Jambon Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 I got pulled over by the West Yorkshire Police whilst travelling Westbound on the M62 just before I was due to come off on junction 26. I noticed a police car in my right side mirror with its flashies on so pulled out of its way. Upon pulling out of its way I noticed it followed me. I realised I was the target so pulled onto the hard shoulder. I switched off my engine and began removing my helmet and gloves. I then put the bike on its sidestand. As I was putting the bike on its stand a policeman approached me from the right side and said 'far too fast to me'. He then said 'you can kiss your license goodbye'. Another policeman then approached from the left side and asked me to get off my bike and come sit in the back of the car so they could explain what was going to happen. As I moved to the policecar the 2nd policeman suggested I take off my backpack and bumbag so I could sit comfortably in the vehicle. I did as instructed and sat in the back of the vehicle. I sat in silence for a few minutes while the second policeman spoke about me on the radio and the first one was writing notes. I asked the policeman on the left what was going on and he said that his colleague would explain in a moment. The policeman on the right then asked why I was travelling so fast and I said I didn't think I was travelling that fast. The policeman said that they had been chasing me over some distance and that they were flat out and I was pulling away from them. They said they'd lost me at one point and it was only that I was bogged down in traffic that I'd slowed down and that they had caught up with me. They said they estimated my speed to be in excess of 150mph. The policeman on the right said that I shouldn't even bother trying to tell him that my bike was incapable of that speed because he knew what speed it was capable of. I was then cautioned that I was getting a notice of prosecution for exceeding a speed limit and also for dangerous driving. I was told that the dangerous driving was given purely because of the speed I was travelling. I was also told that they didn't normally do motorway work and that they were on their way home from Bradford when I went past them. I was also told that there was no video evidence because their video system was broken. Ok guys I'd like some opinions here... I feel I was not travelling anywhere near the speed they quoted and I tend to avoid overtaking police cars since I see it as asking to get pulled over. I'm kind of curious as to the validity of evidence they are going to present in court against me. Since they have no way of knowing my speed without actually measuring it, how can they determine to what extent I was exceeding a speed limit? I'm kind of crapping myself over this as I stand to lose my license and god knows what else. I travel 45 miles to work each day so this isn't something I can afford to have happen to me. If nothing else this is something interesting for you guys to ponder over. I'm anxiously awaiting replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Aren't you the guy who only just passed your test and bought an R1? I was only wondering where you'd got to the other day. About the offence...I'm no expert cos the last endorsement I had was in 1975, and I'm not sure what the procedure is now. But if they do stick a dangerous driving on you and the 2 cops go to court and give evidence that they estimated your speed to be around 150mph then the court will take their word for it I'm afraid. What you will need to do is to wait for the charges to come through and then see a brief IMMEDIATELY! You'll need to sell your bike before you get to court, and say you've finished with bikes.....your brief will probably tell you the same. If you don't get a switched on brief you could potentially be looking at jail time...so ask around locally for recommendations....or look in the back of MCN for specialists in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Beezkneez Posted May 30, 2005 Moderator Share Posted May 30, 2005 just out of curiosity what kind of panda car were they in ? i notice that they "estimated" your speed to be in excess of 150...that wont stand up in court, the court will need facts and not guess work, as Pete says get a clued up brief on the case or you're looking at a hefty fine/ban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambon Posted May 30, 2005 Author Share Posted May 30, 2005 just out of curiosity what kind of panda car were they in ? i notice that they "estimated" your speed to be in excess of 150...that wont stand up in court, the court will need facts and not guess work, as Pete says get a clued up brief on the case or you're looking at a hefty fine/ban ← What you've said here got me thinking. They have to prove beyond resonable doubt that I was exceeding the speed limit and to what extent. They have to provide evidence to this extent. Now I'm sure an estimate will not stand up in court since they were going off their own speedometer. It was a normal panda car not a Traffic patrol vehicle so therefore will not have a calibrated speedometer. I've asked about what methods a policeman may use to gauge my speed and these appear limited to Radar, Laser, VASCAR and pacing. None of these methods were applied in my case. I'm trying to be optomistic at this point but its hard work. In answer the other chap's question yes I am the guy who passed my test and jumped on an R1. I'm still getting used to it and a 150mph+ police chase just isn't in my remit. I swear blind I was never travelling at that speed at any point whilst on the M62 that day. Now its going to be a matter of what the police say and what my solicitor says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Beezkneez Posted May 30, 2005 Moderator Share Posted May 30, 2005 wor kid is a copper i'll ask him what the crack is and post back up once i know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Was it you? Were u speeding? Or did they follow someone else and then catch up to you and think you were him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzy Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 i had this last december in the work van they gave me points and a fine but obviously i was not doing 150 mph and i later found out that as long as they follow you for quater of a mile they can get a rough estimate off there speedo providing they stick to exactly the same speed as you now in my experience as a wanker i figured that 99% of panda cars are no bigger than bout a 1600 cc engine ie the focus only has a top speed of approximatley 125 mph so there is no way they can gues your limit i would not worry to much and just do as the solicitor says and play completley innocent to the judge just act soft and dont be stuborn and you willprob get off with points fine and warning as therew is only visual proof no photographic evidence good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatecrasha Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 dont know how valid this reply of mine will be in this circumstance but, as i understand it:- if a n officer sees you exeeding the limit, he can without evidence of radar etc etc etc, pull you over, he can however only give cautionary advice as theres no factual evidence at all, however.... should the same situation occur in the presence of 2 officers then, the following applies... 1st arresting officer, makes staement to facts, 2nd officer acts as a witness -who is also of good standing... if both believe you are driving/riding above the speed limit then its the word of two - fine upstanding members of society's word against the word of yourself, yourself being without witness's hence your nicked sonny and the court deals out its punishment, also word of advice DO NOT ever call anyone a liar in court, as the charactor assasination that will then take place on you is gonna leave you a shrivelling wreak, and then they really will throw the damn book with full force, sit back/keep calm/bend over n touch your toes, as when they shaft you it aint so bad if you are behaving, if you play up then its gonner hurt when they shaft you..... trust me i been there.... and there again and well you get the drift steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDYROSE Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Hi, I don't post on here too often so hope you guys don't mind me putting my thoughts in the pot. I have always understood that a single police officer in a vehicle is able to present a case for prosecution based solely on their evidence, as long as they can provide a speedometer reading, and they have followed you for the 1/4 mile required. That is how a policeman on a bike can book any vehicle for speeding. The speedo reading is apparently regarding as coroboration of their evidence. As to the legality of the rest of this, it sounds very grey indeed. The best advice has already been given, and that is find a very good solicitor, preferably one who specialise in such cases. There are quite a few adverts in the bike press for these specialists, worth talking to one or two I am sure. Are you a member of the AA or RAC as they have legal departments who may be able to help? I would do it asap and not wait for a summons to arrive as there tend to be very little time to deal with things between the date of a summons being issued and the hearing. Good luck. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuntman Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 ok i have been caught with a average of 137 over 2/1/2 miles but i was on video. i was driving my car at the time. to be honest i was very fortunate and had a ok copper. i still was warned by the officer that i would get time for it as i was over 120mph. ( lesson learnt don't race a police m5 down the m18). As the term will be heard in a magistrate court only resonable doubt has to be installed as evidence to convict. Hence two police office will give better evideince than resonable doubt. As there was no calibrated data on the speed you was going only evidence you was breaking the limit car really apply. in which case just a fine and 3 or 6 points. what will not go in you favour is having a R1 particularly as your first bike. they will see that the bike has been bought to tear round on like the road is a race track. now i'm not saying that what your doing( but if you see a old bloke with a 17year old girl holding hand in hand you know its not his looks she after,,,,, maybe is daughter is the second thought) i personaly got 6 points and a two grand fine however. The police officer and the video showed the the car was been driven within my means and with consideration for the right conditions. That was my saving grace. all i can say is bend over and take it. Sell the bike and don't get one for another few years. if you tell the court you have sold it or are going to sell it. do what you have said and leave it at least 12 month before you get a bike again. doing it first shows remorse for your actions.... Your saving grace is they are not traffic hence now as fully aware what happens on the road wa sthey another R1 on the road that past you???? did the police take you reg??? not what leathers you had on?????? or did they take it after??????. look for discrepences. if you are sure there was defend you case but remember they havent to prove beoned doubt so you could get stuck with it. just be careful what you say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzy Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 a mate of mine got pulled in his rover exactly 6 months ago today and he has no licence or insurance the police gave him a summons etc at the side of the road and let him go home in his car any way his son got arrested for driving his mini moto outside his house and whilst chatting to the officer dave asked him about this case of him being pulled over and the police man said if you here nothing within 6 months then you are laughing as there is nothing anyone in the world can do to reinstate the case as it has been scrapped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Alex Posted August 30, 2005 Admin Share Posted August 30, 2005 Good advice here. I know its a bit late! http://www.pepipoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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