Toutsuite Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Ok so guess what got delivered today and what I spent the afternoon / evening doing? Yup, got me some pipes! My draggie is now "complete"! However, on the test ride (not rejetted yet) I did this evening I discovered the following: - They are too BLOODY LOUD! Ok maybe not for some people with straight-through pipes, but they were louder than I expected. YouTube doesn't do them justice. I didn't dare open the taps too much (so didn't notice any difference in power), I was riding through residential areas after all, but I can just imagine SCREAMING down the motorway at 70! :-( It would be deafening! So I'm now looking into getting quieter baffles for them. - There was a LOT of popping and some backfiring on deceleration (which I fucking hate - I mean really fucking hate). Does anyone know if rejetting cures that, even if not completely? The stock pipes popped as well, but did so really quietly, and they didn't backfire, so didn't really matter. Maybe the quieter baffles will sort that out. Rejetting if done, will be done professionally btw, I have neither the tools nor the skills for it. On the subject of rejetting, I have a question for Taskmaster: you say it should always be done, but what about slip ons which are advertised as not needing rejetting? The cruzers are not labelled slip-ons (nor are they lebelled full exhausts), but as they reuse the stock front header pipe they are to all intents slip-ons. And if the air intake has not been changed, why would rejetting be needed? Appreciate your thoughts... Update: may have found the solution: http://www.smartpartz.com/SPZVH300CZ.html
landdownunder Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Straight pipes are always going to make alot of noise and back fire,that's why we like the sound.Unfortunately those who lean towards those types of pipes,as you end up putting baffles in. I have a slip on cobra muffler which aren't as load as straight pipes, but sound just as good & yes they back fire. Rejetting may solve some of your concerns,but these pipes are made to give better performance great sound & less wieght to your ride. Good luck,ride safe & saty upright
Toutsuite Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 The cruzers have baffles in them, they are not totally straight through pipes, it's just the v&h mufflers aren't very good at muffling! (mind you I'd dread to think what they sound like with the baffles removed!)
Noise Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Hey bud, with the back firing/ popping stupid question but....have you tightened the pipes up the the correct tourque settings and replaced the gasket? you "MAY" have a blow on the engine to exhaust join, thats what happened to me when i put my new pipes on being a cheap ass i couldn't be fucked with getting a new gasket right away so i threw the pipes on and they where popping n banging away like a good'en setting off a few car alarms on the way but once i got a new gasket and tightened up to the correct setting job was a propper one! Just a thought tho, you may have already done it but it sounds like you got excess air going through the pipes which is making them bang. All the best Keith
Ttaskmaster Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Checking it's all tight-fitting is good, but still re-jet. This will solve a lot of the issues and bring your performance back closer to the original set-up.
Toutsuite Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 I did change the gasket Keith, and all is tightened up, except possibly the bolts fixing the rear pipe to the outlet - I'm not saying it's loose, it's just that I didn't have quite the right tools for the job (like a handled allen key), the allen key I used was a bit crap. I've bought a proper set of allens now and will give those bolts a bit more tightening. Tmaster thanks for the reply, I'll wait till the hard kore quiet baffles are delivered, and after I've installed them and see what that does, I'll see about rejetting. Anyone know how much that costs? A couple hundred quid? Oh and another thing; on the stock mufflers, when I removed them I noticed two small neatly drilled holes underneath the bottom one and one on the top one; the holes look too neat to have been done in someone's garage. Were they like that from the factory? The holes were blowing out exhaust.
Noise Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Right it cant be excess air through the pipes to make her back fire etc so its gotta be over fueling slightly so a re-jet and your baffles "should" do the trick (i wont say will just in case there some other under lining issue which is making her pop lol) but im shore it will make a big differance. Not shore on the price on a rejet as mines already been done (so im told) but im sure if you set a side £200 then that should more than cover it. And yes those two small neat little holes are for condensation build up, just a way of stopping the pipes rotting from the inside out.
Toutsuite Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Well I doubt very much that the issue is an over-rich mixture, as the back-pressure must be a lot lower on the cruzers than with the stock pipes, therefore I presume airflow would be greater. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Popping on deceleration and when changing gear (when closing the throttle) is from what I've been reading typical of straight-through pipes, even ones with baffles. The HK quiet baffle I've got on order should increase the back-press, thus reducing the frequency and volume of popping.
Ttaskmaster Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Well I doubt very much that the issue is an over-rich mixture, as the back-pressure must be a lot lower on the cruzers than with the stock pipes, therefore I presume airflow would be greater. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Popping on deceleration and when changing gear (when closing the throttle) is from what I've been reading typical of straight-through pipes, even ones with baffles. You are correct - The open pipes allow greater airflow, making your mixture lean and thus your performance will be lower, but you'll get 5-20 more miles from a full tank. The popping noise is little pockets of unburnt fuel getting out into the exhaust pipes and then burning when they hit the hot pipe-wall. The baffle will increase pressure and *reduce* the popping, but you'll still need to re-jet - One reason is that the pipes won't then get so hot and discolour. Another is better overall performance and your top speed back up where it should be. As for how much to re-jet: Assuming you have your own tools (socket set, wrenches, spanners, allen keys and so on), make friends with your local mechanic and invite him round for a couple of beers, while he talks you through the process. The needles should only need raising a notch or two. Cost - A case of beer.
fearless joe Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 i just fitted (yesterday) the exact same exhaust to my star 650 except i think we differ in opinion, its no louder then my remus was on my er5 and all the backfire and overun burble is exactly the point of putting an exhaust like this on i like it alot
Toutsuite Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 As for how much to re-jet: Assuming you have your own tools (socket set, wrenches, spanners, allen keys and so on), make friends with your local mechanic and invite him round for a couple of beers, while he talks you through the process. The needles should only need raising a notch or two. Cost - A case of beer. Ah well, whether I have the right tools (or the social skills!) is debatable! So are you saying I wouldn't have to change the jets themselves to bigger ones, just adjust the needles? That would save me having to buy new jets. Another question I have is how does the mechanic figure out what jet settings are right? Among other things, does he measure the back pressure in the exhaust? I figure if I'm going to get this done, I should do it right.
Toutsuite Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Well fearless, it's all subjective right? I mean I like the sound of the v&h's as well, I just think they're too loud, and that's without really opening the taps. Try hitting the motorway at 70 for an hour or so, and then see how many days it takes for the ringing in your ears to go away! ;-)
Toutsuite Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Also there is the issue of getting pulled over by the police every so often if your pipes are too loud.
Ttaskmaster Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Right tools - Whatever is required to take the tank off (13mm socket, IIRC), get to and open up the carb. I can't recall exactly what tools as I haven't done it in a while, but certainly nothing you can't get from Halfords (or some lesser tool shop). I also STILL haven't gotten around to doing the jets on mine yet, due to lots of busy-ness in life and my mechanic is the same. But yes, that is all that's usually required. The V&H pipes may be slightly different, but if you're getting baffles fitted then there won't be much imbalance. Figuring out the jet size is a mathematical thing, so don't ask me - I hate numbers. Some may prefer to measure stuff precisely, but since a Cruiser ain't a high performance, highly tuned bike precise numbers don't matter that much. So long as the performance, fuel economy and sound are sufficient for your tastes, that's all that really matters.
Toutsuite Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Just took a measurement, 88db at 2 metres behind the bike @idle. Wasn't able to rev it up at that distance, but can imagine it cracking 100db without too much effort. Can't wait for those quiet baffles!
blackhat250 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 for an hour or so, and then see how many days it takes for the ringing in your ears to go away! ;-) Aye tout , its the same with Expansion pipes on a stroker, After about 50mls , it numbs the brain ,,, ,,
Leatherat Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I know this has been posted several times before, but have alook at this site........http://www.650ccnd.com/.........more info than you can shake a big stick at! Grab a coffee/Beer, sit, read, digest.......then get out into the garage!
Toutsuite Posted October 15, 2011 Author Posted October 15, 2011 Well, took her out for another spin, in daylight this time. Rode down the A2 for a bit, touched 60, still too loud (but just about tolerable), and there definately is some power loss (expected). The one thing I did manage to do is cut down on the decel popping by turning the idle screw and enriching the idle mixture. Reduced popping a lot. Back home I noticed that the rear pipe close to the header is already turning blue! (not the heatshield though, so it doesn't show). And that's only after 20 miles. Well she'll stay in my car bay for now until the quiet baffles are installed, and then I'll take her for a dyno diagnostic thingy. The couple of Harley's I saw on the road were all quieter than me!
Noise Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Yer but come off it, Harley riders these days are nothing like the "Bad Ass bikers" back in the day they are more than likely mid life crissis bank managers with more money than sense that just wanna cruse around parades flashing off all ther chrome parts they have just spent the past year polishing. Thats why yours are louder lol ( o hello Mr Hells angel lol)
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