TY175 Information

[Teflon-Mike]

OK, well, the DT125 is still waiting for me to get round to doing anything with it, but I've had my hands full runnng about after the G/F who has 'ideas'! Last one she had was to restore a bike..... so she took my 750 to bits!

THOUGHT I'd solved that problem getting her a little Honda Super-Dream to play with, but no!

We were looking at some old pictures & vids, of me trials riding, and NOW she wants to have a go at dirt-riding....

LUCKILY the DT is to tall for her to ride.....

UN-LUCKILY my beloved 1981 Montesa Cota 248, that I have had since it was just over three years old, ISN'T....

In fact, its just RATHER small enough for her to be coveting it....

So before it ends up half stripped, with vital bits missing and other vital bits hanging off, like the 750 did...

I've been trying to research TY 175's

I haven't ridden one for probably quarter of a century, but what I remember is that they were a LOT more manageable than the 250, and conveniently were not 'quite' as single minded as a lot of low slung rock-hoppa's (like my cota)

Notion that strikes me, is that its got probably 'just' enough saddle height to be useable on the road over a distance, yet be low enough that the lady can get her little feet flat on the floor at traffic lights and stuff, or get feet-up and do some 'lanes on the thing, and MAYBE even a T-shock trial under an observers scrutinouse gaze.

As a plan.... to preserve MY bikes, and some sanity, does this sound reasonable?

Next up.......

Mechanics wise, I never actually spannered more than a spare clutch or brake lever on one back in the days I was riding School-boy, but I DO remember that they were very closely related to the DT's, particularly the earlier T-Shock ones.

However, some conflicting specs have got me wondering. One of them, described the TY175 as having a four speed box. I was sure it was as the DT, a six cogger? But leading from that, what else is the same / different?

Does any-one have a link to 'definative' specs for them (and the DT for that matter for comparison)?

Reason for asking, being that ther are a couple of routes to sorting her out with one, if she decided to follow the idea up. One is to simply buy a reasonably complete, ready to ride, example; other is to hand her a frame, engine, forks and a box of spanners, and hope that keeps her from atacking my Cota!

You can guess which is the preffered option! Though I do worry that if TOO much is interchangeable, I might end up with bits going mysteriousely 'missing' from the DT!

But if that was the preffered route, I was pondering the possibilities of hybridisation, particularly in the motor.

I mean, as an 'all-round' green-laner come comp-trialer, what cog options might there be to mix and match to get say 1st & 2nd really low, & 5th & 6th really high, to give a better spread of gears to cover all bases?

But of course, that presumes that they share common bottom ends, & do both have six speeders. elsewise, whats the possibilities of using a six-speed DT bottom end in teh TY frame, but using TY barel for the softer porting (if it has such?!)

Any Ideas?

[nayruf]

OK, well, the DT125 is still waiting for me to get round to doing anything with it, but I've had my hands full runnng about after the G/F who has 'ideas'! Last one she had was to restore a bike..... so she took my 750 to bits!

THOUGHT I'd solved that problem getting her a little Honda Super-Dream to play with, but no!

We were looking at some old pictures & vids, of me trials riding, and NOW she wants to have a go at dirt-riding....

LUCKILY the DT is to tall for her to ride.....

UN-LUCKILY my beloved 1981 Montesa Cota 248, that I have had since it was just over three years old, ISN'T....

In fact, its just RATHER small enough for her to be coveting it....

So before it ends up half stripped, with vital bits missing and other vital bits hanging off, like the 750 did...

I've been trying to research TY 175's

I haven't ridden one for probably quarter of a century, but what I remember is that they were a LOT more manageable than the 250, and conveniently were not 'quite' as single minded as a lot of low slung rock-hoppa's (like my cota)

Notion that strikes me, is that its got probably 'just' enough saddle height to be useable on the road over a distance, yet be low enough that the lady can get her little feet flat on the floor at traffic lights and stuff, or get feet-up and do some 'lanes on the thing, and MAYBE even a T-shock trial under an observers scrutinouse gaze.

As a plan.... to preserve MY bikes, and some sanity, does this sound reasonable?

Next up.......

Mechanics wise, I never actually spannered more than a spare clutch or brake lever on one back in the days I was riding School-boy, but I DO remember that they were very closely related to the DT's, particularly the earlier T-Shock ones.

However, some conflicting specs have got me wondering. One of them, described the TY175 as having a four speed box. I was sure it was as the DT, a six cogger? But leading from that, what else is the same / different?

Does any-one have a link to 'definative' specs for them (and the DT for that matter for comparison)?

Reason for asking, being that ther are a couple of routes to sorting her out with one, if she decided to follow the idea up. One is to simply buy a reasonably complete, ready to ride, example; other is to hand her a frame, engine, forks and a box of spanners, and hope that keeps her from atacking my Cota!

You can guess which is the preffered option! Though I do worry that if TOO much is interchangeable, I might end up with bits going mysteriousely 'missing' from the DT!

But if that was the preffered route, I was pondering the possibilities of hybridisation, particularly in the motor.

I mean, as an 'all-round' green-laner come comp-trialer, what cog options might there be to mix and match to get say 1st & 2nd really low, & 5th & 6th really high, to give a better spread of gears to cover all bases?

But of course, that presumes that they share common bottom ends, & do both have six speeders. elsewise, whats the possibilities of using a six-speed DT bottom end in teh TY frame, but using TY barel for the softer porting (if it has such?!)

Any Ideas?

Hi Mike

I have a twinshock DT175 and it has 5 gears not 6, I don't know if the later MX has 6 I think It might. I have noticed that although the DT and TY share some engine parts there are subtle differences, email this place as they specialise in refurbing the DT range of bikes, If I was looking for a good off/on road bike of the type you suggest I would buy a DT175 MX 1979 onwards

[Cynic]

Hi Mike

I have a twinshock DT175 and it has 5 gears not 6, I don't know if the later MX has 6 I think It might. I have noticed that although the DT and TY share some engine parts there are subtle differences, email this place as they specialise in refurbing the DT range of bikes, If I was looking for a good off/on road bike of the type you suggest I would buy a DT175 MX 1979 onwards

Yes the later MX has 6. The twinshock DT would be a better bet if you are planning road use. Seats better, gearchange mech is stronger and they are easier and cheaper to get hold of.

These are the people to talk to about TY's. If they don't know it then its not worth the bother. Their main business is finding,restoring and riding/competing TY's.

TY Trials

Good luck.......

[Airhead]

If you go to the workshop section and see if there are any parts manuals for the TY's, then you can count the cogs on the gearbox layout

[Teflon-Mike]

Hi Mike

I have a twinshock DT175 and it has 5 gears not 6, I don't know if the later MX has 6 I think It might. I have noticed that although the DT and TY share some engine parts there are subtle differences, email this place as they specialise in refurbing the DT range of bikes, If I was looking for a good off/on road bike of the type you suggest I would buy a DT175 MX 1979 onwards

Thanks nayruf; I have a DT-MX... it's a mongrel, an early round section swing-arm model. I love it, but the G/F is to short to touch the floor from its perch!

Had a look at Red-Rose; take it thier named after the Lancs Classic Long-Trial.... no specs, but suppose if I e-mail them they may be able to tell me more.

Yes the later MX has 6. The twinshock DT would be a better bet if you are planning road use. Seats better, gearchange mech is stronger and they are easier and cheaper to get hold of.

These are the people to talk to about TY's. If they don't know it then its not worth the bother. Their main business is finding,restoring and riding/competing TY's.

TY Trials

Good luck.......

Thanks for the link to TYTrials, too, there cynic; very interesting article on the Shirt/Andrews Majesties, but again bit thin on the sort of interchangeability ideas I'm looking for.

I hadn't really considered a T-Shock DT.... but now you mention it! Raises possibilities, especially as a project! Ie; strip-down the DT I have, with an earlier T-shock motor in later MX-Frame, get a T-Shock frame, & some body-work, rebuild it as original. Find some MX forks and yokes, rebuild the MX frame with the spare motor, as original! (sounds SO! Simple said like that, doesn't it!)

Notion of a TY for her though, was becouse my 'thought', which is probably now proved wrong, was that the TY was basically the early T-Shock DT or enduro, with different cloths....

My understanding was, that the frames, forks and engines were the same, the difference was the tank on the TY was slimmer, and it had a lower solo-seat and plastic rear mudguard, where the DT/Enduro had larger tank, thicker duel-seat and slightly shorter, chrome rear-mudguard.

Looking at pics, I spotted some differences; the DT exhaust wraps over the engine & behind the frame rails & side panels, where the TY exits infront of the frame rails and has a heat-guard on the mid-box, rather than a side-panel.... so maybe the frames aren't the same......

Though getting more genned up, possible that the earlier TY's were re-dressed DT's, (with what now seems definitely a 5-speed box) while later ones, got a six-cog box, from the MX generation engines, and thier own T-Shock frame.... I dont know at the moment. Like I said, trying to sort out the detail, doing my research.

So far (Please correct me if I'm wrong, or elaborate where you can!):-

- TY production appears to go from '73 to '84, all being T-Shock. Suggesting earlier bikes had the five speed & possibly five port motors of the DT, later ones the, six speed motors, shared with the DT, but not sure if they got the 7-port barels. (125/175 models; 250's continued longer, going Mono-Shock about '84/'85, I think)

The DT's liniology seems a tad more complex, starting in about '68, and going through to date, with lots of spec changes along the way, and some over-lap in naming conventions! Early bikes, up to around '75 seem to have been badged 'Enduro' or 'Trail', with the DT monika appearing occassionally; Wasn't until the MX was launched that the DT badging was standardised for the 'road-orientated' dirt-bikes, coming I THINK from the 250's engine serielisation, AT having been a badge applied to earlier 125's, & CT(?) applied to some 175's? The MX continued until '83, with the air-cooled engine, but after-that, the 125 got the all new LC motor. The 175 continuing with the air-cooled engine for some markets, and revised 'LC' styling. The 125LC evolving to the modern DTR125, gaining multi-linked suspension, over cantelever at some point, along with disc brake. Though I'm basically only concerned with the air-cooled, pre-'83 bikes.

So, T-shock DT may be an option; looking at some pics, she was rather taken by the 250 T-shock!

But at the moment, I think the Ty175 is the 'default' choice or at least the bench-mark, I'm working to.

As standard the seat isn't SO thin it would be too uncomfortable for laning, and the seat height is low, which is what she needs.

MX we know from her tyring to sit mine, is too tall for her.

T-shock might be lower, and more comfy for longer road runs, but IF we get her something, it wont be an every-day bike. She has the little Super-Dream for the road. This will just be for some Sunday-Afternoon Mud-Plugging...

On that basis, practically, we are reasonably well endowed with G/L's round us... well... its not brilliant on the west side of town, we have Cov & Brum, while Warwickshire is a G/L dead-zone, with an incredibly un-accomodating council & few decent trails.... but east of us we have the Twycross trails, and North & South of those, plenty, heading into the boarders of S.Staffs, Liecestershire & Northamptonshire.

There's 'enough' close enough to have a crack at on an evening or after-noon, without having to do big road miles or major arterials, and keep her grinning for a few hours.

If she got a bit more seriouse about it.... well... I'd wimp-it! Trailer the bikes out to Matlock or Corwen, or further afield on the back of the old Rangie!

Yeah, I know! NOT the 'done-thing', but hey! I'm getting old, and if I'm riding for fun, treking 100 odd miles up the major arterials of the A5 or A444, on a knobly shod leightweight aint it!

Far rather wimp-it, sit in silhillian splendour being hauled along by a lumbering V8, listening to the sterio through the boring bit; then have some-where to dry-off, and plug in the lappy so I can get on Trail-wise, or consult Mem-Map, boil up a brew, and keep some tools incase of, etc!

And a TY gives the 'pottential' for some comp-trials.

I live fourteen miles from the Yenards, the venue for all Earl-Shilton Trials-Club's events, and family membership offers its use for practice when there are no events. A facility I used to make full use of when I was a member and riding with them and Peak-Classic Trials, in regular competition.

That offers scope, if the notion takes her, to do some rock-hopping, and as close as the Yenards is, its not too far to ride the bike to the venue rather than trailering it, and maybe even doing a couple of the Hinkley G/L's en-route!

If her interest evolved in that direction, well, it would be easy enough to convert a TY to full comp-spec, adding at first a GRP tank & squab-seat, big-ring for the back-wheel, and some Trials-slicks.

If not, then it could still prove a versatile little dirt-bike for 'laning, IF she gets on with it.

Thought occurs, that like the cut-down squab-seat for trials, IF her interest errs towards 'laning only, then we might be able to do a little adaptation to make it a bit more suitable for that use, and making up a thicker padded, and possibly a tad longer seat, may be one thing we could do.

Or if my initial idea about interchangeability with DT models is there..... possibly use a T-Shock DT seat... see how my mind is mulling & why its the interchangeability question thats vexing me?

And the notion of doing something with the spare engine and MY DT......

Spotted a couple of TY frames on e-bay for pennies, and even a TY gear-cluster..... More ponder points.... leave my DT as is, use the spare engine, with a TY Cluster in a TY frame, dress to suit.... all depending on the interchangeability question.

Thing is, options are there, with a TY, and while I apreciate they tend to be the more expensive varient, thats also becouse they seem the more popular..... to my mind, means IF she doesn't get on with one, or dirt riding in general, its more easily moved on for something she can get on with.....

But at the moment, its all up in the air, she's got her Super-Dream to finish putting together, and her road-training & test to get out of the way. (she's been riding on & off for eight years on CBT certs!)

When it comes to it...... ANYTHING could happen with this girl!

Taking her over the other side of Leicester tomorrow to a Peak-Classic Trials Club event; She's only ever seen You-Tube clips of real-trials and home-vids of me when I was competing.

Only 'real' off-road action she's ever seen, seems to have been an afternoon, when a previouse boy-freind & his mate engaged in a little 'Rebel-Riding' ending up at the Yenards, via a bridle-way that crosses part of the venue, & hacking about on the trials course on gawd knows what trail-bikes.

I'm just checking out pottentialities & possibilites!

I dont know what she'll think after tomorrow. She MAY be completely put off the idea of a dirt-bike in any shape or form; but probably just as likely, she'll be clamouring for me to fettle my old Cota up and wanting me to get her a Day Membership for the next Peak-Classic event!

NOT too sure I'm comfortable with THAT idea.... I bought that bike in early 1985, so have owned & ridden it for quarter of a century; it's my 'Baby'... not sure I even want to let some-one else RIDE it, let alone chuck it at big boulders!

And, even if I over-come that mental hurdle, I'm not sure its really a good bike to stick a dirt-virgin on.

It's a cantankerouse old beast; piston ported, kick-through-clutch engine, with heel-change box. Swing-arm's been shortened from stock, and the seat height lowered, she sups pre-mix from a 1.5 Gal tank, and rolls on super-sticky Pirelli Trials slicks.

Its about the 'zeneth' of T-shock Trials evolution, and very much dedicated to the persuit. It's by far and away NOT a bike that can be practically used on the road.

My bike is an '81 model 248, the sleeved down '250' version of the 350cc 349, Ulf Karlson took the 1980 World Trials Championship on. Other T-Shocks would take the next four WTC titles, but it's generally accepted, since no-one elce could place a Honda TL T-shock, that Eddie Lejeune's riding genius, was all that kept the Fantic Mono's off the top slot, as they were beating almost every thing else, every where else!

The Yam TY's, were, by 1980, considered 'Dated' yet they kept making the T-Shock versions, getting ever more dated for another three or four years, as they were a popular club-man's mount.

Thier limited capability aginst their italian & Spanish rivals were more than made up for by thier sturdy construction, renouned reliability, and the fact that if you stuffed a Fantic, you'd better have had a spare one ready to complete the rest of the season, 'cos if you broke anything more essential than a mudguard or control cable, you didn't stand much chance of getting the bit from the dealers.... if there was one.... and you could be waiting until next year before a part turned up from italy..... and even then, it would probably be the wrong one!

I've competed T-shock from almost the class's conception in the early nineties, until about five years ago, when I had to give up riding competatively.

Seen plenty of people turn up on old Fantics, SWM's, Beemish Suzuki's, Montesa Cota's, Bultaco Sherpa's or OSSA MAR's. Of all of them, the Sherpa is probably the best supported, but it was past its best by about '76/'77, and the earlier bikes were no-where near as specialised as the later-ones. The Cotas, are moderately well supported, but the earlier 247's & 348's were always a step behind the sherpa's. These are the easier bikes to live with, by way of getting bits to restore & run them. The others, you take your chances with!

Apart from the Yam's. They were just ALWAYS there, and have carried on, doing what they always did.

Padding the field in club competition in thier day, its probably not surprising that theres still so many around, or that in Classics, aproximately a third to half the field is nearly all TY mounted.

And having ridden them as a School-boy, I know that the TY175 is by far one of the easiest bikes to get to grips with..... it just seems the most 'sensible' option for the situation.

AND, I have to admit, I am PROBABLY more than a little biased towards the compers, and IF she's going to do it on dirt, I'd like to see her give the sport a crack, rather than puddling about on Green-Lanes.

Especially as she SAYS she wants to do it to broaden her experience and develop her riding ability.

Was trying to explain it, but ALL other forms of motorsport are about tearing around like a blue arsed fly, getting no-where, fast..... (you can tell I'm a trials nut, and in NO WAY biggoted, cant you! ;-))

Only 'metric' to measure your personal performance by is how fast you have gone, and how far up the table you finish.

In Trials, you ride perhaps ten sections, maybe five times, in an event. Each one is observed and scored. Doesn't matter how fast your bike is, or how good your rivals are. End of the day, you get a score sheet and you can see how well you tackled each section, and whether you improved during the day...

While for Value for Money..... it is THE most accessible motor-sport on the PLANET!

£10 for an ACU trials licence. No medical, no insurance, nothing. Club membership & Event entry Varies, but typically £10 a year Club dues, £10 an entry for each event.

You can compete a whole ten round club championship for under £150, before event expenses, & machine maintenence, which, as the bikes aren't highly strung spead-freaks, need NOT be much more than basic service spares.

And each entry, you get four hours or so of good riding in!

Compare that to the closest rival, Enduro! about the only other sport you get the same duration of competition hours in, but at hugely more cost. After that, you are looking at events costing x times more to enter, giving you as many x times less riding time!

And pretty high likely hood, that at the end of the day, all your achievement will be tarnished by NOT being the winner!

In Trials, compete aginst yourself, EVERY-ONE can be a winner!

Well, thats what I've been telling myself for the last thirty odd years ANYWAY! :-)

For Snowie (G/F), I think she'd enjoy, Green-Laning, and she'd probably get quite a bit from doing some, but its not really THAT challenging, and she'd not develop her riding MUCH in the way I think she hopes after a few outings.

At least with ME.

I got the DT with the idea of using it to get me riding again, after having to give up comp-trials, a bit of fun, with the pottential to do a bit of 'laning just for fun, an excuse to go ride, and get out the house. I'm not out for any personal challenges, or to seek mock, enduro thrills.

And I'd not be too enthusiastic to encourage Snowie to go out with any-one to whome 'Laning WAS that kind of thing, its just against my value set. The public road is NOT the place to push the envelope, whether on a sports-bike or dirt bike, the place for testing the limit is in competition, end of. Green-Lanes are public roads, without tarmac, a place for a drive or ride in the country, seeing the scenary, getting off the beaten track, and away from the main-stream of Sunday-Drivers... and if there's the odd section that is a bit more interesting along the way, so much the better... but its not the be-all and end all of the ride or drive!

ANYWAY..... rambling away...... dont know where we've got to.... think that I might have been talking us into the TY a lot more convincingly, and opening myself up to charges of swaying her towards comp-trials, becouse its 'my' sport, when all she wants is to hack something about a field and see how she gets on...... BUT..... we'll see?!?

Got to go pack a picnic, think I might be scoring a section tomorrow!

Night all!

If you go to the workshop section and see if there are any parts manuals for the TY's, then you can count the cogs on the gearbox layout

Thanks git... yup, been down-loading manuals; have the T-shock manual for the engine for bike, in hard copy, have parts of the MX manual for the frame, in variouse pdf files, and possibly forreign languages, and have found I think a copy of the TY owners manual..... all good stuff, and probably, when I get to compare them , answer a few Q's about actual specs of different variants, but the interchangeability Q is probably one books wont give me.... well... parts catalogues MAY give some answers in some, places, but some of the stuff, like swapping seats between variants, I dont know!

Anyway, any more grist to the mill, more than apreciated!