jimmythemoonlight Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 hi folks, heres one for you ....i have refitted my new 2nd hand engine on my freshly powder coated frame at the moment it would seam to be going well but....i took my old starter motor off the old lump and stuck it in the new to me lump ..wired it all up and went for the start ....i got a clicking noise... had a mate round who said it was starter motor..no further a do i whipped it off and took it apart , i found that a small bit of the magnetic lining had broke off and was jamming the mechanism.., then i removed the bit , put the damn thing back together and hey presto it rotated when linked up to the batt, sorted i thought, so i installed the starter motor back into the lump and hit the ignition ...sound as the starter motor turns but no cranking of engine,,,,, mmmmm me thinks, gets me workshop manuel out and there is a bit in there about a starter clutch mechanism... i investigated this as this appeared to be almost text book...however everything moves freely in the right direction no defects to be found,,,, which leads to ask the following.....is it possible that i have put the starter motor back in such a way that it is rotating in reverse ?? which way should she turn clockwise or anti clockwise, non of this info is in the manuel, an answer woulld be grately appreciated....
Moderator drewpy Posted March 17, 2012 Moderator Posted March 17, 2012 usually anti clock wise, the rotation of the engine. The starter clutch should only go one way easily and then lock up the other!
Moderator Airhead Posted March 18, 2012 Moderator Posted March 18, 2012 the starter motor should turn in the same direction as it takes to lock up the starter cutch, then as the engine fires the clutch is disengaged by the faster running engine
jimmythemoonlight Posted March 18, 2012 Author Posted March 18, 2012 thanks once again airhead,it is official..the starter is running backwards-clockwise. what a ball ache, the last thing i need as my funds have almost ran dry,looking on ebay they seam to retail at around the fifty quid mark, there aint any bike breakers local to me. has anybody out there has a spare one at a reasonable price??????????????????
Moderator drewpy Posted March 18, 2012 Moderator Posted March 18, 2012 strip it and see why the thing is going backwards. You haven't mixed up the live and earth leads have you?
jimmythemoonlight Posted March 18, 2012 Author Posted March 18, 2012 yeah i had it stripped but to be fair looking at it i would think the only way to have it run backwards is have it wired back to front, i am pretty clueless about electrics at the best of times, just to be sure would i be right by having the red wire to the positive on the bat terminal? and thus the black to negative?
Moderator drewpy Posted March 18, 2012 Moderator Posted March 18, 2012 correct, wonder if you re-polarised the magnets in the motor?
jimmythemoonlight Posted March 18, 2012 Author Posted March 18, 2012 how do drewpy , whats this repolarised thing in which you speak ??? how can i get the magnets back to normal ?? is what happened to my starter a common problem or have just got some awkward luck??
Moderator Cynic Posted March 18, 2012 Moderator Posted March 18, 2012 Think dewps is showing his age with old skool dynamo's that needed flashing to work right. That starter will have permanant magnets and a central armature fed from a commutator, (segmented thing that the brushes run on) if its going backwards its either connected up weird as i think the case is ( - ) or a winding has gone.
jimmythemoonlight Posted March 18, 2012 Author Posted March 18, 2012 hello cynic, i have just had a google of the polarity magnet thing and i see what you mean ref flashing and all that,i have not wired it wrong at all, the windings within the motor dont look like they have any defects and all looks to be in fairly sound condition,,,
Moderator drewpy Posted March 18, 2012 Moderator Posted March 18, 2012 http://www.ehow.com/video_4765941_make-electric-motor-run-backwards.html
neversaydie Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 hello cynic, i have just had a google of the polarity magnet thing and i see what you mean ref flashing and all that,i have not wired it wrong at all, the windings within the motor dont look like they have any defects and all looks to be in fairly sound condition,,, Hi Jimmy,Id be inclined to swap over the leads to the battery ie red to neg/black to pos and see what happens. Think of it as a water pipe system, electrons become water flowing through a pipe, swap the pipes over, water flows on the opposite direction. I think thats how dc motors work
jimmythemoonlight Posted March 19, 2012 Author Posted March 19, 2012 Hi Jimmy,Id be inclined to swap over the leads to the battery ie red to neg/black to pos and see what happens. Think of it as a water pipe system, electrons become water flowing through a pipe, swap the pipes over, water flows on the opposite direction. I think thats how dc motors work hello there mr never say die, if i put the wires on back to front ref red on black - black on red would it not mean the frame becomes live ? as opposed to the earth? or is it a case of run it backwrds for a bit and see if that sorts the polarisation thing out ? i am startin to run backwards over this.....its the only thing stoppin me from startin my engine for the first time....i dont even know if the fella who sold it me was tellin the truth about it being a gooden ..
jimmythemoonlight Posted March 19, 2012 Author Posted March 19, 2012 ok folks....i would just like to put a big thanks out there to those who replied ,,,i am forevever in your debt...i have now got the thing running in the correct direction exactly what i have done will allways remain a mystery however i did this.....took off bike , took it apart, rinsed the whole thing with an abundance of wd40, with a towel rubbed all bits to a shine, placed a big blob of lithium greese on any moving part where contact was, felt a nice smooth mechanism with the thing re assembled, put it straight on the batt -the wrong way round...it then rotated clockwise..then put it on the bat the correct way and balla-bing it went the correct way anticlockwise.....whoop-dee-doo, i have now fitted it to the engine with a makeshift fuel feed to the feul line, i have cranked her and she is doing the right noises but seams to not want to start, i aint put my exhaust on but i am hearing a lovely poping noise as the motor turns, i did get a nice flame out the rear pot ....does this mean my timing is out ?? any advise is surely welcomed as this site is pretty much my only source of info...........
jimmythemoonlight Posted March 19, 2012 Author Posted March 19, 2012 ok so any advise please... i crank her over and the front cylinder makes a popping noise at regular intervals and continues to do so with thumb off starter, then after about five or six pops or so i get a fire from the rear cylinder and it then ends, any one know whats going on??? she wants to start but some reason or other there is a pocket of resistance...the poppig noise sounds just like when you pull a cork out of a bottle possibly a chateax neuff du pap....or poss a zinfandelll
Moderator Cynic Posted March 19, 2012 Moderator Posted March 19, 2012 Leads are the right way round? Front to front etc.
jimmythemoonlight Posted March 19, 2012 Author Posted March 19, 2012 hey there cynic...yes the leads are correct, had a go at swapin them over just for the sake of it and unfortunatly to no avail, i have no idea but it seams to me like the timing is out by 180 deg, however according to the manuel the the ignition timing is not adjustable....,,, i am out of ideas and rapidly losing hope....spark plugs are spot on.. no coke on them, looks like the engine was looked after prior to me gettin it, fuel supply is good, i can smell fuel on the plugs after a few turns, i have the occaisional ball of flames out the carb and out the rear cylinder,i was kind of hoping that i could just pop this engine in and it would run then fine tune it at a garage.. i am a bit worried because if i need to start looking at valve clearances i will be getting well out my depth...a serious lack of tools etc.. any ideas??
Moderator Cynic Posted March 19, 2012 Moderator Posted March 19, 2012 It may well not be adjustable but it may be possible to fit it incorrectly or even connect the pick ups arse backwards. Does sound ignitionish, no airleaks carb side are there?
jimmythemoonlight Posted March 19, 2012 Author Posted March 19, 2012 no airleaks as far as i am aware, can you please expand on the pick up theory ? i aint a clue on that one??
Moderator Cynic Posted March 19, 2012 Moderator Posted March 19, 2012 As its a V surely there must be 2 ig pickups as the cyl fire at different parts of the rotation. My tdr fires at the same time for both pistons, just one is exhaust and one is power so it doesent matter. Your cylinders fire 90degrees apart, have to its a 90 degree twin so there must be 2 pickups, or 2 pulses at least. If these are going to the wrong place you will have weird stuff happen. It is not uncommon for the pulse coil (that is another name for the pickups) to be a bit flakey and that may also upset things. Get your nose in the manual. Never had one of these to bits but its how my dad's intruder works (2 points on the flywheel)
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