DJW997 Posted April 29, 2011 Author Share Posted April 29, 2011 If you get desparate i have a complete working brake system, it aint mint but it works fine. Certainly well enough for you to swap the guts out. At a price Thing is i can't see it being the master cyl, not unless you have done megga milage or really screwed up taking it apart. I still think your bleeding it wrong. Just think for a moment how much fluid that master cyl actually displaces, 15 maybe 20ml tops, an air bubble a quarter of that volume will render the brake useless. Have the pistons in the caliper moved yet, are they in contact with the disc? It will all have an effect. Whats pointed me towards the maser cyl is the fact that with the master banjo removed and a full reservoir, no fluid comes out at all! Tried putting some fluid the other side of the cyl today as drewpy suggested but it just made a big mess and didn't work either! Tried backbleeding as well with a squeezy bottle as you suggested and the fluid was just dripping off the calliper. Probably leaking through the end of the tube at the bleed nipple. The bike is just coming up to 5k miles so! I put the master cyl & the calliper back together exactly as I took it apart. The calliper pistons are away from the disc at the moment, I pushed one back a little get a drop of fluid over the o-ring before re-assembling. I'm considering buying a used master off eBay and a calliper rebuild kit (new seals etc.) along with that syringe bleed kit barkwindjammer suggested. My method of bleeding is open the nipple, squeeze the lever, close the nipple, release the lever - I think thats right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Cynic Posted April 29, 2011 Moderator Share Posted April 29, 2011 If you get desparate i have a complete working brake system, it aint mint but it works fine. Certainly well enough for you to swap the guts out. At a price I'm considering buying a used master off eBay and a calliper rebuild kit (new seals etc.) along with that syringe bleed kit barkwindjammer suggested. My method of bleeding is open the nipple, squeeze the lever, close the nipple, release the lever - I think thats right. Personally i squeese then open the nipple, each to there own. How many times do i need to say i have a complete working system under my bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW997 Posted April 29, 2011 Author Share Posted April 29, 2011 Personally i squeese then open the nipple, each to there own. How many times do i need to say i have a complete working system under my bench. I've tried both to be honest. What system is it then? Will it work with my bike? (XT 125 R) How much do you want for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Cynic Posted April 29, 2011 Moderator Share Posted April 29, 2011 I've tried both to be honest. What system is it then? Will it work with my bike? (XT 125 R) How much do you want for it? Its off a 1990 something DTR, and will i believe bolt straight on, Vez would know for certain. Needs a tidy up. 20quid and the postage and its yours. Master cyl, hose(scabby but works fine) and the caliper. I'm sick of moving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator drewpy Posted April 29, 2011 Moderator Share Posted April 29, 2011 Its off a 1990 something DTR, and will i believe bolt straight on, Vez would know for certain. Needs a tidy up. 20quid and the postage and its yours. Master cyl, hose(scabby but works fine) and the caliper. I'm sick of moving it. Vez has the Love bug ATM, won't see him for a while methinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkwindjammer Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Its not her at No72 is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Airhead Posted April 29, 2011 Moderator Share Posted April 29, 2011 Its not her at No72 is it ? Yup...that's the one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW997 Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 Well, as a last resort before buying new parts, I've ordered a back bleeding kit from eBay. Just a syringe and a bit of plastic tubing. Will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW997 Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Another update: Back bleeding syringe kit arrived today, had a go at reverse bleeding and no luck! Fluid just seeps through the threads of the bleed nipple. However if I remove the banjo bolt from the master cylinder and apply fluid, it will happily squirt into the system and out the banjo, so thats cleared up any possibility of blocked lines! Definitely the master cylinder then I think. Going to order a used one off eBay, or a new one from my local if it's not too stupidly priced along with a seal kit for the calliper & probably some new pads since they're wearing a bit thin. Will keep you posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Cynic Posted May 4, 2011 Moderator Share Posted May 4, 2011 Heloooooo still here, if you find owt thats gauranteed to work for under 30quid let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW997 Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Heloooooo still here, if you find owt thats gauranteed to work for under 30quid let me know. Haha - will do. Still don't know if your set is compatible with my bike though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkwindjammer Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Another update: Back bleeding syringe kit arrived today, had a go at reverse bleeding and no luck! Fluid just seeps through the threads of the bleed nipple. However if I remove the banjo bolt from the master cylinder and apply fluid, it will happily squirt into the system and out the banjo, so thats cleared up any possibility of blocked lines! Definitely the master cylinder then I think. Going to order a used one off eBay, or a new one from my local if it's not too stupidly priced along with a seal kit for the calliper & probably some new pads since they're wearing a bit thin. Will keep you posted! The syringe and bit of tube you bought are to assist in filling the system-and not a 'bleeding kit', this is where some confusion comes in 1 attach syringe to tube, dip end of tube in bottle of brake fluid and draw it up until full, hold tube pointing up and 'gently' purge it of air (there will always be a tiny air bubble at the end of the tube) 2 attach the tube to the bleed nipple (the bleed nipple should be open by 1/4 to 1/2 a turn only), open the banjo bolt a couple of turns, now squeeze the syringe (about 2mm, count to 10, and repeat, the key is to do this whole operation slowly) 3 repeat the gentle squeeze until fluid shows at the banjo end, now tighten the banjo, go back to the gentle squeeze again-fluid should fill the master cylinder and start to fill the reservoir. The back bleed method should really be called the 'back-filling' method, this method of filling the hydraulic circuit Helps to eliminate air bubbles from the other method of 'top filling' If you try to fill any slim vessel with a liquid/fluid from the top then air is introduced by the fluid 'glugging' down into it. Air is buoyant in a liquid and will try to 'climb' to the top. By filling from the bottom (slowly) the air will be pushed in the direction you want it to go-up After the system is 'filled' it still needs to be bled Which is Part 2 (tune in next Wednesday for the second episode) Hope this has helped-I need a lie down now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW997 Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 The syringe and bit of tube you bought are to assist in filling the system-and not a 'bleeding kit', this is where some confusion comes in 1 attach syringe to tube, dip end of tube in bottle of brake fluid and draw it up until full, hold tube pointing up and 'gently' purge it of air (there will always be a tiny air bubble at the end of the tube) 2 attach the tube to the bleed nipple (the bleed nipple should be open by 1/4 to 1/2 a turn only), open the banjo bolt a couple of turns, now squeeze the syringe (about 2mm, count to 10, and repeat, the key is to do this whole operation slowly) 3 repeat the gentle squeeze until fluid shows at the banjo end, now tighten the banjo, go back to the gentle squeeze again-fluid should fill the master cylinder and start to fill the reservoir. The back bleed method should really be called the 'back-filling' method, this method of filling the hydraulic circuit Helps to eliminate air bubbles from the other method of 'top filling' If you try to fill any slim vessel with a liquid/fluid from the top then air is introduced by the fluid 'glugging' down into it. Air is buoyant in a liquid and will try to 'climb' to the top. By filling from the bottom (slowly) the air will be pushed in the direction you want it to go-up After the system is 'filled' it still needs to be bled Which is Part 2 (tune in next Wednesday for the second episode) Hope this has helped-I need a lie down now I did exactly as you suggested apart from continuing after I removed the banjo just to see if the line was clogged! I believe the fluid was leaking from the threads of the bleed screw because the master wasn't letting the air up that the fluid was pushing - and of course it has nowhere to go so it leaked. I only opened it 1/2 turn so it couldn't have been too loose. Just to confirm - I did do this with the reservoir lid off. Do you think its worth trying again - filling the line then continuing to try and fill the master? I really do appreciate you taking the time to write all that! You deserve your lie down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkwindjammer Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Yep give it another go-and wear gloves as brake fluid is toxic, slow and easy is the way to go, leave the brake leaver alone too, the syringe should eventualy push the fluid all the way and fill the reservoir-even if it only is half filled then shut the nipple. job done Another tip I got from an 'oily jumper man' was to use a 'Ladies handbag buzzer' on the brake lines as this apparently shakes the air bubbles to the top, but I dont know what a 'Ladies handbag buzzer' is , and if I did I dont think I'd feel all that comfortable in the back garden, on a nice sunny day, using one to 'shake the bubbles', but if you know any ladies who may posess such a device then give it a go-and put up a post and some pics to let us see how you got on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW997 Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Yep give it another go-and wear gloves as brake fluid is toxic, slow and easy is the way to go, leave the brake leaver alone too, the syringe should eventualy push the fluid all the way and fill the reservoir-even if it only is half filled then shut the nipple. job done Another tip I got from an 'oily jumper man' was to use a 'Ladies handbag buzzer' on the brake lines as this apparently shakes the air bubbles to the top, but I dont know what a 'Ladies handbag buzzer' is , and if I did I dont think I'd feel all that comfortable in the back garden, on a nice sunny day, using one to 'shake the bubbles', but if you know any ladies who may posess such a device then give it a go-and put up a post and some pics to let us see how you got on L O L! I tried again, failed again. All the fluid was just seeping through the threads of the bleed nipple - no matter how slow or fast I push the syringe. Got the fluid up to the top of the brake line no problem though. Will get a new master on eBay tonight. And yes, I really should be using gloves! I do have a thorough cleanup when I'm finished though. I am a little OCD when it comes to clean. Very interesting idea about shaking bubbles.. I think I'll give that one a miss though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkwindjammer Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Ok, sounds like there's a 'lock' somewhere, and yep you may get some bleed around the threads-your putting the system under pressure remember, the threads on the nipples might be worn-thats why I suggested getting new ones in an earlier post-thread tape (PTFE) will help. If I were you I'd be snapping Cynics hand off for his complete gubbins, you will be looking at doubling that price just for the 'master', then you've got the 'E-bay gamble' - good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW997 Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Ok, sounds like there's a 'lock' somewhere, and yep you may get some bleed around the threads-your putting the system under pressure remember, the threads on the nipples might be worn-thats why I suggested getting new ones in an earlier post-thread tape (PTFE) will help. If I were you I'd be snapping Cynics hand off for his complete gubbins, you will be looking at doubling that price just for the 'master', then you've got the 'E-bay gamble' - good luck The problem with Cynics set is that I don't know if it's compatible with my bike. As for pricing I've found a new master for £30 on eBay! So I think I'll give that a try. Will keep you posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neversaydie Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Yep give it another go-and wear gloves as brake fluid is toxic, slow and easy is the way to go, leave the brake leaver alone too, the syringe should eventualy push the fluid all the way and fill the reservoir-even if it only is half filled then shut the nipple. job done Another tip I got from an 'oily jumper man' was to use a 'Ladies handbag buzzer' on the brake lines as this apparently shakes the air bubbles to the top, but I dont know what a 'Ladies handbag buzzer' is , and if I did I dont think I'd feel all that comfortable in the back garden, on a nice sunny day, using one to 'shake the bubbles', but if you know any ladies who may posess such a device then give it a go-and put up a post and some pics to let us see how you got on Handbag buzzer???? I suspect if your neighbours clocked you carressing a motorbike with a dildo the men in white coats would soon be round Yes, please post pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJW997 Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Hey guys, another update! New master cylinder came today and works fine, pumps fluid out unlike the old one! I loosened the master cylinder banjo and back filled the line with my syringe, was a good amount of the fluid dripping from the nipple on the calliper though - and when I tightened the banjo to back fill the reservoir, all fluid I squeezed into the calliper from the syringe would leak from the nipple. Also when using the 'traditional' bleeding method, I only get a tiny bit of fluid running down the inside of the tube, and over time (opening/closing the nipple) it drips from that. And yes I am keeping the reservoir topped up! I've ordered a new nipple from my local Yam dealer. £5?!! But the problem I'm still having is getting pressure in the lever. Though the nipple leaks a little fluid when I use the 'traditional bleeding method', some fluid comes through the tube, and the fluid level decreases in the reservoir so the master is working and pushing it all through, but why aren't I getting any resistance in the lever? I'm hoping it's just the leaky nipple, but am I missing something? The bleeding method I'm using is: Pump the lever 4-5 times, hold it in (comes right back to the bar - no resistance what so ever), crack open the nipple 1/2-3/4 of a turn, tiny bit of fluid dribbles out, close the nipple, start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Cynic Posted May 10, 2011 Moderator Share Posted May 10, 2011 Hey guys, another update! New master cylinder came today and works fine, pumps fluid out unlike the old one! I loosened the master cylinder banjo and back filled the line with my syringe, was a good amount of the fluid dripping from the nipple on the calliper though - and when I tightened the banjo to back fill the reservoir, all fluid I squeezed into the calliper from the syringe would leak from the nipple. Also when using the 'traditional' bleeding method, I only get a tiny bit of fluid running down the inside of the tube, and over time (opening/closing the nipple) it drips from that. And yes I am keeping the reservoir topped up! I've ordered a new nipple from my local Yam dealer. £5?!! But the problem I'm still having is getting pressure in the lever. Though the nipple leaks a little fluid when I use the 'traditional bleeding method', some fluid comes through the tube, and the fluid level decreases in the reservoir so the master is working and pushing it all through, but why aren't I getting any resistance in the lever? I'm hoping it's just the leaky nipple, but am I missing something? The bleeding method I'm using is: Pump the lever 4-5 times, hold it in (comes right back to the bar - no resistance what so ever), crack open the nipple 1/2-3/4 of a turn, tiny bit of fluid dribbles out, close the nipple, start over. You are opening the nipple properly aren't you? you won't feel any pressure on the lever till there is enough fluid in the system to produce the pressure. Open the nipple up properly and push fluid with the syringe till it fills the master cyl without any obvious bubbles. Then fine tune the traditional way if you must. Didn't ever have to bother on my old suzuki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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