Insurance, pay in lieu

[Vez]

Well as some of you know i was involved in a bit of a crash back in April where i was hit from the side going through a junction by an old lady in her car.

Her insurance company (which happens to be the same as mine AXA) denied she was liable and that it was my fault because i had ran a red light and hit her, which i didn't and so i stated that in my reply form etc. 

Since then her insurance people have sent an assessor to check the damage on my bike, that also makes it obvious she hit me with all the damage being on the right-hand side of my bike, and when he gave me a quote he asked me if i would accept a "pay in lieu" of x amount if i won the case, which i agreed to. 

So today i receive a phone call from my insurance people saying that a check had arrived from the 3rd party and it will be with me shortly, great i thought. I asked if this meant that they were finally admitting liability, to which i was told no, and also that if at a later date her insurance company decide the accident was my fault that i will have to pay it back   

As anybody here experienced this "pay in lieu" before?

And what will they do if i haven't got the money to pay back as i have spent it repairing my bike?

Any help advice/experience will be greatly appreciated.

Vez.

[Paulwhite]

iv never heard of it m8 but it sounds weird. they pay you a minimum amount to keep you happy for a while whilst they try and pin the accident on you then ask for it back if you dont win. sounds dodgy as fook m8 get yourself down to the solicitors for half an hour (should be free for the 1st 30 min!) and see what they have to say! but surely its a conflict of interest if its the same insurance company as your own?? think they might try and bounce the blame till one of you gives up trying to claim the money then they wont have to pay out. or try their hardest to pin it on you as its cheeper to fix a scratch and dent than it is a whole bike!

[Vez]

iv never heard of it m8 but it sounds weird. they pay you a minimum amount to keep you happy for a while whilst they try and pin the accident on you then ask for it back if you dont win. sounds dodgy as fook m8 get yourself down to the solicitors for half an hour (should be free for the 1st 30 min!) and see what they have to say! but surely its a conflict of interest if its the same insurance company as your own??  think they might try and bounce the blame till one of you gives up trying to claim the money then they wont have to pay out.

Thanks for the reply

I was going to see the local solicitor that dealt with my last crash tomorrow as i know he will put me straight, i thought i would ask here to see if anyone else had a similar experience.

The conflict of interests is entirely one sided, as the lady that hit me was fully comp ( im tpft) and has already been paid, so the only chance of saving some money for the insurance company is if they can pin it on me.

Vez.

[Paulwhite]

yeah its a new one to me iv never heard of an insurance company paying someone without finding out who is liable 1st. well did she give you her details? or did you give her yours?

just wonderd cause if she gave you her details then she accepted liability but if you swaped details then you both accept liability therefore ul have to fork out some dosh to get her car fixed as u only have tpft. or so i understand it ?

[Airhead]

Sorry Vez never heard of it, I thought once payments were made it was done and dusted, the thing is when you accept payment watch out they might take the hire bike back...just check this out.

[Vez]

Sorry Vez never heard of it, I thought once payments were made it was done and dusted, the thing is when you accept payment watch out they might take the hire bike back...just check this out.

No might about it OG, they wanted it today, with only a week of college left, i plead for an extension and am waiting to hear from them.

[Vez]

yeah its a new one to me   iv never heard of an insurance company paying someone without finding out who is liable 1st. well did she give you her details? or did you give her yours?

just wonderd cause if she gave you her details then she accepted liability but if you swaped details then you both accept liability therefore ul have to fork out some dosh to get her car fixed as u only have tpft. or so i understand it ?

It was a swap as the police made sure we did, and she admitted liability at the scene in front of the police. 

[2 Wheels]

It was a swap as the police made sure we did, and she admitted liability at the scene in front of the police.

If she admitted liability at the sceen then the coppers will have this in thee report. Get it off them and show it to your insurance. dont give it to them.

I was allways told to Never admit it was your fault (even if it was). Its up to the cops to deceide what happened and up to the insurance companies to battle it out after that. I herd of that pay in lieu before but dont understand it.

Ok so you axcepted a cheque, but that doesnt mean you have admitted it was your fault.

Seeing as it was not your fault, ---- under no surcomestances should you give in and admit that it was. That old lady could hammer you with hospotal bills and the like.

Go and see your old solisitor, tell him the story, ask him to be honest and ask where do you stand with it all now.

[Vez]

If she admitted liability at the sceen then the coppers will have this in thee report. Get it off them and show it to your insurance. dont give it to them.

I was allways told to Never admit it was your fault (even if it was). Its up to the cops to deceide what happened and up to the insurance companies to battle it out after that.

The police didn't make a written report apparently, but my insurers were supposedly chasing this up

And in this case the insurance companies have said they are deciding who is at fault, nice eh!

Vez.

[2 Wheels]

The police didn't make a written report apparently, but my insurers were supposedly chasing this up

And in this case the insurance companies have said they are deciding who is at fault, nice eh!

Vez.

God dam there a shower of tossers.

+ i edited my last post

[Vez]

If she admitted liability at the sceen then the coppers will have this in thee report. Get it off them and show it to your insurance. dont give it to them.

I was allways told to Never admit it was your fault (even if it was). Its up to the cops to deceide what happened and up to the insurance companies to battle it out after that. I herd of that pay in lieu before but dont understand it.

Ok so you axcepted a cheque, but that doesnt mean you have admitted it was your fault.

Seeing as it was not your fault, ---- under no surcomestances should you give in and admit that it was. That old lady could hammer you with hospotal bills and the like.

Go and see your old solisitor, tell him the story, ask him to be honest and ask where do you stand with it all now.

From what i have read tonight the "pay in lieu" is used when the vehicle owner wants to fix it themselves, which i do, as i don't trust anyone else to do it . It is mainly used for things like classic cars and bikes or where parts may be hard to source, due to vehicle being discontinued etc.

I think the solicitor option is the way forward just to make sure of my position.

There is noway i will be admitting it is my fault, as i would have a hard time explaining how i rode a bike sideways through a junction in order to cause the damage that is there

Thanks for your feedback mate,

Vez.

[pilninggas]

No might about it OG, they wanted it today, with only a week of college left, i plead for an extension and am waiting to hear from them.

there in lies-the-rub, i reckon. Hire bikes cost a lot maybe £120 a day. What they want to do is settle, so the bike hire stops and saves them money ultimately. years ago i was hit in an accident which wasn't my fault, i had a hire car. Anyway when i estimated the car was worth only £500 they sent an assessor out within 4 days and settled with 7 days. Far cheaper than the hire car (which incidentally was a 4x4, as i had insisted on a car with a towbar, apparently costing them £100 a day)

[Gas up - Let's Go!]

Personally, I would tell them to keep the Payment as you want this settled and don't want it to drag on. I'll tell you a story...

A few years ago I was driving to work, (I was in a RS 4x4 escort with plenty of go!) on a clear stretch of road I pulled out to take a line of traffic, road was clear ahead and I started to pass. I got past all but the second-from-the-front car as it pulled out, I was doing around 65mph with nowhere to go. our sides collided, not much damage, just mirrors and scapes. I, or rather we, were saved by the fact I had 4 wheel drive and didn't go all pearshaped whil eI was in the gutter! (I guess that's why these were such good rally cars). We stopped, he admitted liability and wer both headed off to work - funny we were both heading to the same place!

I got my car fixed on insurance and thought no more about it.

At renewal time, my NCD had dropped so I challenged it. There, on my details was an outstanding claim against me, he had claimed it was my fault!.

We both had the same insurance company, they said it was 'knock for knock'. I argued the case, they said no and thier descision was final. 30 minutes with a solicitor and £20 for a letter and they backed down faster than I could see. I got my NCD back and they shutup.

The moral, when it's the same company, it's in their interests to apply blame to both parties as each looses NCD and the insurance comapny comes out with the best outcome. However it is also a conflict of interests so thier assesment would never be seen as fair in court.

I would first of all tell them that you are seaking legal advice and until such time, you will not be accepting any monies from them, also tell them that you are seaking damages from the other driver. This should give them something to consider - you might find they back down straight away.

Oh, and for the record, a green light is NOT authority to go, it is the authority to PROCEED, IF IT IS SAFE TO DO SO, so by driving into the side of you, it was not safe to proceed. So if this is the line she wants to take then let her commit it to writing. Either way, without a witness to support here case it means nothing.

[Vez]

there in lies-the-rub, i reckon.  Hire bikes cost a lot maybe £120 a day.  What they want to do is settle, so the bike hire stops and saves them money ultimately.  years ago i was hit in an accident which wasn't my fault, i had a hire car.  Anyway when i estimated the car was worth only £500 they sent an assessor out within 4 days and settled with 7 days.  Far cheaper than the hire car (which incidentally was a 4x4, as i had insisted on a car with a towbar, apparently costing them £100 a day)

Thanks for the reply,

iirc they are being charged around £90 a day for the hire bike, which i think is alot considering i have hired a car for nearly a week for that in the late 90's.

Personally, I would tell them to keep the Payment as you want this settled and don't want it to drag on. I'll tell you a story...

A few years ago I was driving to work, (I was in a RS 4x4 escort with plenty of go!) on a clear stretch of road I pulled out to take a line of traffic, road was clear ahead and I started to pass. I got past all but the second-from-the-front car as it pulled out, I was doing around 65mph with nowhere to go.  our sides collided, not much damage, just mirrors and scapes.  I, or rather we, were saved by the fact I had 4 wheel drive and didn't go all pearshaped whil eI was in the gutter! (I guess that's why these were such good rally cars). We stopped, he admitted liability and wer both headed off to work - funny we were both heading to the same place!

I got my car fixed on insurance and thought no more about it.

At renewal time, my NCD had dropped so I challenged it. There, on my details was an outstanding claim against me, he had claimed it was my fault!.

We both had the same insurance company, they said it was 'knock for knock'.  I argued the case, they said no and thier descision was final.  30 minutes with a solicitor and £20 for a letter and they backed down faster than I could see. I got my NCD back and they shutup.

The moral, when it's the same company, it's in their interests to apply blame to both parties as each looses NCD and the insurance comapny comes out with the best outcome. However it is also a conflict of interests so thier assesment would never be seen as fair in court.  

I would first of all tell them that you are seaking legal advice and until such time, you will not be accepting any monies from them, also tell them that you are seaking damages from the other driver. This should give them something to consider - you might find they back down straight away.

Oh, and for the record, a green light is NOT authority to go, it is the authority to PROCEED, IF IT IS SAFE TO DO SO, so by driving into the side of you, it was not safe to proceed. So if this is the line she wants to take then let her commit it to writing. Either way, without a witness to support here case it means nothing.

Thanks for your reply.

As of yet i hadn't considered they might be blaming both of us, I've had minimal feedback from my insurance appointed solicitor so only know the 3rd party is denying liability. I will definitely mention the "knock for knock" when i see my local solicitor as i now think this may be the case. I also have a damages claim and a personal injuries claim that i haven't heard anything about either. I feel like a mushroom atm.

Vez.

[Ttaskmaster]

just wonderd cause if she gave you her details then she accepted liability but if you swaped details then you both accept liability

Nope.

It is a legal requirement to swap insurance details. The exchange does not imply liability in the slightest.

[Cynic]

One point to remember Vez. The wife's car was arse ended good and proper by a 7.5 tonner, the driver and the company envolved tried the standard bull to cover their arses but i knew the questions to catch him (tacograph records, ministry inspectin records etc)and i also knew that my missus who also works in the transport industry knows how to drive relative to HGV (even little ones ). We kept those particular gems till it got to court.

The hire car we were given 'as part of the insurance' is actually coverd under uninsured losses. The cost is paid by the losing party providing it is noted in the claim when you state you uninsured losses. If not the hire company will come after you for the cost and be within their rights to do so.

Appologies if you are fully aware of this but i was told expressly by my insurers at the time to be sure it was noted.

[Vez]

One point to remember Vez. The wife's car was arse ended good and proper by a 7.5 tonner, the driver and the company envolved tried the standard bull to cover their arses but i knew the questions to catch him (tacograph records, ministry inspectin records etc)and i also knew that my missus who also works in the transport industry knows how to drive relative to HGV (even little ones ). We kept those particular gems till it got to court.

The hire car we were given 'as part of the insurance' is actually coverd under uninsured losses. The cost is paid by the losing party providing it is noted in the claim when you state you uninsured losses. If not the hire company will come after you for the cost and be within their rights to do so.

Appologies if you are fully aware of this but i was told expressly by my insurers at the time to be sure it was noted.

Thanks for the reply Cynic,

I wasn't aware of this, although the hire company/people who are dealing with my claim have stated on more than one occasion that it is being added to the uninsured losses.

What has me worried now is what the letter said that accompanied the cheque i received today,

"This payment is purely to enable you to replace or repair your damaged motorcycle and does not constitute acceptance of liability from the third party insurers.The payment has been released as cash in lieu of repairs.

This payment has been made on the basis that your claim will be settled 100% in your favour, but should liability be split and you are found partly responsible, the enclosed cheque will obviously include and overpayment. In the event of that liability is settled on a split basis, and the enclosed cheque does represent an overpayment you will be obliged to reimburse any applicable sum to the third party insurer, or to ourselves, in the event that the third party insurers deduct the overpayment from any losses incurred by using our services, such as use of a credit hire motorcycle."

So until i can get to speak to my solicitor i wont be spending any money fixing my bike.

Although the hire company have said i can keep the hire bike until i finish college next week for free, which is good.

Vez.

[drewpy]

bloody minefield mate!

cover your arse and get professional advice

drewps

[Airhead]

[Vez]

http://www.sorrymate.com/

Cheers OG,

Signed up and waiting for a reply

Vez