angus Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Hi, I bought a 650 dragstar a couple of weeks ago and have been meaning to join here for a while but have now been spurred on by it dying. Worked and ran fine for the first week and a half then last Wednesday, after riding it back from work I left it a couple of hours, definitely no lights or anything left on, and when I came to start it it just made a clicking sound and refused to start. RAC man came out and tested the battery and concluded the battery was knackered and needed replacing. I put a new (GS) battery in and it worked fine until this evening when exactly the same thing happening. I jump started it and then rode it about 15 miles, initially on the motorway and then through traffic for about 5 miles. Then at lights it died again. This time everything went off and when I hit the starter it wouldn’t even click, lights and everything went off and even the neutral light was hardly lit. I have removed the battery and it is now on charge but any suggestions would be very gratefully received. Thanks a lot for any help in advance, much appreciated. Angus
Moderator Airhead Posted October 27, 2011 Moderator Posted October 27, 2011 regulator/rectifier springs to mind, stick a voltmeter across the battery and see if the voltage increases as the engine is revved
angus Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 OK, thanks, from reading previous posts on this forum that was what I was starting to lean to. Will get my mulitmetre from home tomorrow and give it a go and post up the result. Thanks for the help.
Ttaskmaster Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 The reg/recs do tend to suffer on the 65- Drags, mainly because of the idiot who put them right behind the front wheel where they get covered in rust-inducing road crap. But if the battery is OK, check the wiring also. Could be something as simple as a loose connection. Do you have any accessories, alarm, heated grips and the like? Do you leave the bike with just the ignition switched on, much?
angus Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 regulator/rectifier springs to mind, stick a voltmeter across the battery and see if the voltage increases as the engine is revved OK, so with the engine off the voltage is 12.93, then when started and revving it a bit it hovers around 14.2 ish, which I understand means it is all working as it should? The reg/recs do tend to suffer on the 65- Drags, mainly because of the idiot who put them right behind the front wheel where they get covered in rust-inducing road crap. But if the battery is OK, check the wiring also. Could be something as simple as a loose connection. Do you have any accessories, alarm, heated grips and the like? Do you leave the bike with just the ignition switched on, much? Does strike me as a pretty stupid place to put something electric. The above test seems to suggest that maybe there is some wiring shorting out somewhere, strange that is doesn't seem to have any rhym or reason to it. I don't have any accessories, literally as it left the factory, and I don't ever leave the ignition on when the bike's not running, which is why I was surprised as apart from dying at the traffic lights the symptoms are just like what you would expect if I'd left the headlights or or something. Thanks for help so, far will keep investigating and look for a short somewhere/corroded wires.Maybe best to fit a kill switch somewhere.
Moderator Airhead Posted October 30, 2011 Moderator Posted October 30, 2011 does it discharge overnight or longer?
angus Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 does it discharge overnight or longer? Seemingly longer, as was a week between the two failings to start. Also I put a fully charged battery in on friday lunchtime and did the tests this afternoon and it was fine. There does not appear to be any draw on the battery with the key in the 'off' position either.
Moderator Airhead Posted October 30, 2011 Moderator Posted October 30, 2011 There does not appear to be any draw on the battery with the key in the 'off' position either. How have you rested for this, an ammeter in series with the battery?
angus Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 How have you rested for this, an ammeter in series with the battery? yes, and also with a test light.
Moderator Airhead Posted October 30, 2011 Moderator Posted October 30, 2011 yes, and also with a test light. a test light?... explain so you disconnected the battery on one terminal and connected an ammeter between the cable and battery...is this right?
angus Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 a test light?... explain so you disconnected the battery on one terminal and connected an ammeter between the cable and battery...is this right? Yes, ran the ammeter between the disconnected negative cable and the negative terminal on the battery. Is this the wrong thing to have done? Just what I read on another thread either here or somewhere else. Test light is just one of those ones that looks like a pen with a point on one end and a crocodile clip on the other and I did it in the same way to see if there was a current being drawn. Again might be wrong thing to do but had one kicking about so gave it a try.
Moderator Airhead Posted October 30, 2011 Moderator Posted October 30, 2011 Yes, ran the ammeter between the disconnected negative cable and the negative terminal on the battery. Is this the wrong thing to have done? Just what I read on another thread either here or somewhere else. Test light is just one of those ones that looks like a pen with a point on one end and a crocodile clip on the other and I did it in the same way to see if there was a current being drawn. Again might be wrong thing to do but had one kicking about so gave it a try. I dont see how the test light would work but if the ammeter showed no current flow with the key of, that to me is a clean bill of health. Coupled with what you said earlier about the voltage increase across the battery I would say alls well...maybe with the exception of the battery itself or there is a bad connection somewhere...sounds a tricky one I was expecting some current flow that may have righted itself with the reg/rec being unplugged. I'm stuck too now!
angus Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 I dont see how the test light would work but if the ammeter showed no current flow with the key of, that to me is a clean bill of health. Coupled with what you said earlier about the voltage increase across the battery I would say alls well...maybe with the exception of the battery itself or there is a bad connection somewhere...sounds a tricky one I was expecting some current flow that may have righted itself with the reg/rec being unplugged. I'm stuck too now! OK, thanks for all your help, I will keep riding it and see how I get on and when it iss light again I'll go over the wiring harness very carefully and check for loose connections etc. It is a bit of a weird one because of the time between faults when it has been being ridden every day in between. On the test light, you are right I am sure - I just figured if there was a significant draw it should light up as the circuit would be complete, and it seemed to work when the ignition was set to 'on'. If I do find what the problem was I'll post it up in case it is of use for anyone in the future. Thanks again, much appreciated.
gizmo666 Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 hi there i just bought a dragstar 1998 classic on the ride home very wet and dark so traveled with the spots on as well and found battery drained when i got home looking around the forums i found this explains it all to me Forum: the 650 V Stars "Custom, Classic & Dragstar" Forum Subject: Electrical System Explained From: Spider (TB6517) To: (ALL) DateTime: 10/1/2005 12:03:15 AM I have been working on putting together a complete map of the 650 Electrical system with wattages,etc so folks understand a bit better exactly how much you can add and what you can expect to be the outcome of adding extras. The following items on the bike use the power constantly: Headlight - 55W Taillight - 8W Front Running lights - 16W Speedo light - 2W Ignition Coils - 72W Ignition Module - 20W This means that under normal running conditions the bike will use at least 173W of power.According to the test data from Electrosport in their comparison of their stator to the stock one, the stock system puts out 169W at idle(1200RPM) and 221W at 5000RPM. Yamaha states that the stock system puts out 280W Max so most bikes will fall between the 221W and 280W marks. Here are some additional power usages: Signalling - 28W Braking - 27W Carb Heaters - 60W Passing lamps - 60W (smaller units) - 110W (larger lamps) The carb heaters kick in when the temps are lower than 12 degrees Celsius.What this means is that the bike will consume 173W + 60W = 233W of power when the carb heaters are on. My 2000 Classic puts out something like 235W-240W at 5000 RPM which is barely enough to keep the system running without using the battery while highway riding only. At idle, the charging system cannot keep up and an additional 64W are drawn from the battery. I have a battery monitor on my bike and was able to verify the above. I'm sure the “My battery died” posts are going to start now that the weather is getting cooler and a lot of folks falsely blame the battery when it is actually the weak charging system and too many electrical accessories that are to blame. Bottom line is that if you ride in temps lower than 12 degrees Celsius, you had better not run your passing lamps or any other extra lights or you will drain the battery and have difficulty starting.
Ttaskmaster Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Gizmo, that little breakdown is utterly awesome!! For once, I fully understood an explanation of bike electrics without having to Google the meanings of everything and only once was spotted counting on my fingers!! Very nicely done, chap!!
angus Posted November 3, 2011 Author Posted November 3, 2011 Gizmo, Sorry for the slow reply, I haven't set up the options to make it email me when someone replies. Thanks a lot for that info, which would certainly explain why it died after driving in heavy traffic, in the cold, at night, when the battery had only been jump started! As Ttaskmaster says, very clear and concise. Cheers for that, Angus
PeterC Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Likewise Gizmo. What a well explained piece. I've copied it somewhere safe - I hope cheers Peter
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