82 xs400 with a funny turn signal

[spark-z]

Just recently bought an XS400 Heritage Special. I have to pick up the repair manual still but I thought I would ask all of you a question to see if I could get started on the problem sooner than later.

Firstly, the turn signal works mostly but sometimes when standing at the stop lights the signal just stays on and does not flash. I discovered that if I rev up the engine just a little bit the signal starts to flash again. Any one experience that before or have any ideas where to start searching for the problem?

On a side note my battery isn't keeping a charge. I managed to give the battery a good charging from a battery charger, put it in the bike and used my multi-meter to test if the battery was getting the 13.5 volts from the bikes charging unit when rev'd to over 3000rpm and it was. I think maybe I just left the lights on and when driving in bad city traffic the battery wasn't getting enough charge to keep the bike going. Or at least that is all I hope it is. Or maybe it is related to the above problem. I don't know.

[kindest]

Just recently bought an XS400 Heritage Special. I have to pick up the repair manual still but I thought I would ask all of you a question to see if I could get started on the problem sooner than later.

Firstly, the turn signal works mostly but sometimes when standing at the stop lights the signal just stays on and does not flash. I discovered that if I rev up the engine just a little bit the signal starts to flash again. Any one experience that before or have any ideas where to start searching for the problem?

On a side note my battery isn't keeping a charge. I managed to give the battery a good charging from a battery charger, put it in the bike and used my multi-meter to test if the battery was getting the 13.5 volts from the bikes charging unit when rev'd to over 3000rpm and it was. I think maybe I just left the lights on and when driving in bad city traffic the battery wasn't getting enough charge to keep the bike going. Or at least that is all I hope it is. Or maybe it is related to the above problem. I don't know.

can you hear "clicking" when it's solid? could be a bad ground connection that kicks on when the bike vibrates a little more then usual? My headlight would come and go and the only way I fixed was by redoing the fuse panel (which was pretty painless and easy).

[OllieB]

Do you know anything about the age of your battery? If the cycle was in storage for some time, the battery may have gone bad. It will take a charge of sorts but that charge won't have any depth to it. Are you starting the bike w/the electric starter or kick start? If you have to use the kick start because the starter seems weak, your battery may be bad. Need more info.

A deteriorated battery may test at 12 volts but have little reserve capacity and not charge back up enough with only the bikes charging system. If you need to buy a new battery, I would highly recommend a sealed type battery known as an AGM battery. These hold a charge much longer on standing and will take vibration, etc. much better than a regular liquid acid battery. When you charge these little batteries, don't charge at more than 2 amps charger output and leave the charger on for the duration indicated by this formula: Battery Amp Hour rating divided by charger output = hours on charger. Ex: 12 Amp Hour battery divided by 2 amp charge = 6 hours on charge. Pumping 10+ amps charge into a small battery for too long a time can damage a new battery.

Could also just be a bad signal flasher unit but from the description of your battery situation, you have something else going on too.

[jmj166]

my turn signals had that problem, i just took the bulbs out and put them back in more securely, if one is not blinking the other one will stay on(rear not blinking=front stays on). Sorry if i'm pointing obvious stuff out but i didn't think of it while i was on my bike and noticed it.

[OllieB]

my turn signals had that problem, i just took the bulbs out and put them back in more securely, if one is not blinking the other one will stay on(rear not blinking=front stays on). Sorry if i'm pointing obvious stuff out but i didn't think of it while i was on my bike and noticed it.

Good point!! better to try the easy stuff first.

[spark-z]

kindest, no clicking that I can notice. When you talk about redoing the fuse panel, do you mean pulling out the wires and reassembling it?

jmj166, that is an easy one to check

OllieB, I have to use the kick start because even after charging the battery I still couldn't start it with the electric start.

I will check the bulb first but then I think I will be getting a new battery. I kinda figured I needed to anyway so if that helps then great. If not then I get to try other things. I did order my Haynes today. Very exciting. I have one for my truck and it is ever so handy. I love Haynes.

One other question, finding parts for these bikes, do I just hit the bike salvagers or are there other sources for new parts?

[kindest]

kindest, no clicking that I can notice. When you talk about redoing the fuse panel, do you mean pulling out the wires and reassembling it?

jmj166, that is an easy one to check

OllieB, I have to use the kick start because even after charging the battery I still couldn't start it with the electric start.

I will check the bulb first but then I think I will be getting a new battery. I kinda figured I needed to anyway so if that helps then great. If not then I get to try other things. I did order my Haynes today. Very exciting. I have one for my truck and it is ever so handy. I love Haynes.

One other question, finding parts for these bikes, do I just hit the bike salvagers or are there other sources for new parts?

http://www.yamahaclub.com/forums/topic/16081-xs400-links/

scroll down for info but yes cutting wires and rewiring it. parts are easy to get.

ebay, local yamaha dealer, bikebandit.com, etc.

[OllieB]

My original fuse box was still in place but all the circuits were nicely rewired using twist lock glass fuse holders and they were tucked underneath the old fuse box. When I removed the top of the old fuse box and touched one of the tangs which hold the fuses in place, it broke right off - brittle with age and, I believe, exposure to battery acid fumes resulting from lack of attachment of battery vent hose. I kept the new fuse holders but bought a repro fuse box from the U.K. just to have the original look.

I am betting on a bad battery. In the U.S. you can get an AGM battery from NAPA that has a 1 year free over-the-counter replacement warranty. Many places only offer a 6 mo. warranty. When i bought my bike in June, the seller said the battery was new last Summer but that I wouldn't start the engine very good and that maybe the starter was bad. All that was needed was a complete, proper charge and it has been perfect ever since.

[spark-z]

I am back. I discovered that the turn signal went solid when I depressed the brake so I am thinking that there are crossed wires somewhere, but let's keep in mind that I know nothing. So I finally unpacked from my move and found my Haynes book so I was going to start looking for the problem this weekend but then something horrible happened this week. The bike went right dead. The pilot box would not even light up when in neutral and the brake lights would not come on and of course the bike won't start.

The first thing I did was take a reading of the battery. It showed 9volts. Then I watched some YouTube videos to learn how to use all the multimeter functions and checked it again the next day and got a reading of 1V. It was draining on it's own and fast. I checked the fuse box and the main line fuse clip was very eroded and fragile. So I was thinking okay that will need replacing but I started playing around some more and discovered there is still continuity through that clip (this is with the key in the off position, should that happen?). The voltage on both sides of the clip is steady at 1V. So I thought it would have been the fuse since there was no power getting to the lights but the fuse (and all other fuses) is fine and the continuity is fine. I am thinking there is a short between the battery and the fuse box and that is why the battery is draining but how do I explain the lights not working even when there was 9V?

What do you all think?

Thanks again.

p.s. I don't want to take it to a mechanic, not because of cost, but because I want to learn. I enjoy the challenge and the help I get

[OllieB]

I am back. I discovered that the turn signal went solid when I depressed the brake so I am thinking that there are crossed wires somewhere, but let's keep in mind that I know nothing. So I finally unpacked from my move and found my Haynes book so I was going to start looking for the problem this weekend but then something horrible happened this week. The bike went right dead. The pilot box would not even light up when in neutral and the brake lights would not come on and of course the bike won't start.

The first thing I did was take a reading of the battery. It showed 9volts. Then I watched some YouTube videos to learn how to use all the multimeter functions and checked it again the next day and got a reading of 1V. It was draining on it's own and fast. I checked the fuse box and the main line fuse clip was very eroded and fragile. So I was thinking okay that will need replacing but I started playing around some more and discovered there is still continuity through that clip (this is with the key in the off position, should that happen?). The voltage on both sides of the clip is steady at 1V. So I thought it would have been the fuse since there was no power getting to the lights but the fuse (and all other fuses) is fine and the continuity is fine. I am thinking there is a short between the battery and the fuse box and that is why the battery is draining but how do I explain the lights not working even when there was 9V?

What do you all think?

Thanks again.

p.s. I don't want to take it to a mechanic, not because of cost, but because I want to learn. I enjoy the challenge and the help I get

Kind of difficult to diagnose w/o being there. The fuse box is a known issue. The metal tangs that hold the fuses in place corrode and become quite brittle - to the point where, when you move them a little, they break off. Often the cause is battery acid fumes venting right onto the box area because the battery vent tube went missing or became detached from the battery vent nipple. Make certain you have a vent hose and that it is connected. The hose should drop down to just below the frame, keeping the fumes away from anything delicate. This bike has 4 fuses. The amp value of each fuse should be moulded into the box top or printed on a label. Many folks remove the original fuse box and solder in 4 fuse holders. There are different types out there. My bike still uses the original type glass fuses but they are inside weatherproof screw top holders. Others use the newer style fuse with holders that have plastic or rubber caps that keep the weather out. I bought a repro fuse box and screwed it in place (for the original look) and left the newer screw cap fuse holders under the box. Get rid of the old box now as it may be the cause of some or all of your electrical gremlins. One step at a time. Don't fret, you will end up with a nice, reliable bike as well as learn how it works and how to maintain it.

[spark-z]

My battery still has it's hose and it is vented properly down to the bottom of the bike. I am going to a salvage place at lunch today and hopefully they will have something for me otherwise off to 'The Source by Circuit City'. My fuse box is original as well and I would like to keep it that way if I can. We will see.

The salvage place I am going to closes after today for the whole winter They were becoming my friends I was there so much lol j/k. They do have my new air filters though. That is the main reason for going today.

[OllieB]

My battery still has it's hose and it is vented properly down to the bottom of the bike. I am going to a salvage place at lunch today and hopefully they will have something for me otherwise off to 'The Source by Circuit City'. My fuse box is original as well and I would like to keep it that way if I can. We will see.

The salvage place I am going to closes after today for the whole winter They were becoming my friends I was there so much lol j/k. They do have my new air filters though. That is the main reason for going today.

Good news about the battery vent.

You might also rebuild the original fuse box. IIRC, there has been discussion on this forum regarding such. In any case, you need to do something or your electrics won't be reliable. When you look down on my repro box, the bike looks stock - you just can't see the 4 individual fuse holders below the box. At first, I too was going to replace the newer fuse holders and restore power to the box but I now believe the setup I have makes the bike more reliable and still appears stock to the casual observer. An open-to-the-elements old style fuse holder is just not good for that location.

Glad you located some air filters!!

[spark-z]

When you look down on my repro box, the bike looks stock - you just can't see the 4 individual fuse holders below the box. At first, I too was going to replace the newer fuse holders and restore power to the box but I now believe the setup I have makes the bike more reliable and still appears stock to the casual observer. An open-to-the-elements old style fuse holder is just not good for that location.

I also got a replacement (used) fuse box (without lid) with the cable and connector that goes.....who knows where lol. Exact same as what I already have but in much better condition. Do you have pictures of what you did?

[OllieB]

I also got a replacement (used) fuse box (without lid) with the cable and connector that goes.....who knows where lol. Exact same as what I already have but in much better condition. Do you have pictures of what you did?

Don't have any pics. I did not do the replacement, that was done by the P.O. All I did was replace the bad condition fuse box with a new repro. This (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Bussmann-30-Amps-rating-black-in-line-SFE-fuse-holder-for-1-4-in-x-1-1-4-in-fuses/_/N-25gq?counter=3&filterByKeyWord=fuse+holder&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=32422_0_0_) is the type of fuse holder the P.O. installed. Some folks use this (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Bussmann-30-Amps-maximum-heavy-duty-in-line-ATC-fuse-holder-with-cover/_/N-25gq?counter=1&filterByKeyWord=fuse+holder&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=32415_0_0_) type for the newer style fuses. Since I have never seen a stock fuse box setup, I really don't know how/what the connector looks like. My son's '80 also had the fuse box replaced with individual fuse holders by a P.O.

[spark-z]

i am hopefully going to have time tomorrow to do some testing. Did discover that my new battery will not charge. It is completely dead. I think I want to check the voltage regulator first once I get a new battery.

[spark-z]

Well I got the new battery charged and put it on the bike. Got the bike started and started testing the charging system. Hooked up the battery to the multimeter to check the voltage. No matter how high I rev'd it I couldn't get it to go above 13.7volts and it is supposed to be 14.0-14.5. So I figured I start on the alternator because it seems to have a problem(or an adjustment to the voltage regulator screw, but I will check that later).

Checking the leads of the alternator I disconnected the second lead block connector with the three white wires, those were supposed to give me .72ohms. I didn't get that reading and I can't remember now what the exact reading was but I think it was just over 1.0ohms. Now here is the funny part. The main lead is supposed to have 4 wires that are green, green, orange, gray (reading the haynes manual) but I have black, green, blue and yellow (which is also shown in the wiring diagram in the back of the Haynes manual) I guess that I had to take a reading between the black and green wires (the two that come from the alternator, not the neutral switch [blue] and oil switch [yellow]wires)even though the instructions say green, green. I was supposed to get 4ohms but I only got 3.3ohms. This is telling me the alternator has a problem.

So now the questions;

When reading the main lead wires I am checking between the two wires (black + green)coming from the alternator, as in I put a probe on the black and the other probe on the green and read the resistance between them, right? (don't flame me because I am a noob, lol)

Also bike bandit doesn't seem to let me select the alternator parts for ordering, how do I find a new one if it isn't just a loose connection.

To take apart the alternator housing, I guess I should drain the oil first?

Thanks again,

Spark-z

BTW with a fully charged battery the signal keeps flashing with the brake depressed. Funny

[Cy Welch]

Well I got the new battery charged and put it on the bike. Got the bike started and started testing the charging system. Hooked up the battery to the multimeter to check the voltage. No matter how high I rev'd it I couldn't get it to go above 13.7volts and it is supposed to be 14.0-14.5. So I figured I start on the alternator because it seems to have a problem(or an adjustment to the voltage regulator screw, but I will check that later).

Checking the leads of the alternator I disconnected the second lead block connector with the three white wires, those were supposed to give me .72ohms. I didn't get that reading and I can't remember now what the exact reading was but I think it was just over 1.0ohms. Now here is the funny part. The main lead is supposed to have 4 wires that are green, green, orange, gray (reading the haynes manual) but I have black, green, blue and yellow (which is also shown in the wiring diagram in the back of the Haynes manual) I guess that I had to take a reading between the black and green wires (the two that come from the alternator, not the neutral switch [blue] and oil switch [yellow]wires)even though the instructions say green, green. I was supposed to get 4ohms but I only got 3.3ohms. This is telling me the alternator has a problem.

So now the questions;

When reading the main lead wires I am checking between the two wires (black + green)coming from the alternator, as in I put a probe on the black and the other probe on the green and read the resistance between them, right? (don't flame me because I am a noob, lol)

Also bike bandit doesn't seem to let me select the alternator parts for ordering, how do I find a new one if it isn't just a loose connection.

To take apart the alternator housing, I guess I should drain the oil first?

Thanks again,

Spark-z

BTW with a fully charged battery the signal keeps flashing with the brake depressed. Funny

Ok, here is the deal, your readings are all in the same range I have found on working charging systems. What I have found, is all these years later, the resistance tends to be just a little off from spec, but this is not saying they are bad, just old. The most common failure is the voltage reg or the rectifier (or combined unit depending on what you have). These can be had off ebay used and good pretty cheaply. Oh, and on the newer models contrary to what the haynes (or clymer for that matter) manual, there is no adjustment on the voltage reg, its solid state and non-adjustable. One test is if you check the wiring diagram, there are two wires to the field coil, one get battery voltage and the other goes to the reg and gets partially to fully grounded to energize the alternator. If you have the bike running and ground the side that goes to the reg you should get an increase in voltage at the battery, if not, then the rectifier may be bad, if the voltage does go up the reg is bad. There is also a test in the manual for the rectifier grid that is pretty simple to do and can rule that out as being bad. What I'm saying here is that your readings on the stator wires and field coil are almost exactly what mine read, and mine works great. When mine wasn't working it was the regulator, quick fix (tough to change though being on the bottom of the battery box.

[spark-z]

Cy Welch, thanks alot dude. I was going to check the reg and rect next anyway but after your response I feel better about the whole situation. Unfortunately I have to back off the bike for a couple of weeks while I do a complete teardown on my friends Tecumseh snowblower engine. I will get around to checking again and tell you what I find out.