feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Got some penetrating oil soaking on the head bolts.... I think they're just stuck on the one side. I'm gently easing it off....would really suck to break something at this point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzresurection Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Keep soaking it with penetrating oil and prying gently. Where you can, use wood to pry against. I'm not sure exactly where it is stuck. You might be able to use a little heat to help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Got it! I had the oil soaking while I went for dinner at the in-laws.... came back, stuck a 2x4 at the back where there was more material and not just coolings fins, gave it a couple whacks with a hammer and boom, came loose! Got it off. Now...how the heck do I tell if i need new rings? I mean..they "look" good....how does one tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Here are some pictures of the progress and the pistons & rings! engine out by feliks.ca, on Flickr piston1 by feliks.ca, on Flickr piston2 by feliks.ca, on Flickr piston3 by feliks.ca, on Flickr piston4 by feliks.ca, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 First things first.... I'll be taking the bottom end into a machine shop to get the hole fixed up. I also have a stripped hole for the exhaust bolt so I'll get that fixed as well in the top end. While I'm there... I'll get them to hone the cylinders, and then measure them, and then order parts to get this thing back together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt502001 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 In the pictuers you can see that there has been blow by of burt gasses,with the washing of the cylinders when your pet cock dicked off and floded the motor. When that happened you started your motor with no lubrication on the rings or cylinder walls that alon is justifiable cause to replace the rings,any motor with 20k + miles will bennifit from new rings preformance wise. i know they are the most expencive part of the fix but worth it,your there and do you want to get it all back together and find out your at 70% compression. They all have to come off to clean the pistons anyway. And a old ring is a great way to get in there and clean the ring lands ( groves) Pianting the whole eng as 1 piece look's like crap to me,parts that shouldn't be painted get painted and it makes it look like you never took it appart,and just gave it a CIL rebuild (CIL is a paint co.). Also your VC gasket is rubber and paint and rubber dont get along. I would paint it in pieces after the shop is done with it. Wait till the wife will be gone for hours and slip it in the oven and bake the paint on as per the instructions this give it a harder finnish and wont come off.or bead blast the top end to get the last of the paint off and leave it The bottom end, well its not going in the oven so it's up to you, Gasket kit for 170 is not bad but how much for just a top end kit. you will shit when you see what yam wants for each part. Once you get the tops of the pistons cleaned off look fo a stamp might be nothing or std if you find .020 then it first bore over but I highly doubt the motor has ever been appart. Most likely the head gasket started to leak and the PO tried to tighten it down more to stop it and striped the head bolt therads. also explains why no paint on the alt. Have fun cleaning the base gasket off it will be like a rock.take your time so not to scrach the metal,wd40 will help soften it up,keep the shop vac handy when doing the motor,and lots of new razor blades.I use olfa blades and use the flat end of the blade not the sharp part when new they are sharp enough,and you can keep breaking them back to get new. Who is doing the valve seals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted December 30, 2013 Moderator Share Posted December 30, 2013 brake fluid is supposed to be good at gasket removing too according to classic bike mag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzresurection Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm assuming that the bores are free from any scoring? If so, that's good. Get them to measure first. Before honing. You need to get the std. bore measurement specs to be able to compare. Look in your manual. Sometimes they will give a ring-end-gap spec. That determines if the bore needs to go up. I'm guessing that all will be good and only need a honing. The honing will rough up the cylinder walls and help with lubrication. Sorry, started this post and didn't finish before others posted. Got sucked into taking Christmas decorations down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 All great advice, thanks guys! Flip (DT) - I don't mind shelling out for the parts at this point, already took it apart, no way I want to do this again right away, I want to fix it RIGHT! So new rings it is, I was just curious how to tell, and now I know! I just wasn't sure if that was blow-by I was looking at or what....good to know! There is no stamp on the pistons other than an arrow pointing towards the front of the engine. Painting I can do, I've done lots of it! POR15 makes a brush on engine paint that I may try if I can find it here in Canada, then I don't have to mask everything off to paint. Yeah, the base gasket is fucked, tried to pick at it a little last night before bed and it just kept breaking into pieces...going to take some work. I have some permatex gasket remover but I don't want to get it into the bottom end of the engine, who knows what it'll do down there....so I guess a scraper and a rag it is! I have no idea who is doing the valve seals. Who SHOULD do them? Jeff (rz) - no scoring in the bores! So since I don't have a tool to measure my bores...I should just get the machine shop to do it while I'm there getting some other work done. Would you advise honing the bores yourself or having the shop do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Here's a shot of the underside of the valves... I'm assuming I need new seals! Would I be correct in that assumption? valve 1 by feliks.ca, on Flickr valve 2 by feliks.ca, on Flickr valve 3 by feliks.ca, on Flickr valve 4 by feliks.ca, on Flickr Valves! by feliks.ca, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted December 30, 2013 Moderator Share Posted December 30, 2013 leave the valves in and get a brass wire attachment for the drill and decoke the heads. the vales need to be out to check the seal between valve and head (pock marks, bits missing) otherwise you can lap the valves in with grinding paste. you can get a kit of two types of paste and a little suction cup on a stick to spin the valve around to grind them to the head. don't forget to use your cardboard to put the vales back in the same order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 So you're saying just clean them up before I remove them, then remove them and clean them? What paste are you talking about... I've seen people clean the valves by removing them and then putting the valve in a drill and spinning it onto a scotch-brite pad, kind of like I do with my rifle brass....should be easy to do that, but I don't know what paste you speak of though... Found this nice how to remove valve springs without a spring compressor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6raocApZQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted December 30, 2013 Moderator Share Posted December 30, 2013 easy to google http://www.agriandgarden.com/valve-grinding-paste.html?gclid=CLGqz73S2LsCFUzHtAodvmAAfQ 1) clean the valves in situ with brass brush in drill 2) take out valves 3) you can also clean valves in drill if dirty, but watch your not reducing the valve stem width 4) grind in valves to seal with linky posted above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 I picked up some scotch-brite pads with soap infused in them to clean the valves once I get them out, will be sure to be careful with them. I'll check out the valve seating paste, or I may even get Flip or Jeff to help me get the valves back in if I get into trouble lol....plus it's an excuse for them to come and work on motorcycle stuff and who doesn't love doing that?? Appreciate the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Ok called Yamaha dealership for part prices....they took my list and are going to call me back. Any guesses? We should start a contest... I'm thinking.... $400 for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 $451 - I was close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzresurection Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 ... I may even get Flip or Jeff to help me get the valves back in if I get into trouble lol....plus it's an excuse for them to come and work on motorcycle stuff and who doesn't love doing that?? Appreciate the info! I didn't know working on bikes was so much like cooking. Always tastes better when someone else makes it. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feliks Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Hahaha, I do what I can but if I get stuck I don't want to fuck it all up! Time to go clean the piston heads and valves! Is there any trick to getting the valves out other than the few videos I've seen on youtube of people with sockets, compressing the spring and then taking the retainer clip thing out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzresurection Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 $451 - I was close! Bike ownership isn't cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzresurection Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 ... Is there any trick to getting the valves out other than the few videos I've seen on youtube of people with sockets, compressing the spring and then taking the retainer clip thing out? What are valves? Lol. Talk to me about reeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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