dt502001 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Personaly i would just buy the heli coil and put it in myself,if you can drill a straight hole and turn a tap thread then it not hard,all the stuff you need comes as a kit short of a drill. Your not drilling from blank metal you allready have the hole just need to enlarge it .5mm or less. And about honing the cylinder for what the shop will charge you to do it you can buy a hone ffrom Princess Auto and save yourself some cash. A hundred for a spare motor is a deal and a half,esp if you score a cdi in the other parts,I would be tempted to scrap this project and just stuff in the other motor.You can do a compression test on it before stuffing it in,and this would keep the cost way down as your bike is realy only going to fech 15-1800 when you sell. Dumping alot at a bike you will sell to up grade in a year or so well thats up to you.You can chalk up all the work you have done as a learning project and get it back in running order on the cheap,this started as fixing a oil leak/exhaust leak not like you weren't happy with the power .For someone who had never done any of this type of work you have done well if you do decide to go the used motor route but still want to get what it's like to reassemble a motor,just put it back together minus new head gaskets and new rings( just re-use the old rings and a new base gasket) .Then you have a complete spare parts motor. A new alt will cost more than 100 and you know all your e parts are good as with the tranny clutch ect.. so if you need them later you would have them.Just sayin that a 100 fix is a more reasonable way to go on such a dated bike that not many want considering a r6 can be had for not much more $$$. Give er a CIL rebuild and carry on with your body mods will still make a nice first bike to rip around on and.........well. Considering where you are on the learning curve of riding there is a good chance this bike will end up on it side or possibly worse a complete right off. PS.I didnt see piston c clips on your parts list dont re use the old ones.If you going to keep fixing get em on ordr The vid you put up about the valves is some what how I do it to get em appart,put a rag under to help hold the valve up,I just whack the socket with a hammer the keepers end up in the socket. HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL but please keep the noise down my head hurts.
feliks Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! You know I've been thinking about it as I've been doing all this work...and when I'm done it's going to be so satisfying having an engine I put back together, that I'm going to keep the bike for a few years. After all this work is done I'm going to have a pretty much brand new top end, that should last until the wheels fall off the bike...lol Who knows how abused these other engines are, and they both have around 50k, mine has 28k. That being said, I wouldn't mind picking up another motor and some parts, so I'm going to go check it out anyway. If the heads look better on the other motors I'll just swap them over and save doing a valve job and worrying about the broken exhaust bolt on the front. Could always use more parts for cheap though! I'm going to get a quote on doing the inserts at the engine shop since it's only about 20 minutes from me, just to see what they say....if they can do the inserts and honing for a hundred bucks or less I'd be cool with that. Might be handy having a helicoil or keensert kit handy though for other jobs! What do you think about the hole right through to the crankcase cavity, what if metal shavings get down there? I guess I can hold a shop vac with a small attachment on it while I'm drilling....any other ideas? I'll add the c-clips to the list, those are just the ones I took out to slide the piston rods out right? Going to do to the oil pan gasket as well, should I leave that all together until the end so we can flush out the bottom end? I have no idea how to do that...I just remember you mentioned it, I'm assuming we fill it up with some cheap oil and let it drain? I don't even think it's going to be too hard to re-assemble the motor, with all the help I've got from you and the other guys here...it's made the job so much easier and I'm a lot more confident than when I started. The only thing I'm not sure about is the timing chain and how to get that lined up... I made some marks on the sprockets and chain with a felt-tip pen but I'm not sure if they held up. Is there another way to do that?
Moderator drewpy Posted January 1, 2014 Moderator Posted January 1, 2014 you can use grease to hold the swarf in on the inserts. BTW you need to use the special drill bit with helicoils etc as they are a special size, they usually come with the kit
feliks Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 Would Keenserts be better (key locking) as opposed to Helicoils?
georgen Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 I would use timeserts opposed to helicoils, helicoils are not very strong and can lock up on the thread, after just looking up Keenserts they look very similar to timeserts so this is the direction I would go. what is on the inside of the striped hole, it looks very light grey and is it just the angle of the pic or is the hole off centre slightly?. keep up the good work and good luck with it.
feliks Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 The light gray stuff is jb weld or something that the previous owner tried to fix the hole with....going to see if I can find a local source for timeserts/keenserts, basically any key locking thread insert will work, just have to get the right size! I have no thread measuring device. Thanks for the luck, I'll need it!
rzresurection Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 If you're looking for a local supplier of thread inserts, maybe pick up a cheap thread gauge. Something like this This will give you the pitch, then you need to find the dia of the rod. Or you could look for one of these. They are cheap, but you can get the info from the bolt using this. If the hole is off-centred, you have to try to get the new insert hole centred as best as possible. I'm not sure how much 'off-centre tolerance' there is for your new insert location. If there is a little, you should be ok doing it yourself. See all the things you need when you start doing things yourself. It never ends really.
dt502001 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 1.25x12mm stud is that not the spec ,for that stud? Lookie in the bookie. no need to measure it. Keen set is a better way but dam you got to buy the whole kit $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Heli coil and some green or yellow lock tight cant remember right now but 1 is muter ^ perment Shop vac with a crevice tool attachment right beside the drill bit and it will catch/suck the crap out and because you can get around the hole easy to block it off from the B/E 100 for hone bore and inserts your mad.Not going to happen. Bet the "quote" come's back closer to 200.
feliks Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 lol Ok going to fastenal tomorrow to pick up the thread insert - going with Keyserts - they sell them individually and you don't need to use the tool to install them - they use standard tap sizes as well. I like the fact it has locking tabs, should hold better. Not sure if that's the correct size but I imagine you're right! I'll check the manual and bring the stud with me too to make sure it's going to fit. Princess Auto has the honing tool for like $25 so I'll probably just pick that up then, but then I have to get something to measure the cylinders too.... I imagine they're stock size though. Wonder if I can just bring in the cylinders to the Yama dealership and get them to measure them there so I get the right rings. Thanks again everyone for all the tips and advice, sure does help!!
feliks Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 Finally got the rear cowl in yesterday... flows perfect with the bike. Need to do a bit of modification to it and the rear chassis when I get the tail light in. Untitled by feliks.ca, on Flickr
dt502001 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 PA sells vernier calipers for ?10-15 bucks cheap but will work.
feliks Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 Crappy Tire has some digital calipres on sale for $10 right now...going to grab them today.
Calum122 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Verniers are a dime a dozen. So long as you don't mind compensating the accuracy a little
feliks Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 Yeah I won't be able to get right down in the middle of the cylinder with the calipers but if I can get a good enough reading for it to work then all is good!
feliks Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 Fastenal didn't have the keyserts/ key locking thread inserts....and Canadian Tire was sold out of the digital calipers that were on sale! Got a rain cheque for them, and picked up a square and some feeler gauges to see if I have any warpage on my parts before I start buying gaskets for the engine and waste money! So far the cylinder housing is perfect, can't even slide the .002 feeler gauge under anywhere without it binding, which means there are no gaps and no warpage! On to the next piece...the bottom end! Hoping it's alright because the rest of the shit in there is awesome...gears...clutch...etc.
feliks Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 Picked up a feeler gauge and a contractors square today and started testing for warpage. There are a couple of small variances...is it significant enough to worry about? Everywhere except the back side where the engine wasn't torqued correctly due to the warped header bolt hole was in spec, I couldn't slide the 0.002 gauge under, but when I got to the back I could. So I changed to 0.003 and couldn't slide that under...but I could slide it under in another spot, so I changed to 0.004 and I couldn't get that under ANYWHERE I tried...so is this good...or? Pictures: Checking for head warpage by feliks.ca, on Flickr Checking for head warpage by feliks.ca, on Flickr Checking for head warpage by feliks.ca, on Flickr Checking for head warpage by feliks.ca, on Flickr Checking for head warpage by feliks.ca, on Flickr Checking for head warpage by feliks.ca, on Flickr and I checked all angles, left to right, diagonal, top to bottom, anywhere I could fit the straight edge in, this was the only spot I could slide the feelers under.
Calum122 Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 It's hard to think such a small difference would make a difference. Be interested to see whether it does or not....
dt502001 Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Turn you square around and check again use the middel of the square to doo all your measurements would have been better to buy a longer square so you could lay it accross the whole head surface at once. As long as the combined head and block is less than .005 your fine.
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