Attention Dragstar XVS 125 Owners/Fans/Potential Buyers

[neversaydie]

I hear this a lot. You're not alone in thinking that way. Danny Pedrosa the motoGP racer is a mere 5'2

Aye, but he doesnt have to stop at any traffic lights

[RatBob]

Aye, but he doesnt have to stop at any traffic lights

So what does he do when he needs to come to a stop? Just jump off?

but what bike do you actually ride?

As I've already said, I sold the NSR. After I passed my test I kept the little draggie and ended up buying and selling a couple of bikes. The draggie is now my "inbetween" vehicle. It's just a mode of transport because I live in the middle of nowhere and don't have a car license.

I then challenged this by pointing out that if this were true, ALL learner bikes would be tall and short people would not be able to ride.

As is, it's not true. Several shorter people cannot safely support the 42 stone weight of my FJ1200 and therefore cannot ride it (even with your oh-so-sagely approach), leaving them a choice of the lower bikes.

Extra respect, you say... you are on a bike you cannot safely handle - How is that deserved of respect?

I never said it was essential, I just said it's part of the learning process. If you want to restrict yourself to bikes with a lower seat then that's fine, but you're missing out if you do.

Also, if short people you know can't support your FJ1200, then they're either legally a midget/dwarf or you're not teaching them properly (no offence). Make no mistake, it DOES take practice, especially for shorter people. However I've seen a 5'0" girl ride a Ninja 250r, which has the exact same seat height as your FJ. Bike weight doesn't matter a great deal even if you are short - I could go into a whole bunch of physics explaining how mass at an angle relates to effort required to resist falling, but I won't. Suffice to say, it's easy to support the balanced weight of a motorcycle so long as it doesn't lean over to an angle where it's downward force exceeds your strength. You'd have to screw up pretty hard to end up dropping it.

Once you've mastered the skill of supporting a tall and heavy bike, that is deserving of respect just like mastering any skill. It's not something everyone is cut out to do as some just lack the confidence.

As for the rest... What the hell are you even here for? This is a Yamaha owners club, yet you seem to utterly fucking despise everything about every single Yamaha you've so much as looked at!!

If you love the Hondas and Kaks so much more, why aren't you riding one?

I'm here because there's a lot of good advice here about fixing issues here. I'm not a particular fan of any brand except Ducati (god I miss my Duc...). I don't specifically love Hondas or Kawasakis, they just have epic build quality and make great products. Not much of a fan of the Yammy product range at the moment. I loved the MT-01 but the insurance would've killed me. I like the styling on the newer FZ but that's about it. The WRX125 is neat, too.

As for respect for being able to put 1 foot down while having the other doing gear or brake can only be described as laughable, I did this when I had a push bike and so can most people, what actual point were you trying to make as it seems to have gone straight over my head?

Some people take to this easier than others, so to you it may have just been natural which is probably why it doesn't seem like a big deal. There was no hidden cryptic meaning.

I can't think of any way you could possibly compare them except they have 2 wheels and a seat you sit on.

Not really comparing them, as they are chalk and cheese. They were just the first and second bikes that I owned and I ended up really loving the NSR. Doesn't mean the draggie was worse, it was just more my cup of tea.

[slice]

Ah Ok Bob I see where you going now, thanks for that, was a bit unsure as to the meaning of your comment, you seem like a nice bloke and all and you have an opinion on the type of bike you prefer so why have you decided to come on a bit strong with your comments regarding the Draggie, if you don't like it don't ride it !! you obviously have a bit of experience with bikes in general and it seems to me that you prefer to ride the pocket rocket to the cruiser so why haven't you just swopped out your 125 for something bigger and faster? Just asking you understand as I'm a bit curious as to why the whole DRAGGIES are death traps and I own one when you could say the same thing and say you got rid of it cos it was horrible. You seem to be a bit of a split personality to me on the type of bikes you ride and those you want to ride if you get my drift?

[neversaydie]

The way it works is you use your left leg to support the weight of the bike, and your right foot on the footpeg to counterbalance it. Or the other way around, depending on which foot you choose to put down. This does take some practice and is an extra skill that you have to learn

Skill????

Learn????

For fucks sake, its natural aint it

If you dont put your leg down, you fall over, simple as

Heck, you dont half talk bollocks

[Ttaskmaster]

I never said it was essential, I just said it's part of the learning process. If you want to restrict yourself to bikes with a lower seat then that's fine, but you're missing out if you do.

Also, if short people you know can't support your FJ1200, then they're either legally a midget/dwarf or you're not teaching them properly (no offence). Make no mistake, it DOES take practice, especially for shorter people. However I've seen a 5'0" girl ride a Ninja 250r, which has the exact same seat height as your FJ. Bike weight doesn't matter a great deal even if you are short - I could go into a whole bunch of physics explaining how mass at an angle relates to effort required to resist falling, but I won't. Suffice to say, it's easy to support the balanced weight of a motorcycle so long as it doesn't lean over to an angle where it's downward force exceeds your strength. You'd have to screw up pretty hard to end up dropping it.

Once you've mastered the skill of supporting a tall and heavy bike, that is deserving of respect just like mastering any skill. It's not something everyone is cut out to do as some just lack the confidence.

So my missus is a 5' 4" midget who is not being properly taught by me??!!

Where did I even say I was a riding instructor, much less was teaching other (more experienced riders) how to sit on my own bike?

NSD is right - You do talk utter bollocks!!

Also:

Ninja 250r - Seat Height: 745mm

FJ1200 - Seat Height: 790mm

How is that anything near the exact same height?

Plus the 1200 has a much wider seat, which shortens the inside leg reach. The 250r is nowhere near comparable.

At 5' 4", she physically cannot get both feet down, not even on tiptoe and there's no way she can exert enough force on an opposite peg to counterbalance THAT amount of weight. That is not safe. That is just begging for a drop with four times the rider's own bodyweight slamming down on their leg. As for angles - It takes less lean angle than setting it on the sidestand to topple the FJ, which is why it's best suited to taller riders

NO riding instructor of any worth should allow someone to ride like that and if you think different, you're a moronic twat who *deserves* to drop their bike!!

Talk all the physics bollocks you want, the real world will chew it up and spit it out. First time you meet an adverse camber or uneven road surface and that physics will fall over... along with 42 stone of motorcycle on top of your rider's leg and/or hip.

By the way, an NSR125 is a really unsafe motorcycle. People die on those, you know...!

[Toutsuite]

There is no such thing as a "motorcycle for tall people", that idea is a total myth.

Yep, you are talking complete and utter shite there boyo. As has been pointed out by others in this thread. You just can't help yourself can you? And that's not us being "angry" with you because we disagree with you. We disagree with you because some of the things you say are complete and utter shite. Like saying that lots of people have been killed on 125 dragstars, and then repeatedly failing to substantiate such claims - which is something you have to do in the grown-up world: back what you say up with facts and figures, evidence.

[PeterC]

So what does he do when he needs to come to a stop? Just jump off?

He has a mechanic or two to catch it

[RatBob]

back what you say up with facts and figures, evidence.

Which is exactly what none of you are doing. For the record, I never stated that the dragstar 125 in particular kills people. If you're going to have an issue with something I've said, you might want to check that I've actually said it first. Secondly, if you're going to just say "you're full of shit", at least back it up with some evidence as to why. Don't go round insisting people adhere to a set of standards that you don't apply to yourself.

Many motoGP riders are quite short, yet they are fine with tall bikes. Point proven. If you think you know more about handling a motorcycle than the best of the best, you really need a reality check. If you think that being tall is the requirement, ask a motorcycle instructor, ask female rider forums, check out youtube, and you'll find that riding a tall bike does not require you to be tall, it requires you to know the techniques.

Ninja 250r - Seat Height: 745mm

FJ1200 - Seat Height: 790mm

I actually misread a spec sheet, so apologies. The point still stands though. There is no reason a short person cannot handle a tall motorcycle. It's all down to technique. Balance with one foot, counterbalance with the other, shift off the seat slightly. Once you've mastered it, no bike is too tall.

Here's a girl and her brother riding Hyosung GT250rs. Girl is only 5'0. At 780mm seat height on the GT250R, there's only 10mm in it between that and your FJ. If she can handle 780, then 790 isn't going to be much different.

If you dont put your leg down, you fall over, simple as

Actually, no, it's not "simple as". If you're short, you need to choose which foot you're putting down, shift over to one side of the seat (left side if you put your left foot down, opposite for the other leg), balance on the foot on the ground while counter-balancing on the peg with the other foot. If you ever get the chance to ride a BMW R1200GS or a Honda XR650L you'll see what I mean.

At 5' 4", she physically cannot get both feet down

This is where the mythology starts. You do not need to be able to put both feet down. You don't even need to be fully on the seat, you can slide off to one side a little to give yourself better reach. There are some bikes out there that even someone who is 6'0 tall wouldn't be able to get both feet down on the ground. It's dangerous to attempt it on a tall bike as you're likely to wind up with the bike on top of you. Hence the phrase "pick a foot". The concept that you must be able to put both feet down is along the same vein as people who believe that counter-steering doesn't exist. It's a dangerous lack of technique. You really ought to consider advanced rider training if you ride a tall bike and still believe that you should ever attempt to put two feet on the ground. I hope you don't ride like that, otherwise you're lucky you've gotten this far without it falling on you.

If you disagree with any of this, then go on youtube, go look at tall bike riding technique. Check out the riding schools that offer training videos for this. They do a better job of explaining it than I do. If the only thing you have to say in response is "no you're wrong", without backing it up or looking into it because you think you know better, then I can't be bothered to go to the effort. The laws of physics will eventually teach you why you were wrong anyway.

[neversaydie]

He has a mechanic or two to catch it

Exactly

[neversaydie]

That's it, I'm out

[Ttaskmaster]

For the record, I never stated that the dragstar 125 in particular kills people. If you're going to have an issue with something I've said, you might want to check that I've actually said it first.

Really....?

Dragstars have maimed and killed people in corners, and most cruisers have this issue,

Talking bollocks.

The point still stands though. There is no reason a short person cannot handle a tall motorcycle. It's all down to technique. Balance with one foot, counterbalance with the other, shift off the seat slightly.

I'm 5' 11", weighing 15 odd stone. I can straddle my bike and get both feet flat before I even sit down. Yet even I cannot get enough downward force when stood on one leg to counter balance 42 stone of bike!

The only way is to use the hands.

Fact is that having to emergency stop, then examine the road camber, pick a foot, slide over to one side of the bike, drop down and still manage to hold the bike up all in one fraction of a second simply does not happen. This is why people drop bikes.

Real world physics, mate.

If you need hours and hours of advanced training just to safely get on the bike, you've made the wrong choice!

[Toutsuite]

Which is exactly what none of you are doing.

We're not the ones making extraordinary claims. You don't even know how this works do you? And for the record (an especially poor choice of words from you there), as Tasky above has beat me to it, yes you have.

Guys, seriously, I think we may be dealing with someone with, um, emotional development issues? I mean none of us actively enjoy being proven wrong, but there's something pathological at work here...

[lallasro]

i`m looking on this video, sec 30, when she stop. let say the wind will just start hit her from sides.what next happened? she is forced to put completly the leg down, the bike will be in a angle of 60 degree, the wind force and the kilos of bike will make he lose the control and boom, she is down. I guess you will tell me about skills bla bla. dude, we are not all moto GP riders and the chance for this girl to fall is big. is about safety, the chance to fall is big, f big. yes you can ride like this 20 years and nothing bad happening but this don`t mean all are so lucky like you... and about moto GP riders, are you kidding? you compare those guys with a normal rider on the road? is about skill, I know, but if you are so skilled, all those problems with dragstar 125 is nothing so all your points about how this bike is crap builded is nothing. if you are skilled you can ride a bike with just one wheel, without need to put a feet down, without a handlebar and with you eyes closed.

[RatBob]

Really....?

Talking bollocks.

I said Dragstars. Not specifically the 125, just the whole product line in general. This includes the whole star range. So yes, really, nice try at a straw man argument, shows how desperate you've become. I knew personally 2 people who were killed locally on a 650 and an 1100, a friend of a friend who died on his 250 (which is geometrically the same as the 125) and a former club member who came off his 1100 recently and made a lucky escape.

http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x1253337077/Middleburg-man-34-dies-in-Snyder-County-motorcycle-crash

So you think it never happens? You're the one talking bollocks. Accidents happen on any bike. The XVS range is not magically immune to it, in fact, it's lack of handling makes it more likely if you get overconfident with it.

Also, if you can't counterbalance with one foot while propping with the other, and think you need to put both feet down, then you are definitely not a skilled rider! It doesn't take 153lbs of downward force or whatever crazy amount of force you think it takes to keep a bike upright! For your own sake go do some track days, some advanced training, learn how to countersteer, body shift, and emergency stop. Sounds like you need it. You don't "analyse a camber" during an emergency stop, you do it BEFORE, you should ALWAYS be aware of the camber because you should ALWAYS be checking the road condition!! God DAMN you're unsafe! Can't believe they let lunatics like you out on the road to be honest! This is what happens when bikers who passed their test donkeys ago aren't required to retake every few years!

Guys, seriously, I think we may be dealing with someone with, um, emotional development issues? I mean none of us actively enjoy being proven wrong, but there's something pathological at work here...

Says the one who seems pathologically desperate to prove someone wrong when they have a dissenting opinion? Yeah. I don't mind being proven wrong, except that none of you have proven anything at all. You won't be told, even when it's staring you in the face. It's called cognitive bias, go look it up.

If you can't take a different opinion on board without throwing insults at that person, you should maybe take a good hard look at yourself and ask what you're so afraid of.

We're not the ones making extraordinary claims.

Neither am I, they just seem extraordinary to you because you're extraordinarily ignorant. Electricity would've been an extraordinary claim in the middle ages too. Perhaps I should've thought twice before overloading your little minds which such advanced concepts as steering geometry.

[AndrewElvisFan]

Yawn, yawn, yawn zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Ttaskmaster]

I said Dragstars. Not specifically the 125, just the whole product line in general. This includes the whole star range.

Aww, picky picky... pot, kettle, fuck you. Your whole rant has been about your shitty, beat-up 125 Dragstar and how they kill people. Now you're trying to backpedal and claim that:

Accidents happen on any bike.

ie the whole premise on which we called BULLSHIT on your rambling diatribe to begin with.

I knew personally 2 people who were killed locally on a 650 and an 1100, a friend of a friend who died on his 250 (which is geometrically the same as the 125) and a former club member who came off his 1100 recently and made a lucky escape.

Sorry, what does the article say there, again?

"The victim, who was wearing a safety helmet, was driving too fast for conditions, police said".

Police did not say 'He died coz the dumbfuck was riding a Dragstar cruiser, which is inherrently unsafe and should never be ridden'.

Next stupid statement?

I've personally known people die while riding Kawasakis, Nortons, Enfields, Hondas, Harleys and Suzukis. Does that make them dangerous too?

You ride like a prick on ANY bike, it will spit you off and given how you seem to think Cruisers should be ridden, I expect we'll see your name in the paper soon!

Also, if you can't counterbalance with one foot while propping with the other, and think you need to put both feet down, then you are definitely not a skilled rider!

Oh, so what, you live in that part of the world where they have neither hands nor adverse cambers, then?

You are taught from day one to ride with absolute perfection, to the point where you hold up 42 stone of bike (that's 588lbs, for those of you who cannot count) with one foot... utter fucking bollocks.

PROVE IT. Get on a 42 stone tall bike and show yourself holding it up with just one foot... oh, that's right - You "have no need to justify yourself", isn't it... You're all-knowing and the rest of us are just dumbfuck country hicks, yet you don't have to prove any of it and we're supposed to just take your word for it... utter fucking bollocks.

And what the fuck do I need a track day for?

This isn't a racetrack. This is the real world. This is busses, trucks, cars, Chelsea tractors, narrow country lanes, potholes, rain and inattentive drivers. If you and your little 125 club buddies are riding on-road like it's a racetrack, I expect you all to die real fucking soon - See comment about riding like pricks!

Also the reason for questioning your riding history to begin with - Now we know why you didn't want to go into detail, ha ha!!

Advanced training?

Again, why are you even on a bike that *needs* advanced training in order to ride safely? Are your bike schools really that inadequate?

If you're needing all that just to ride, you're definitely a special case, mate...

Countersteering is not some myth that you think only REAL bikers understand, by the way. Here, we're all taught it from day one, so you can drop your elitist bullshit with that too. You ain't special.

So when did a fucking retard like you re-take *your* test, then? Ever?

The fact that I'm nowhere near as old as you think either strongly suggests you're just a clueless kid ranting his childish little arse off and making a prick of himself.

Seriously, your whole presence on this board has been nothing but slamming a bike you clearly cannot comprehend, despite it being a learner bike, with no basis other than having bought an utterly fucked example of one in the first place. In over a decade, you're the ONLY one around here who has had anything like these problems and your argument is meaningless.

[RatBob]

you seem to think Cruisers should be ridden

You seem to know fuck all about what I think except what you've convinced yourself.

Oh, so what, you live in that part of the world where they have neither hands nor adverse cambers, then?

No. I live in a part of the world where we actually pay attention to the road and rarely have to emergency brake as a result.

with one foot...

just one foot...

See? Clearly you have the reading comprehension of a 6 year old. One foot on the peg, one foot on the floor. One plus one is two, retard.

oh, that's right - You "have no need to justify yourself", isn't it... You're all-knowing and the rest of us are just dumbfuck country hicks, yet you don't have to prove any of it and we're supposed to just take your word for it... utter fucking bollocks.

I never said "take my word for it" either, I said LOOK IT UP or PROVE ME WRONG. Congrats on so far achieving neither while spouting a whole load of useless diatribe.

And what the fuck do I need a track day for?

You can't attend a track day without first attending track training. You become a better, safer motorcyclist as a result. You learn things like chasing the limit point. You know what the limit point is? Perhaps you can tell us since you know everything.

This isn't a racetrack. This is the real world. This is busses, trucks, cars, Chelsea tractors, narrow country lanes, potholes, rain and inattentive drivers.

The skills you learn on the track will help you in the real world, and you're kidding yourself if you think they won't. The track isn't all about pushing yourself, it's also about holding a line. I can guarantee you that if you think the local roads where you live have you hard done by, you ain't seen nothing like my area. I dodge potholes, mud, narrow lanes and morons like you wish you could.

If you and your little 125 club buddies are riding on-road like it's a racetrack

Again you prove how little you know and how many assumptions you make. I'm not a member of a 125 club, whatever the fuck that is, nor do I ride on-road like I do on the track, hence the track. Don't think I don't know what you're up to. What you're doing is you're trying to assassinate my character to bolster your shitty argument because you think that my point will cease to carry any weight if you bring my integrity into question. What you're actually doing is trying to dodge having to actually engage me intellectually because you obviously know you're not up to the task. So it's down to an ad hominem attack to do the work for you.

Advanced training?

Again, why are you even on a bike that *needs* advanced training in order to ride safely?

What's safe about riding a motorcycle designed for experienced riders with only a beginner's understanding? Lets see you hop on an XR650L and see what happens when you get to the traffic lights.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7158775

your argument is meaningless.

You wish. You haven't even touched my argument with a barge pole because you know you don't stand a chance.

Bring it on. I've given you links, videos, proof of my argument. You've slandered and bitched and moaned because you're a raging, foaming fanboy who can't take a difference of opinion gracefully.

you're the ONLY one around here

Use the forum search function. Forum: Yamaha Workshop. Search: XVS 125.

Oh look! They're not invincible! They fuck up on other people too! Colour me absolutely not shocked.

[Noise]

Ive just done the search and yes there is quite a few topics on the 125 draggy but 90% of them are questions on how things are done on it (oil change getting after market parts etc) the ones that did have problems where with it starting etc and all where sorted and solved with help from either us on the YOC or the posters other mates. No bike is invincible nor is any cage at that matter.

In relation to your very first post you say the shaddow is better than the draggy (plus a few other bikes) just done some resurch and they are pretty much the same. http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews112969.html and http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews91963.html

I would never attempt to ride a tall bike, its just plain stupid to even think about getting on a bike thats out of my reach, the way i see it if you have to slide off the side of the seat to reach the floor then you shouldn't be on it, would you drive a car where you can't fully depress the clutch as your too small to reach?

The skills you learn on the track will help you in the real world, and you're kidding yourself if you think they won't. The track isn't all about pushing yourself, it's also about holding a line. I can guarantee you that if you think the local roads where you live have you hard done by, you ain't seen nothing like my area. I dodge potholes, mud, narrow lanes and morons like you wish you could.

Do you live in Bagdad or some thing? Ive done one track day in my cage and in all honesty it made me a worse driver as i thought i could go faster than i actually could (prick driver) thankfully now i have 7 years NCB under me belt im no longer a cunt on the road and would say that your track day theory is tosh and so would 90% of my mates.

I never said "take my word for it" either, I said LOOK IT UP or PROVE ME WRONG. Congrats on so far achieving neither while spouting a whole load of useless diatribe.

No you didn't say that but you also never answered the first question to which he was relating to (see below quotes)

"You say you're an owner with many years experience... You don't say anything about your service intervals, cleaning or maintenance schedule. Also, you imply you put all 34,000 miles on the bike yourself, from new but don't specifically say so.
Can I request a short bit about you and your riding habits with the same detailed precision by which you analyse the bike characteristics, just to establish an accurate perspective?"

I don't have to defend my riding habits, cleaning and maintenance schedule to you. Suffice to say, I'm probably up there with the top 5% of people who really seriously care for their machines. But that's as far as I'll go, this isn't a discussion of my abilities, this is a discussion of how these bikes don't stand up to the abuse of multiple previous owners well enough to be considered a "good" learner machine.

It was a polite question and then you go all defensive. So how come? some thing to hide? i for one would have said a bit about my self and always do, when i started my project thread i stated i knew shit all about mechanics so would most likely need help, but you sir just blurt out liquid shit and cant even back up your own riding past bar saying you had many a bike.

No. I live in a part of the world where we actually pay attention to the road and rarely have to emergency brake as a result.

O so now you live in Svvvveeden, come off it chap you aint perfect, you dont have Terminator eyes than checks the camber and angle of the road every thirty milliseconds, garrentee that if i rode an FJ and had to do an sudden stop id be on the deck, not due to piss poor riding nor that i haven't done an advanced riding lesson etc etc bla bla it will be because the bike is far to big for me.

You seem to know fuck all about what I think except what you've convinced yourself.

Um no....................the way you been comparing these bikes with top end sports bikes make it sound like you actually think a cruser should be ridden in a sports bike manner and therefore should handle like a sports bike.

[Ttaskmaster]

>No. I live in a part of the world where we actually pay attention to the road and rarely have to emergency brake as a result.
Oh, how nice and sedate for you. Can't be many cars on your road, then.
Now go do it around, say, the Greater London border areas, where people change lanes without even looking, let alone indicating. Unless you are actually psychic, there is NO way your supposed paying attention will warn you.
THAT is emergency braking!

>See? Clearly you have the reading comprehension of a 6 year old. One foot on the peg, one foot on the floor. One plus one is two, retard.
Oh really?
Shit and here's me thinking the other foot was floating in the air... You want to get into name-calling over the fact that you lost the ability to actually follow the conversation, now?

OK, for you and any other dumbfuck shitheads who don't know to walk away from an abused bike when they see it:

Straddle bike.
LEFT foot on the floor.
RIGHT foot on the RIGHT footpeg.
Apply weight to RIGHT foot, all 15 stone.
Bike does not even lift up off the sidestand and I end up standing on the footpeg. It's now a balancing act, not lifting the bike up.

How then do you you come to the conclusion that a tiny little girl can manage to hold this massive bike up with feet and bodyweight alone?
The ONLY way to even lift it off the stand is to leverage your upper body against it, bracing the left leg against the floor. The right foot must be able to touch down, else the first gust of wind will take it over and you with it... and if you think you can hop on, switch your bodyweight across, lean off and touch the right foot down all in time to stop it, you are utterly out of it!


>I never said "take my word for it" either, I said LOOK IT UP or PROVE ME WRONG.
YOUR opinion, mistakenly stated as if it were fact. YOUR responsibility to prove it. You are also the ONLY one with this opinion, completely against the rest of the ownership.
Fact is, we're NOT taking your word for it, but instead demanding that you substantiate the authority by which you make such claims to begin with.
This you have not done out of some elitist feign of superiority.

>You can't attend a track day without first attending track training.
Oh god, MORE training??!!
ALL this just to be able to hold a bike upright, now?
You really *have* been ripped off at some point, mate... CBT, DAS, Roadrider, IAM, Track training and now Track, all so you can ride a bike that's too tall for your body?
Or all so you can bitch about how you expect a Cruiser to be ridden like a Sports bike?

>You learn things like chasing the limit point.
You need Advanced training and trackdays just for that??!!
Dude, I don't know who the fuck taught you to ride, but we get that on Day 1 of basic training!!
We call it the Vanishing Point, by the way, as the corner actually vanishes around it, y'see... Avoids confusion with the more variable Limit Of Vision.

>You know what the limit point is? Perhaps you can tell us since you know everything.
Why should I tell you? Go look it up yourself, or fuck off and go pay for your expensive track day training to learn about it!

But anyway, where exactly is the limit point on a dual carriageway of stationary traffic?
In fact, where is the dual carriageway of stationary traffic on a racetrack? Where are the irate rush-hour drivers on a racetrack?
Where are the drivers who, no matter how fucking bad-ass a rider you think you are, still pull out on/sideswipe you with NO chance for you to brake and crush you under their wheels?
Good luck being all Advanced Trackday Rider with that one. I'm sure being able to ride a tall bike into your Limit Point will save you next time someone sideswipes you off the road...

>The skills you learn on the track will help you in the real world, and you're kidding yourself if you think they won't.
Tell that to the Cops.
Not a single Police Motorcyclist here has recommended Racedays to me... strange, since Cops are typically THE most highly skilled Road Riders around. I mean, if this is all as good as you claim, why aren't they racing round tracks too instead of doing observed rides on real roads?

>The track isn't all about pushing yourself, it's also about holding a line.
Guess what - So is Basic Training!!!
When you're not holding the line, the instructors call it 'thrupenny-bitting', which nowadays leads to an entertaining explanation of what a thrupenny bit is.

>I dodge potholes, mud, narrow lanes and morons like you wish you could.
Yawn...
What was it you were saying about assumptions?

>Again you prove how little you know and how many assumptions you make.
Err... why do you think we asked about you and your riding history?
You give us no context, then aside from giving zero credence to your rant, you leave just us with assumptions based on what you say.

As is you just sound like an inexperienced kid ranting at us 'old donkeys' and the lack of substantiated evidence in your claims, which are totally contrary to the rest of the ownership here, just leave you with the picture you paint of yourself - Some sports bike fanboy (to use your terms) who hasn't a clue how to ride even a learner Cruiser... so much for all your advanced training!

>I'm not a member of a 125 club, whatever the fuck that is,
The clue is in the name.

>Don't think I don't know what you're up to.
OOOOHHHHH NOOOOO, I've been busted... confound you pesky kids!!
You clearly have no idea what I'm 'up to', else you'd have seen sense from the first post.

>What you're doing is you're trying to assassinate my character
No, I'm pointing out all the bullshit you're spouting and how this whole rant of yours is biassed and unwarranted - The rest, with your further unrelated shouting, is just you digging your own hole yourself.

>my point will cease to carry any weight if you bring my integrity into question.
Err... yeah. That's how it works.
You try this in a courtroom, you will get the same thing - Everyone turns around and asks who the fuck you are to spout such claims. You either step up and prove yourself qualified to assert thus, or your claim is of no substance.
You STILL haven't stated anything to that effect, so yeah - your integrity is now in question thanks to your own lack of substantiation.

>What you're actually doing is trying to dodge having to actually engage me intellectually because you obviously know you're not up to the task.
I did that. You didn't like it and started further slamming the bike, its riding community and so forth.

I don't really care to engage you at all, but you're just pissed off that your baseless slating of a popular bike on a Yamaha forum has been met with skepticism and overwhelmingly contrary evidence from everyone else's personal experience that far outweighs your own.
From there, you spiralled into ad hominem yourself, so you're getting the same back in spades and as the forum's resident Troll-wrangler, I'm now just having fun at your expense.

>So it's down to an ad hominem attack to do the work for you.
I dealt with the lack of perspective in your argument. The rest is just response to your own attacks. So fuck you, boyo!

>What's safe about riding a motorcycle designed for experienced riders with only a beginner's understanding?
Everything, according to you... I mean, here we have your 5' girl who can hold a bike up with just one foot on one footpeg (the other on the ground obviously), even though she cannot physically reach the footpeg to get her foot on there...

Give her all the understanding you want, she won't be able to do it... and even a beginner will be trained to recognise that a bike is physically too tall for them just from sitting on it in a showroom... yet you seem to think it's possible through all this training?

>Lets see you hop on an XR650L and see what happens when you get to the traffic lights.
Oh, you first. I mean, YOU'RE the 1337 one with all the experience and training and skillz, right?

Why on Earth would I ride a bike that is physically unsuitable for someone even taller than me??!!
You show me your miracle 5' girl riding it and handling it safely, I'll happily hop on one for ya!

>You haven't even touched my argument with a barge pole because you know you don't stand a chance.
I destroyed your argument from the beginning already. You'd have seen that if you weren't so intent on bullshitting us about how our bikes were deathtraps!

>Bring it on. I've given you links, videos, proof of my argument.
You've shown me little girls tottering on tippy toes trying to support a bike, that will topple over on them first time they stop on uneven road or get hit by a gust of wind, yeah... If that is somehow proof of your argument, you've already lost.

I've yet to see ANY link that proves how dangerous a 125 Dragstar is, or how it fails to stand up against immense long-term abuse and neglect where any other bike would fare far better...

>you're a raging, foaming fanboy who can't take a difference of opinion gracefully.
Opinion now, is it? Bit of a backpedal...
You stated this as FACT. Indisputable FACT, supposedly proven 100% by your opinionated rants and inexplicable expertise. I took your statement, challenged the 'facts' and am still waiting for you to answer that challenge.

As for the term 'fanboy'... well, that's only what trolls say.
Since you started off ranting about Harley wannabes in the first place, it stands to reason that you've only come here to troll.

>They're not invincible!
Whoever said they were?
YOU slated them as god-awful fucking pieces of shit when heavily abused, to which we countered that this applies to EVERY bike. You seem to have forgotten even this very basic challenge.
In fact, you have not answered a single challenge to your original argument, so until you do I refuse to even take you seriously.

[steph g]

This thread is bloody brilliant. C'mon the Dragstar 125's!!!!!