.... I was looking at the road and that's why I ended up on the road.

I believe it was a combination of - not steering / leaning enough - chopping the throttle - hitting the brakes - all which lead to the bike not going where I was looking. Once I got back on the throttle smoothly I got control again.

Again...just looking at the video attached to my bike it's hard to tell what I was looking, wish I had it on my helmet! Would have answered more questions. I'm just glad I didn't hit those trees or the pole!

[blackhat250]

Ok , look at your position in the road, your near the centre line as you turn in, this causes you to run wide, ride that corner the next time, keep hard right - then you will exit the turn in middle of road,

[dt502001]

14yr olds who can drive better than most who have a licence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UVEMqOKm8M&list=PLDbSvEZka6GGAXfmVg1EAyFcaA23bNUoX

[feliks]

14 year olds who have been riding longer than me! lol But not for long...give me some more experience and I'll be better!

I've been watching some of those TT races....holy SHIT! Crazy mothers.

[rzresurection]

Check out 'Closer to the Edge', it's a great movie.

Yeah, the TT is a true road race course. Those guys have balls the size of watermelons. It's nuts.

[feliks]

So here's something funny... I was at my mom's last night with my wife for xmas dinner....was just chatting, started talking about motorcycles. My mom rode and her boyfriend also rides a cruiser (Yamaha Maxim's) - I started talking about the Twist of the Wrist book and about how helpful it was to me and all of the ideas and technicalities of riding I've been learning....after a bit of talking my mom and him both said that you LEAN to steer!!!! LOL I was just like..what? No, leaning is a result of turning, you lean to not fall over while you're turning. I tried to explain to them about counter-steering but they're so old and set in their ways they actually didn't even believe the concept. I just laughed and said....ok, I guess science and physics are wrong! It's funny because the Twist movie actually demonstrates the concept....with his no touch steering bike, it's almost impossible to turn it, you can lean it a bit and it will go left or right, but with just one finger push steering you can have 10x more control.....I just thought it was weird that people who have rode their whole life (like my mom's bf) don't even understand or know about the concept of counter-steering!

[rzresurection]

I learned the hard way today....don't touch the front brake while you're already turning.  I took a last second left hand turn, was going a little too quick, hit the brake just slightly and lost control....wheel started wobbling and I was headed straight for some trees and a power pole.  I didn't panic, kept the bike upright, and calmly road off...could have been much, MUCH worse.  I will learn from this mistake!

 

I caught it on camera so you can either laugh at me, or be relieved I didn't plow into the trees and hurt myself (or my bike)!  Next time, apart from planning my turns a little better, I'll lean more instead of braking, probably have a better outcome than this!

 

I haven't added my comments about the actual video yet. So, here it is.

I've been playing it over and over trying to get the just of what feliks might have been thinking and what he did.

From what I can see, he was too wide going into the corner to begin with. For the speed he was going, he should have been more in the on-coming traffic lane (closer to the stop sign). This wouldn't have required so much of a mid-corner correction.

I think he he realized this early in the turn. Not sure if he felt that he couldn't correct in time. If so, natural reaction is to grab a handful of brake. I'm not sure where the wobble came in or why. I think, grabbing so much brake caused the wobble - the trail shortened too much and caused instability. Trail shortens during breaking also when the front tire is turned in. These together can cause instability if the trail shortens too much.

Once the wobble happened, concentration on anything else like speed, location, etc. went out the window. It was most likely 'left a skid in your shorts' and feliks went into crash avoidance mode. Hey, I've been there many times before.

I don't know if that's what really happened. I was just trying to observe and compare to what might have went thru my head if I was there.

Regardless, made a good recovery and lived to tell the tale.

[feliks]

Excellent analysis.

I had no turn entry point, I just tried to turn, which led to a number of Survival Reactions!