beemer328 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Ttaskmaster, I like you fella . I have been riding all sorts of bikes for around 40 years now and I can honestly say the little Dragstar is a great little machine, maybe if I had bought a pile of shit, abused one then I would maybe think different. I assume the OP has owned many 125 Dragstars to be such an expert as I cant imagine he would have such expertise having owned just one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttaskmaster Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 It was a well-conceived argument, with plenty of sciencey stuff to afford it reason... but when the OP refused to supply further info to give us a context for the argument, instead backing up his sciencey stuff with blanket statements that apply to just about any bike you can imagine, it fell apart and lost all credibility in my view. That and the fact that you don't really come on a Yamaha forum and rip into one of their successful and popular products, claiming it's a fucking potential deathtrap... this isn't Watchdog or Rogue Traders. We deal in fact, proof and real world experience. I don't care if the thing is fundamentally flawed in every aspect of its design... it happens to work damn well for many of us and nothing can dispute that. I put out what I thought was a fairly reasonable and considered reply. If I scared him off, so be it. I scare quite a few people... sometimes I even get paid for it, ha ha!! I'm probably painting myself as Al Pacino in Heat, or something!! "Heh heh... Ferocious, aren't I!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Bugger! Looks like he's gone. Tasky you frightened the poor wee man away. Oh well perhaps he will have more luck with the next bike he buys? Though to be honest he seemed to be a bit annoyed that we all didn't agree with him and his story of woe. Like I said to him it's an opinion and he's entitled to his but so are the rest of the riders of this bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beemer328 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 When I first looked at buying a Dragstar I did my home work and read every review I could find, read forum posts and asked questions, not one person said it was an unreliable death trap waiting to kill you, as his ramblings are the first I have heard of it and considering how happy I am with my bike then I would urge any potential new owner to take what the op has said as the words of a madman, Also noticed he says his bike is a bobber, so it has obviously has been moddified and done by a halfwit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttaskmaster Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 This is why I always advise against modding 125s - Because some ranty bugger will end up buying it and then their impression of the bike, perhaps even motorcycling in general, will be forever destroyed... and then I have to get all scary on them!! "Ferocious, aren't I!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewElvisFan Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Not being an expert myself (previous bikes include a City Express, BMX, several mountain bikes and a Zip 50!) I can only agree that a 'Cruiser' style, of which I believe I can call the SR tells you you're going round a corner too quick when the foot peg scrapes! Surely it's obvious that if you want to compete in the TT races, you don't use a Cruiser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaman Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I can keep up with mates with Sportsbikes and Tourers on the twisty bits, you don't have to touch down the pegs to corner quickly on a cruiser. The only time I can remember the pegs touching slightly was actually pulling out of a tricky local T junction where I had to get a shifty on as a cage appeared at speed from under the near bye railway bridge. Maybe they should have a new race class at the TT for cruisers, that would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttaskmaster Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Maybe they should have a new race class at the TT for cruisers, that would be fun. Yeah - We'd all just turn up, find the pub and kick back with a few pints, ha ha!! Seriously, it'd be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noise Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Im up for a go on the TT on Betty, be a cracking laugh, but yes think it would just be a sprint to the pub for a deep whisky and sit and watch the Pro's do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beemer328 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Last time I did the Island we didnt actually see any racing, too much going on in the pubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatBob Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Thanks everyone for taking the time to give all the criticism, obviously you are all tremendously angry about the fact that I have an opinion that you disagree with. All I really have to say is, good for you, I wouldn't wish a dodgy bike on anyone. If the baby drag works for you then great, not every machine is born equal. The issues that I have with it are down to manufacturing and aesthetic decisions that impact the lifespan and performance of the vehicle. I agree that "looked after" there's no reason why it wouldn't last, unfortunately the condition of my machine has been largely out of my hands having 7 previous owners excluding myself. I imagine that there will be many people out there in the same boat looking at bikes with a large number of previous learner owners. You could argue that a cruiser is not really a fantastic choice for a first bike. Before you all shout "seat height", learning how to use a tall bike is part of the overall learning process, it's just another thing that takes practice. The issue is really one of length. No, it's not an r6, I'm just saying to all prospective buyers and current owners, if it's got a couple scuffs, your bike has probably been dropped, lowsided, and maybe even involved in a couple minor accidents. It's surprising what a bike can survive without any major signs of damage. Cruisers aren't exactly known for their ability when it comes to avoiding/getting away from a bad situation. Accidents happen on any bike, but the geometry of a cruiser can be a compounding factor. I think many of us have been cornering a bit too quick before and realised just how unresponsive a cruiser can be in this situation. It's your choice whether or not you decide to rectify the handling, as there are things you can do to improve it. It's not bad for gentle riding, just go easy in the twisties unless the road is bone dry. Chances are, if you're buying a cruiser then you're not going to be too bothered about performance anyway. Just something to keep in mind. Yes, the other part of it is maintenance. What I look for in a good learner bike is neglect-proof construction. There are a couple of design elements on the draggie that don't really go hand in hand with first time owners. It's not really about "if it's looked after". Even a piece of shit chinese bike will never give you any issues if it's well loved and pampered after every ride. It's more about how it holds up in the wrong hands. The first things to go on the baby drag seems to be the header stud bolts, and indeed mine were no different right from the start. The second thing to rust is the bottom yoke, followed by most of the nuts and bolts. Corrosion seems to be a bit of an issue, I've been chasing it relentlessly, sanding back to bare metal, primer and paint, and then clear coat. I've welded exhaust holes, too. The exhaust seems to be a bit of a weak point in general. If you own a draggy and it seems fine, then there's probably no need for alarm. Practice on it, pass your test, sell it on. If you really want this bike to be your first (or second, whatever) then here are my tips when shopping: Make sure it's low mileage, the lower the better. These bikes aren't really built for the long haul unless you're really comitted to pampering. Be prepared to be a fair weather rider. These machines are not waterproof. Consider buying a cheap second bike for transport if it's raining and save the drag for nice days. Check out the exhaust header bolts and the exhaust in general for rust. Ask to see the owner remove the spark plugs. These bikes have alloy threads that can cause corrosion, cross threading and stuck or loose plugs. One of the first major issues I had with my bike was having to helicoil the plug threads after changing the plugs for the first time. Inspect the machine for signs of crashes. Scuffed footpegs, bar ends, lever ends, and exhaust pipes are a common telltale sign. Also when test riding, have a quick look at the front wheel while in motion. Wobbling suggests a buckled rim. That's about it. If you don't really feel that I have any authority to comment then fair enough, just ignore me. If you take it on board and don't have any of these problems then great, congrats, you own one of the better examples out there. If you have a choice between the drag and the shadow, the honda is the better bike all day long. More powerful engine, better build quality, but then honda are known for that. I'm not really here to argue, just to give my 2 cents. Take it easy out there everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttaskmaster Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Having to use ye olde >> marks instead of proper quoting as, apparently, I am now limited on how many blocks of text I can quote... okay, forum software... >>obviously you are all tremendously angry about the fact that I have an opinion that you disagree with. We may disagree. That is our right and nothing more. It's all part of the discussion. Testing our own opinions against others' and seeing how it turns out. The matter people *are* actually angry about is twofold: - Firstly that you bought a piece of shit and are tarring EVERY XVS125 with the experiences you had of that one example. - Secondly that you are criticising the performance of the machine using measures that are outside the scope of its particular purpose. These two aspects greatly affect the validity of your findings and reduce your report and advice down to basic opinion only. It's heavily biassed and nowhere near representative of the machine as a whole. Had you been an owner of several 125 Drags across the years and found the same true of every one you'd owned, it'd be a different matter. But as you have failed to offer further insight to your perspective of judgement, we must assume you have only ever tried this one individual motorcycle. Anyway, on with the actual discussion: The issues that I have with it are down to manufacturing and aesthetic decisions that impact the lifespan and performance of the vehicle. I agree that "looked after" there's no reason why it wouldn't last, unfortunately the condition of my machine has been largely out of my hands having 7 previous owners excluding myself. >>I imagine that there will be many people out there in the same boat looking at bikes with a large number of previous learner owners. Oh, most certainly! But they will not ALL be 125 Dragstars. I could right now show you a Suzuki VanVan that is as equally fucked as your Drag is/was. Same for a CG, Marauder, Intruder, Shadow, RS, YR, all fucked 125s... >>You could argue that a cruiser is not really a fantastic choice for a first bike. I'd argue straight back that it depends on the rider's preferred style of riding. If you're a Junior Power Ranger, then of course it's a bad choice. >>learning how to use a tall bike is part of the overall learning process Then why aren't all 125s insanely high Varadero types? Also, where does that leave the shorter riders who can't reach the floor on tall bikes? >>I'm just saying to all prospective buyers and current owners, if it's got a couple scuffs, your bike has probably been dropped, lowsided, and maybe even involved in a couple minor accidents. Possibly, not probably. Depends on the scuffs. Parking, road resurfacing, cleaning with a pot-scourer (yep, seen that happen)... But these words are true of ANY bike, not just a 125 Drag. >>Cruisers aren't exactly known for their ability when it comes to avoiding/getting away from a bad situation. Beg to differ, but on a personal level. My 125 Drag was quite a nippy little bitch. Brakes were adequate, manoeuvrability was wicked fun. Mostly it depends on the situation. >>Accidents happen on any bike, but the geometry of a cruiser can be a compounding factor. As above, it depends on the situation. If you find yourself needing power to escape from danger, chances are you've made a fundamental riding error just before you got into the trouble. It tends to be the power that gets you into these problems, ie cornering too fast, in which case the fault lies with your right hand and your brain not understanding the geometry to begin with. >>I think many of us have been cornering a bit too quick before and realised just how unresponsive a cruiser can be in this situation. So now you're learning not to corner too fast on a Cruiser... how is that different from learning not to corner too fast on a Sports, a Tourer, Off-Roader or even a Sidecar Outfit? The only basic differences between all of these is the speed at which it becomes unsafe and the different geometry of each bike. It's your choice whether or not you decide to rectify the handling, as there are things you can do to improve it. >>It's not bad for gentle riding, just go easy in the twisties unless the road is bone dry. You sound like you REALLY need a sports bike. Seriously, that kind of talk just makes me want to scream, "Do you know what a Cruiser even is??!!" at you. Cruisers are meant for relaxed riding. That is their whole purpose. Even most large-engined ones top out around 92mph. That is the point. If you're riding it like it's a flippin' Rossi-kissed Race Rep, then OF COURSE you're going to stuff it up. This is tantamount to bitching that your Ferarri Testarossa is a flawed design because the rusty old one you bought fell apart when you took it down the Range Rover™ off-road course in Mapledurham!! >>What I look for in a good learner bike is neglect-proof construction. Good fucking luck, boyo!! There's not a motorcycle out there that is neglect-proof, 125 or otherwise. >>It's more about how it holds up in the wrong hands. Again, every bike can be broken in the wrong hands... just like every car, every PC, every screwdriver, every mobile phone, every thing in existence. If you want a vehicle designed to withstand serious abuse, buy a Toyota Hilux or a fucking tank! >>Be prepared to be a fair weather rider. Or ride every day in all weathers and just put in the effort to look after it. Dry it off before you sling a cover over it, use ACF50 in Winter, clean the road crap off it at least once a month or even weekly, polish the chrome, lube the working parts, change the oil, lube the chain, follow the flipping instructions and don't abuse it... Standard fare for any Cruiser and indeed most bikes. Cars too, but drivers give less of a fuck about those - Some don't even know what the 710 cap is for!! >>These machines are not waterproof. Then how come they still start up and run in pissing heavy rain? >>I'm not really here to argue Then perhaps avoid presenting mere opinion as definitive facts that refute millions of pounds worth of mechanical design and as the one voice of discontent against hundreds of examples (riders and machines) that contradict supposed facts. People here have no problem with your individual findings, sharing of your own experiences, discussing and debating these things or anything else. Different riders, different bikes and different experiences all make for a colourfully active forum. Just don't tar everything with the same brush, particularly when that tar applies to all vehicles. It just makes you look like a ranty, malcontent fool and I'd much rather have someone as articulate as yourself on our side - The Yamaha Side!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lallasro Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 what the 710 cap is for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Lallasro 710 is OIL spelled upside down !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noise Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I love this forum!!! Ratbob, just go buy a 650 draggy, all your moaning will soon stop. cracking bike (same as the 125 draggy) TRUST ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lallasro Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I know slice lol, is a joke about this cap but my english is to poor to try translate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neversaydie Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Dang, looks like Taskmaster has beat us all to it My old draggy finished up as my winter bike, just upped the care and attention a little to keep it in good shape. Road it as what it was, couldn't fault it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatBob Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 I love this forum!!! Ratbob, just go buy a 650 draggy, all your moaning will soon stop. cracking bike (same as the 125 draggy) TRUST ME I've road tested a couple 650 draggies and honestly I preferred the Kawasaki Vulcan 800 and Honda Shadow 600 for that class of cruiser. It pulls well enough (in a sort of pickup truck way) and is extremely well made - far superior to the 125 counterpart. Engine is a little flat though and while the Shadow is good for 110, the Drag ran out of breath at about 90. Neither speed nor accelleration was it's strong point, and neither was handling. That left me wondering what it's strong point actually was, and I've pretty much decided that it's down to styling, build quality and exhaust note. The second draggie I tested was a bobber with straight through pipes, and it sounded awesome down narrow streets. I should probably explain a little. Admittedly, I started off life as a cruiser devout - I felt that bobbers were the epitome of motorcycling and thought of sports bikes as the preserve of the speed freak. Then I ended up purchasing an NSR125 super cheap as a winter hack and bad weather bike, given that the XVS was not really up to the job. Not realising what a bargain I had, or knowing anything of this bike's legendary status, quite frankly it took me completely by surprise. Not only were they selling for way more on ebay than I bought it for, I was also massively impressed with the handling as well as the power. Pretty much immediately I became interested in the idea of putting in for my test, sold the NSR for near enough 5 times what I bought it for, and took my test. Pretty soon after passing I got an offer from a Kawasaki dealership to come test their new Ninja 250 (thanks go to the riding school for selling my details to the dealership). I road tested a few more cruisers before deciding that none of them were as fun as my NSR was, even with the added power. I took up the offer to try the Ninja and I was completely blown away. So I guess really I've been spoiled by the sports bike. For me the pin-sharp handling is just so much fun. I really enjoy twisties, the challenge of perfect apexing every time. I can happily cruise around if I want to, or alternatively the choice is there to really throw it into some turns. I also became addicted to the modern styling and basically never looked back since. Then why aren't all 125s insanely high Varadero types? Also, where does that leave the shorter riders who can't reach the floor on tall bikes? I hear this a lot. You're not alone in thinking that way. Danny Pedrosa the motoGP racer is a mere 5'2. There is no such thing as a "motorcycle for tall people", that idea is a total myth. If anything, cruisers are harder for shorter people to deal with because there is a longer reach to the handlebars and foot controls. The way it works is you use your left leg to support the weight of the bike, and your right foot on the footpeg to counterbalance it. Or the other way around, depending on which foot you choose to put down. This does take some practice and is an extra skill that you have to learn - some riders lack the confidence to try it and that's fine. Some people don't feel safe unless they have both feet flat on the ground, but being able to ride a tall bike is a skill that most riders will give you extra respect for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I was not going to get involved with this thread just watch it play out but I'm a little confused by it now Bob, you started off by saying that the bike you had/have was built badly and dangerous to ride round corners and a lot more, then you launched into a long discussion on the various merits of the other manufacturers bikes HONDA KAWASAKI and so on, now you have just said that you liked the NSR125 much more than the draggie 125, correct me if I'm wrong and I will be the first to admit that it happens now and then, but what bike do you actually ride? cos there could be no 2 bike more dissimilar than the 2 you have mentioned, one is a speed machine with all the bells and whistles and the other is, well to put it politely, a cruiser and I can't think of any way you could possibly compare them except they have 2 wheels and a seat you sit on. As for respect for being able to put 1 foot down while having the other doing gear or brake can only be described as laughable, I did this when I had a push bike and so can most people, what actual point were you trying to make as it seems to have gone straight over my head? Sorry mate but if your trying to be subtle about something then please feel free to be a bit more blunt !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttaskmaster Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 There is no such thing as a "motorcycle for tall people", that idea is a total myth. If anything, cruisers are harder for shorter people to deal with because there is a longer reach to the handlebars and foot controls. The way it works is you use your left leg to support the weight of the bike, and your right foot on the footpeg to counterbalance it. Or the other way around, depending on which foot you choose to put down. This does take some practice and is an extra skill that you have to learn - some riders lack the confidence to try it and that's fine. Some people don't feel safe unless they have both feet flat on the ground, but being able to ride a tall bike is a skill that most riders will give you extra respect for. What the hell does all that ramble have to do with the question? You said: "Learning how to use a tall bike is part of the learning process" I then challenged this by pointing out that if this were true, ALL learner bikes would be tall and short people would not be able to ride. As is, it's not true. Several shorter people cannot safely support the 42 stone weight of my FJ1200 and therefore cannot ride it (even with your oh-so-sagely approach), leaving them a choice of the lower bikes. Extra respect, you say... you are on a bike you cannot safely handle - How is that deserved of respect? As for the rest... What the hell are you even here for? This is a Yamaha owners club, yet you seem to utterly fucking despise everything about every single Yamaha you've so much as looked at!! If you love the Hondas and Kaks so much more, why aren't you riding one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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