GazzaP Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Hi all! Just picked-up an N-reg YZF750R, looking forward to using her properly... however, one niggle... the front brakes have no 'feel', no 'bite'... they work, but I don't like how they feel. The bike has had recent brakes front and rear (the rear feels fine, it's the front brakes I'm not happy with) and was MOT'd with no advisories just before I picked her up. I reckon it's the pads that have been used (no idea what make they are), maybe they just need bedded in... anyway, could anyone advise if this is 'normal' on YZF's? Or what make / type of front pads would be a good choice to get bite and feel? One member suggested bleeding the brakes (I asked this question in my intro, wrong place, sorry) and I will try that but the levers are firm, at a standstill you'd think the brakes were fine, but on the move when applying the brakes although the bike slows down there's no bite, I feel nothing through the levers just the sensation of the bike slowing down... never felt that before, my other bikes I could always feel the pads bite then the bike slow, the harder I squeezed the stronger the bite and the quicker I slowed... but not on this bike. I think it must be the pad material, too hard, cheap pads maybe... Thanks all, Gary
andyyam750 Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Hi all! Just picked-up an N-reg YZF750R, looking forward to using her properly... however, one niggle... the front brakes have no 'feel', no 'bite'... they work, but I don't like how they feel. The bike has had recent brakes front and rear (the rear feels fine, it's the front brakes I'm not happy with) and was MOT'd with no advisories just before I picked her up. I reckon it's the pads that have been used (no idea what make they are), maybe they just need bedded in... anyway, could anyone advise if this is 'normal' on YZF's? Or what make / type of front pads would be a good choice to get bite and feel? One member suggested bleeding the brakes (I asked this question in my intro, wrong place, sorry) and I will try that but the levers are firm, at a standstill you'd think the brakes were fine, but on the move when applying the brakes although the bike slows down there's no bite, I feel nothing through the levers just the sensation of the bike slowing down... never felt that before, my other bikes I could always feel the pads bite then the bike slow, the harder I squeezed the stronger the bite and the quicker I slowed... but not on this bike. I think it must be the pad material, too hard, cheap pads maybe... Thanks all, Gary Are you running the standard 6 Pots??? Braided Lines??? Stock Discs?? Any idea which pads you have in??
sfyamr1 Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Ahh yes, I remember it well! Though I still feel the YZF750 chassis may have been one of the best ever, the OEM brakes were a total 'yawn', despite their massive size. SS lines, a serious bleed and HH sintered pads are a must. Neither will help with feel, but you'll gain some grab. The sintered pads may give a little more feel. But, the only real solution is to bin the calipers. Simply, more marketing hype than bite. Depending on bolt hole spread (don't recall), go with the R1 calipers, or a pair of A/M Nissin Daytona 6-pots. They are stunning. I put them on my Duc, and truly awesome. Perfect modulation and feel, with eyeball popping power. Highly rec'd.
Moderator Cynic Posted July 21, 2011 Moderator Posted July 21, 2011 Ahh yes, I remember it well! Though I still feel the YZF750 chassis may have been one of the best ever, the OEM brakes were a total 'yawn', despite their massive size. SS lines, a serious bleed and HH sintered pads are a must. Neither will help with feel, but you'll gain some grab. The sintered pads may give a little more feel. But, the only real solution is to bin the calipers. Simply, more marketing hype than bite. Depending on bolt hole spread (don't recall), go with the R1 calipers, or a pair of A/M Nissin Daytona 6-pots. They are stunning. I put them on my Duc, and truly awesome. Perfect modulation and feel, with eyeball popping power. Highly rec'd. Too right +1 on the 'yawn' for what they are they are sh1te. Not to mention the mother of all bastards to bleed properly. People thing single caliper set ups give greif pah!, got nothing on those 6 pots. The nissin 4pots used on bandit 12's and the last of the gsxr's were as strong and give masses of feedback by comparison and should IIRC go straight on, as well as being cheap cos bandit12's are everywhere..
GazzaP Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 Yeah, standard 6-pots with goodridge hoses... don't know what make the pads are, just bought the bike, the previous owner fitted new pads front & rear for the MOT, rear is OK actually but front not good, I expect he fitted cheap pads just to get her mot'd before selling her on... I saw another post about R1 caliper swap, using 320mm ducati discs... looks good, maybe that's what I'll do. Thanks folks!
andyyam750 Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Yeah, standard 6-pots with goodridge hoses... don't know what make the pads are, just bought the bike, the previous owner fitted new pads front & rear for the MOT, rear is OK actually but front not good, I expect he fitted cheap pads just to get her mot'd before selling her on... I saw another post about R1 caliper swap, using 320mm ducati discs... looks good, maybe that's what I'll do. Thanks folks! I am running R1 Callipers with PFM Iron Discs so here are some tips if you are thinking of the conversion... 1. You can retain the standard discs, you just need to take a little material of the front edge of the pads. 2. You will need the Brake Master Cylinder, if you try and use the YZF Master Cylinder the end result will be even less feel... (displacement for the 6 pots is greater than the displacement for the R1 4 pots) 3. R1, R6, Thundercat, Thunderace all use the same callipers so any can be used to upgrade from the standard 6 pots. 4. You will need to remove a little material from the bottom of your fork legs to get the clearance for the 4 Pot Callipers. 6. Match your pads to your discs.. the Materials are sensitive.. Hope this helps Andy
GazzaP Posted July 25, 2011 Author Posted July 25, 2011 Thanks Andy! So, if R1/R6/Thunder*** calipers can be used can I use their discs too? When you say match the discs and pads, I was looking at EBC pads (used them before and liked them) however they have Kevlar (NAO) or sintered... so what disc would I look at with either of these? Any thought on Armstrong wavy discs?
wayno Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 Thanks Andy! So, if R1/R6/Thunder*** calipers can be used can I use their discs too? When you say match the discs and pads, I was looking at EBC pads (used them before and liked them) however they have Kevlar (NAO) or sintered... so what disc would I look at with either of these? Any thought on Armstrong wavy discs? Hi Gazza, I just saw this thread, if what you mean by no bite is having a front brake that has absolutoely no resistance or braking for the first half lever travel, then the brakes come on with plenty of stopping power then this is the same for every standard one I've ridden. I've heard the blue spots is the best upgrade, however you do need to change the master cylinder too. Apparently any of these discs should fit, if anyone knows differently let me know, and check the sizes before you buy them as this is just a list I've taken off the exup1000.co.uk website. YAMAHA FZR 750 Genesis 87 FZR 1000 Genesis 87-88 FZR 1000 EX UP 89-90 FZR 1000 EX UP 91-93 XJR 1200 95-98 XJR 1300 (5EA1/5EA7) (320mm front discs) (Brembo calipers) 98-99 (YZF750 and 94/95 FZR1000 EXUP can be exchanged with each other or any of these discs fitted) APRILIA RS 125 92- 03 single disc RSV 1000 98- SL 1000 2000- CAGIVA 125 Mito 91-93 125 Planet 97- 600 River 94- MOTO GUZZI Daytona 95- Centauro 97- Centauro Sp 97- California Jackal 99- California SP 97- Sport 95- LAVERDA 650 All models 94-95 668 All models 96-98 750 All models 98-01 DUCATI Supersport 400 (Twin disc) 93-97 Monster 600 (Twin disc) 93-97 600 SS 93-97 620 Monster 94- 620 Sport 03- 748 Biposto 95-98 748 SP 98 Supersport 750 (Twin disc) 91-98 750 Supersport 99 750 Monster (Twin disc) 96-98 750 Monster City/City Dark 99 750 Monster/Monster Dark 99 851 Superbike Biposto 89-92 888 Superbike Strada 94-95 900 Supersport/Superlight 91-97 900 Supersport 98-99 SINGLE DISC 900 Supersport CR USA 98 900 Supersport FE 98 907 IE 92-93 ST4 (916cc) 99 916 (Biposto) 94-96 916 sp, sps 94-97 916 Monster 01- 916 ST4 99- 944 ST2 97- ST2 (944cc) 97-99 996 BIPOSTO 98-01 996 R/S/BIPOSTO 02-03
GazzaP Posted July 26, 2011 Author Posted July 26, 2011 Brilliant list, thanks! BTW, by no feel I mean when I pull the lever I get no feedback, whether I pull hard or soft the only sensation I get is the bike slowing down, there's no bite or push back onto the lever to feel what's happening... I feel completely remote from the front brakes, it's surreal... not like the FZR600 or TRX850 I had years ago, not like the XB12S, CB1300 & ZX9R I've had more recently... the only other bike I can remember having poor-ish front brakes was my VTR1000... ...hopefully a change of set-up will cure this, I had hoped just changing the pads would fix it, but by everything I've read on here it seems the standard 6-pots aren't the best... I don't like skimping when it comes to brakes , so if I need to change the calipers, master cylinder, discs & pads then so be it... at least I can keep the Goodridge hoses, that's something!
andyyam750 Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 Hiya I see someone has already posted a list of the discs that will fit, but if you are going down the route of swapping to the R1 Blue Spot type Calipers, most of the Yamaha Discs will not get around the problem of Clearance. The issue you see is that the Blue Spot Pads run deeper on the disc(ie the inside edge of the pad is closer to the wheel spindle and therefore fouls on the standard YZF (FZR etc) disc mounting buttons (the rivets that hold the discs to the centres). R1, Thunderace etc discs will not swap as the disc mounting points to the wheels are different. Therefore you have 2 real Options: Option 1, re-use the original discs and just remove a little pad material to clear the disc mounting buttons..(check the condition of your discs though as the standard 6 pots have a habit of warping them and there is no point upgrading the calipers if your discs are still warped) Option 2, Swap to the Ducati, Aprilia (or later Yamaha XJR possibly)(the mounting buttons are apparently different on these so the clearance is not an issue). When I say make sure your pad material is matched to your discs I mean make sure the pads you use are compatable with the material the discs are made of and for the type of riding you do, sintered pads for Steel, organic/ceramic compound for Ductile Iron (like my PFM Discs).. Track pads do not suit road riding and vice versa... Finally go for the best set up you can afford, but match the parts wherever you can. Hope that all makes sense Andy
wayno Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I recgonise that crash helmet, listen to this man he knows his stuff
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