Got a new (to me) 1980 xs400 Special

[drewpy]

lemon fresh carbs?

here you go

http://www.bikermetric.com/2010/02/techtips-1.html

[compCoder]

Alright, was able to get out and work on it a bit this afternoon, got the gas drained and tank removed, had to run to the store and buy some PB Blaster to try to remove the petcock screws holding it to tank, and it isn't working, i think due to the screw gaskets, its not getting in there. I don't know if its ever been removed, but its stuck right and good in there. I am soaking it and banging on it about every 10 minutes, if I can't get it, guess I will have to try drilling it out or something, as I do not own an impact wrench...any other tips for this dumb problem are great, the phillips head screws are horribly soft too, not totally stripped, one is partially, but I can still get some torque on it, the other is still in good shape, though still stuck

[johnsnownw]

Alright, was able to get out and work on it a bit this afternoon, got the gas drained and tank removed, had to run to the store and buy some PB Blaster to try to remove the petcock screws holding it to tank, and it isn't working, i think due to the screw gaskets, its not getting in there. I don't know if its ever been removed, but its stuck right and good in there. I am soaking it and banging on it about every 10 minutes, if I can't get it, guess I will have to try drilling it out or something, as I do not own an impact wrench...any other tips for this dumb problem are great, the phillips head screws are horribly soft too, not totally stripped, one is partially, but I can still get some torque on it, the other is still in good shape, though still stuck

Ace hardware sells a cheapy impact wrench that I used on my carb screws, I think it was only $15.

[johnsnownw]

Ace hardware sells a cheapy impact wrench that I used on my carb screws, I think it was only $15.

You could also try using an electric drill, with a fat phillips head attached. You'd have to be really careful though.

[2 Wheels]

Alright, was able to get out and work on it a bit this afternoon, got the gas drained and tank removed, had to run to the store and buy some PB Blaster to try to remove the petcock screws holding it to tank, and it isn't working, i think due to the screw gaskets, its not getting in there. I don't know if its ever been removed, but its stuck right and good in there. I am soaking it and banging on it about every 10 minutes, if I can't get it, guess I will have to try drilling it out or something, as I do not own an impact wrench...any other tips for this dumb problem are great, the phillips head screws are horribly soft too, not totally stripped, one is partially, but I can still get some torque on it, the other is still in good shape, though still stuck

This will sound silly to ya mabey but, try tightening them first, then loosening

[compCoder]

alright, went out and picked up an impact driver this morning, and got those ridiculously stuck screws off, only took like 4 good its to get the impact driver to turn them a quarter turn, then came right out with the screwdriver...rinsed tank with water, got some blue filmy looking stuff to come out (guessing gas varnish) and some small and large (large being about size of an american dime) pieces of black corrosion to come out, also, once dried, I could hear a bit of 'junk' shaking around in there. I got as much out as I could, but due to the lip on the inside of the bung, shape of gas tank, and area where the petcock hole is, its impossible, hoping the marine clean/metal ready will dissolve/liquify the remaining pieces so I can get the to pour out.

Anyways, got metal ready in now, going to move positions every hour or so (the directions are unclear, on the can of sealer, it says every 2 hours, on the sheet of paper, it says every 20 mins + shake, so I am going to shake every hour and reposition, should be done with this step in about 5 or 6 hours, then will use etch, says no longer than 20 mins per spot, so it should only take a couple hours, will blow dry for a couple hours, then seal it...so should be pouring in sealer by like midnight tonight...lol...going to rebuild petcock in time remaining.

When draining and testing the petcock, i found on prime i got a full flow from the tank, but on both on and reserve, I got flow, but its was probably about 1/8th of full flow, but still not stopped, that extra shutoff valve stopped it completely. Hopefully i can get the petcock to fully stop flow after rebuild. Also, the petcock does contain the in filter screen, and surprisingly, it is very clean, and very fine, but somehow, there are still a few tiny black bits in my inline filter, would it be wise to continue to use both? Or should I just risk relying on only the intank one? I am going to brush it and clean it with gasoline...

Thanks for all the help everyone, I got a pre pic of the tank and will get one once completed and post them both to see how well this por15 kit does. I am also going to use a tiny bit of the metal ready and sealer on the metal part that holds on the gas tank gasket, as it had a bit of surface rust, but I took it apart, and it brushed right off with a wire brush, the por15 will work well on it i think.

EDIT: Quick question, rebuilding petcock, does it really matter which way the vacuum line part on back points? Mine points straight up towards tank, but it seems it would be more accessible if it pointed towards back of bike? I see some in pics this way, but just wondering.

Thanks

[drewpy]

should be up as the pipe goes up and under the tank to the right hand carb inlet.

drewps

[compCoder]

Thanks drewpy, I will reattach it pointing upwards then.

I have run into a problem with my tank cleaning kit. I am using duct tape to seal off the bung and petcock holes, but it seems the marine clean is dissolving the adhesive, when I went back, none of the tape is stuck onto the actual hole or directly on the petcock either, I do not know how I am going to be able to 'soak' on these sides now, and have no cork or anything similar to plug? Any suggestions? Electrical tape with duct tape over it maybe? It said to use duct tape, so this is a bit aggrivating that its chewing threw it and leaking on tank, i had to wipe it up...

[johnsnownw]

Thanks drewpy, I will reattach it pointing upwards then.

I have run into a problem with my tank cleaning kit. I am using duct tape to seal off the bung and petcock holes, but it seems the marine clean is dissolving the adhesive, when I went back, none of the tape is stuck onto the actual hole or directly on the petcock either, I do not know how I am going to be able to 'soak' on these sides now, and have no cork or anything similar to plug? Any suggestions? Electrical tape with duct tape over it maybe? It said to use duct tape, so this is a bit aggrivating that its chewing threw it and leaking on tank, i had to wipe it up...

I used stacked pieces of cardboard to put over the duct tape when the tank was in that position. That is, I put them under the petcock holes when the tank was upright, so that the surface it was sitting on kept the cardboard pushed up against the holes.

I thought you weren't supposed to leave that etch in for more than 2 hrs, I could be remembering incorrectly though.

[compCoder]

I used stacked pieces of cardboard to put over the duct tape when the tank was in that position. That is, I put them under the petcock holes when the tank was upright, so that the surface it was sitting on kept the cardboard pushed up against the holes.

I thought you weren't supposed to leave that etch in for more than 2 hrs, I could be remembering incorrectly though.

yes, you are correct on the etch, this is the cleaner step (step 1) the etch is step 2, I am going to do each position for like 20 mins, should be enough to get it all within 2 hours. I will go with your cardboard setup and set the tank down on the top and also on the bottom in order to keep them clogged, good idea, thanks. I can work around it for sides that don't leak through the holes.

Also, got the petcock rebuilt, did the blow test, was still leaking by doing it 'stock'. I just took it back apart, and bent the large washer thingy on back in order to put more pressure on the closed position, and also stretched the spring a bit, which was able to stop the air test when i plugged hole, and also seemed easy enough to open by pushing on valve through hole with screwdriver, hopefully the carb will still have enough pressure to open it up, im sure it will...also, the petcock was very hard to turn right after rebuild, i think due to the new black piece with 5 holes in it, i just wiped a very little bit of grease over it and the metal parts, as well as the seal on lever, and it made it a bit easier, but still harder, I think after it gets broke in it will be easier, seems the new part is just a tiny bit thicker, a few microns im sure, enough to make it harder though. the original 5 hole piece had a tear in it, and the vacuum seal o-ring, the tiny one, was also torn, so it was definitely source of the leak. Having a good time fixing so far, maybe I will be able to take off carbs today, though I will stop there and check the air cleaners and everything, that way I can disassemble and clean and reassemble carbs next weekend, hopefully be riding by next Sunday if things keep going smoothly as they are (even with cleaner problem)!!!!!

[johnsnownw]

yes, you are correct on the etch, this is the cleaner step (step 1) the etch is step 2, I am going to do each position for like 20 mins, should be enough to get it all within 2 hours. I will go with your cardboard setup and set the tank down on the top and also on the bottom in order to keep them clogged, good idea, thanks. I can work around it for sides that don't leak through the holes.

Also, got the petcock rebuilt, did the blow test, was still leaking by doing it 'stock'. I just took it back apart, and bent the large washer thingy on back in order to put more pressure on the closed position, and also stretched the spring a bit, which was able to stop the air test when i plugged hole, and also seemed easy enough to open by pushing on valve through hole with screwdriver, hopefully the carb will still have enough pressure to open it up, im sure it will...also, the petcock was very hard to turn right after rebuild, i think due to the new black piece with 5 holes in it, i just wiped a very little bit of grease over it and the metal parts, as well as the seal on lever, and it made it a bit easier, but still harder, I think after it gets broke in it will be easier, seems the new part is just a tiny bit thicker, a few microns im sure, enough to make it harder though. the original 5 hole piece had a tear in it, and the vacuum seal o-ring, the tiny one, was also torn, so it was definitely source of the leak. Having a good time fixing so far, maybe I will be able to take off carbs today, though I will stop there and check the air cleaners and everything, that way I can disassemble and clean and reassemble carbs next weekend, hopefully be riding by next Sunday if things keep going smoothly as they are (even with cleaner problem)!!!!!

Yeah, I had the same issue with my petcock rebuild. I oiled the lever and o-ring before I put it back together and it helped quite a bit. I also had to stretch out the spring, as the new bladder was tighter than the old one, it seems to stretch with use, so mine doesn't leak anymore.

I imagine you will be getting to the sealant (Step 3) later tonight, let me know when you do as I have a few suggestions that are not found in the instructions.

[compCoder]

Alright, I have one more side to soak in the marine clean after this one, so should be etching within the next 2 hours. I made a cardboard stopper like recommended and propped up one side of tank to put weight on it. It seems its not cleaning the rust but it is removing all the varnish for sure (it says the etch removes rust, I hope so, as tehre is still visible surface rust). So what are your tips on the sealant? its a small can, so looks like I will be rolling for a good bit before draining it back out, when i do, im going to quickly slap some onto the stopper that holds on the gas cap gasket as well. I have actually been taping the metal part into the bung so its getting cleaned and etched as well.

Got the carbs off without problem, sides out, and air filters out, everything. However, discovered two problems, first, the air filters are TRASHED big time, can't believe it but it seems to be original ones, and I was riding it like this

So looks like I will be going to the hardware store again to pick up some standard foam air filter, since it seems to work well with cutting and then wiring on. Can I use some insulated 20 gauge solid core copper wire, or do I need to also buy some bare galanized wire to hold it on? Doesn't seem the insulated wire would hurt anything...trying to save every penny, all these small things I need like tools, foam, etc are adding up.

Second, on the air filter holders, it looks like one side has the gasket that is in the holder that connects to the intake tubes faced out (curved side out), while the other is faced the other way (flat side out). They are a bit cracked, but still plyable, so I am not going to worry about replacing these yet, but will eventually. Looks like next week will now be carbs AND air filter rebuild...lol, tasks are adding up

EDIT: One more thing, in this condition, if i tape over the engine inlets, is it okay for me to push bike out to lawn, cover engine and some of frame (wires, coils, etc. will get a bit of overspray) with degreaser, then take a hose to it and hose everything off really well? there is thick layers of dirt on pretty much EVERYTHING and I want to get it cleaned up a bit, and also get the engine to a nice silver instead of a dull dirty brown...I just don't want to damage anything by spraying water over the entire innards of the bike.

[johnsnownw]

Yeah, the etch should remove the rust, but again I used electrolysis to remove the rust as well as the etch. So, I'm not sure if it will remove all the rust.

My airfilters looked much worse than yours, believe it or not. What most people do is to buy some filter foam and glue it to the filter. I have no experience with this, so I don't know about attaching the filter foam. I believe others have mentioned what they did on the forum, so you may be able to search for a thread that contains that information.

If I were you I wouldn't spray the bike down with water, too many people have issues after doing so. I would just try to wash it with soapy water out of a bucket and a rag.

As for the sealant. Make sure to stir the sealant well before putting it in the tank, as it's much thicker on the bottom of the can. Also make sure the tank is bone dry, I attached a hair dryer to the gas inlet for 2 hrs before putting the sealant in. Make sure to slosh the sealant around really well, just follow the instructions on that. However, after the allotted time, when you get to the pouring out step, give the tank one last roll around. Then wait 5 min before pouring the contents out. You should pour it out from the petcock holes, not the gas intake. After pouring, leave the tank to drain, then come back after 45 min, and shine flashlight all around the inside of the tank. If you see spots with a thinner coating, or spots that th sealant missed, there will still be enough sealant that didn't pour out, to hit these areas. There won't be much sealant in the there, but enough that you will see it move slowly to the area you want. I think this last step is the most important. After the last step make sure to use a q-tip to clean the petcock holes of sealant, especially the screw holes.

Also, do not use a hair dryer to dry the tank faster after the sealant step. It will only push the sealant away from whatever surface inside the tank the air happens to be hitting. Just let it air-dry.

Good luck.

[compCoder]

Thanks John, I will use all of those methods. Just finished with the cleaner, and man, what came out was gross, it did a good job, it even removed more rust than i thought a first, the liquid is a nasty brown. I drained it into a milk jug as it is HDPE as well and since I mixed with 1 part water, there is no way it would fit back into original bottle. I will drain the metal ready back into its own bottle, so I can take them to toxic waste disposal next weekend (don't trust this stuff in my drains or on road/lawn)...So, be done with metal ready in 2 hours, which will be ~10:40 my time, and start with the drying around 11 after some good rinsing and hopefully have the sealer in and ready to sit no later than 1:30am, as I got work at 7 in the morning...lol

EDIT: Got the blow dryer taped on now drying, been going for about a half hour, and not a drop is coming out, and its burning hot, so hot I can't hold it, going to give it about 50 more mins, let it cool down for a bit, then do the sealing...oh, also, the metal ready got out every last bit of rust in the tank, when i finished it and flushed it out, it was nice and clean silver on the inside, and no holes either, so thats good!!! Anyways, before sealing at least, this kit is great, it cleaned it up wonderfully considering how long it sat...

[compCoder]

Alright, tank sealing went fine and well, and here are the pics of the process.

First off, it was a REAL PAIN to get the danged petcock off, I ended up going and buying an impact driver up from home depot for ~$20. Here is the removed petcock and tank with my new impact driver next to it. According to the guy at lowes (who did not carry one) I will be using it a lot on fixing a bike, he said its a hobby of his too!!!

After that, was able to take apart the petcock and get it rebuilt. One thing I didn't realize is that the filter gauze that goes into the tank itself, is also the input hoses for ON and RESERVE, the higher and lower parts respectively. All pics of the petcocks I have seen showed some metal pipes inside, and mine was devoid, but after inspecting the gauze, i see how it works, and wonder if i should even use an external filter with it on...though i probably will after all the effort i take on cleaning my carbs (seems like a lot of work...lol).

Here are the busted pieces of it, it was quite a bigger mess inside than i thought it would be with the busted hole seal thing and also the o-ring that seals the flow, the main o-ring was also FLAT as could be, and it had RTV all over it, is this from the factory or some post owner work done on it i wonder??...anyways, its no wonder it was leaking

Next up is the rusty/varnished up tank, here is a before pic (best I can get inside with my camera and not taking a lot of time with it):

Since the marine clean has you mix 1:1 with water, I had to drain it into a milk jug instead of back to original bottle, and it was quite nasty what came out...I let sit on each position (6 positions i used to ensure coverage) for one hour a side, and shook it vigorously every change for about 2 minutes, here is what came out:

Then, after it was done i drained and rinsed it per the instructions, there was still a lot of rust left on the surfaces, but large pieces and all the 'slick' looking oily stuff was removed. So i moved on to the metal ready, let it sit on each side for 19 mins each (again, 6 positions), shaking vigorously for two minutes between sides, to make it right at two hours spent with the metal ready. I drained it back into the original bottle since it wasn't diluted and will be disposing of both chemicals at the waste dept. this weekend, since it doesn't seem right or safe to just put in trash...After the metal ready i soaked again rinsing with outside hose, then went inside to use the tub to rinse in warm water (best way I could think off...lol). Once good and rinsed I put the hair dryer duct taped on for probably 1.5 hours, moving whatever puddles were in there ever 5 mins or so, it was probably bone dry in just 45 mins, as it would burn my hands even picking it up, but i wanted to be sure. One strange thing I did notice after it was completely dried, is that the metal ready left this slightly powdery stuff all over the inside of tank (guess thats what the sealer sticks too). Anyways, even though I was worried about remaining rust from marine clean, the metal ready removed every visible trace that could be seen, the tank was shiny clean inside even before the sealer!!

Next I sealed the tank following the directions of the insert, the can of sealer, and used the tips from @johnsnow, though i didn't miss any areas the first time

Today is now the day it is safe to put fuel in again, though it will be at least this weekend if not longer, depending if i HAVE to order parts for my carbs...anyways, here is the finished tank, as of now, I highly recommend the por 15 kit, even though the sealer is messy and hard to mix, the final result looks great:

The top metal piece on the gas cap that goes into the bung was also quite rusty, so i went ahead and just brushed it all off with a harsh wire brush, then cleaned a bit with marine clean and cloth, and also treated shortly with metal ready, and went on to paint a bit of the sealer over the top layer of it as well for protection, took me like an extra 10 minutes and since it was already taken apart for the new gasket, i figured why the heck not. I also took apart the lock and scrubbed clean with gasoline and a toothbrush, same way I cleaned petcock, then went ahead and greased all the locking components/sliders with packing grease since they rub metal on metal...Here is the finished gas cap cleaned, with new gasket, and sealed plug (now rusty screws are very apparent...lol):

Which leaves the bike in this state for the time being (you can see why I want to get it cleaned up under there, especially the engine and crankcase...

Thanks for all the help so far, hopefully the carb rebuilds will go smoothly enough, and i can also get the air filters rebuilt this weekend while the carbs boil in lemon juice, once that is done and everything is attached back up, a quick oil and oil filter change, and I will be ready to fire it up, sync carbs, and ride

[johnsnownw]

Glad it all worked out well for you, it is indeed messy though!

[OllieB]

Great pics and write up. Congrats, you are doing a good job. Tank looks great! My son did that with my Dad's old 1976 Batavus moped gas tank.

Going to install new idle jet screw kit, choke rod rubbers and butterfly shaft seals on my carbs but MikesXS is out of stock on the butterfly shaft seals and I don't want to tear things down until I have all the parts. My son has a 1981 XS400 and we are helping each other.

[compCoder]

Well, was hoping to get some work done on it today, but the screws are again gorilla glued into every single hole. I had to use impact driver again to remove every screw for the top bracket, and now am on removing the bottom bracket, and the effort is futile, been out there banging on it for over an hour, and can't get one screw out...its madness...

EDIT: Alright, got it apart and all the jets out except the burried on u have to use a wire to extract, got the first carb boiling in lemon juice now, will get it out, rinse it with water and then with carb cleaner real good and reassemble, really, all internal parts looked fine and quite clean...so don't know how much benefit i get from this, but at least the outside parts are clean...and I will need some new screws for the brackets now as well, that was just ridiculous...again.

EDIT2: I should have ordered the basic rebuild kit already from mikesXS, as its the only part that need replacing by looking at it. Though I do have a question, on this rebuild kit:

http://www.mikesxs.net/products-36.html#products - Part #48-1408

On the float valve seat assembly that comes in this kit, mine looks a bit different, as it has a filter screen on it and the one pictured doesnt. Should I just use the one I have already or should I go ahead and replace it with the new one? Also, my float valve is in perfect shape, would it again be a good idea to use the new one over the old, even though mine is perfect? Also, does anyone have a link to the carb synchronizing method using the clear tube and ATF? Does it have to be ATF as well, as I don't ahve any, though i have a lot of brake fluid and other fluids I could use. It seems weird as both the vacuum rods coming out of the carb holders point towards each other facing up, so I guess i hook hose onto these, put a loop going downwards, put about 2" of fluid into the hose, fire it up (Petcock on prime so it gets gas) and move synchronization screw until the fluid sits in middle? I have the basic idea...but a link with detailed explanation or even pics would be great...

EDIT3: Question needing a quick answer, am I supposed to grease up/lubricate the slide that is connected to the black plastic thing? I think its called the slide? or do i let it touch metal to metal?

Thanks all

[johnsnownw]

Use the old screen. You shouldn't have to grease anything on the carb.

Can't help with the other questions

[drewpy]

EDIT2: I should have ordered the basic rebuild kit already from mikesXS, as its the only part that need replacing by looking at it. Though I do have a question, on this rebuild kit:

http://www.mikesxs.net/products-36.html#products - Part #48-1408

On the float valve seat assembly that comes in this kit, mine looks a bit different, as it has a filter screen on it and the one pictured doesnt. Should I just use the one I have already or should I go ahead and replace it with the new one?

I think I left mine off and I use an inline filter

Also, my float valve is in perfect shape, would it again be a good idea to use the new one over the old, even though mine is perfect?

I would use the new one with the new counterpart, mixing old with new is not good .

Also, does anyone have a link to the carb synchronizing method using the clear tube and ATF? Does it have to be ATF as well, as I don't ahve any, though i have a lot of brake fluid and other fluids I could use. It seems weird as both the vacuum rods coming out of the carb holders point towards each other facing up, so I guess i hook hose onto these, put a loop going downwards, put about 2" of fluid into the hose, fire it up (Petcock on prime so it gets gas) and move synchronization screw until the fluid sits in middle? I have the basic idea...but a link with detailed explanation or even pics would be great...

sounds right, i have something similar with a looped clear plastic and it uses a small ball bearing

EDIT3: Question needing a quick answer, am I supposed to grease up/lubricate the slide that is connected to the black plastic thing? I think its called the slide? or do i let it touch metal to metal?

Thanks all

Is the black plastic thing the diaphram? I put ACF50 on the diaphram to stop it cracking and keep the main jet piston clean. (slide!!)

drewps

some links

http://www.obairlann.net/reaper/motorcycle/manometer.html

http://www.therevcounter.com/uk-motorbike-forum/15892-diy-twin-carb-tb-balancer.html