Has anyone tested a XVS 650 Dragstar on a rolling road?

[LivetoRide]

Hi there, my name is Rich, I'm 18, and I've just discovered this forum, looks like I should have discovered this place a long time ago!

I currently own an XV Virago 125 and am taking my full licence at the end of June. After this I'm hoping to move onto a 650 Dragstar, and was planning to restrict this down to 33 BHP from the 39BHP that are in it's specifications. However, many people I've spoken to claim that the BHP as claimed in the specs of the bike, is measured at the crank, not at the wheels, and that the chance of a 650 that's been out of the factory pulling off 39BHP at the wheels is highly unlikely, and that it's far more likely to be under 33BHP. However, I'll still need proof of this to show to my insurance company.

As such, I've been advised to get one, and take it to a rolling road to test the output at the wheels, and then get proof of this from a printout and provide that to the insurance company. Has anyone got any views on whether this is a valid way of proving to the insurance companies the BHP output of the bike? Does anybody know whether BHP specifically has to be measured at a certain point on the bike? And finally, has anyone ever tested a 650 Dragstar on a rolling road before, and what was the BHP output?

Thanks for your help in advance!

Rich

[PeterC]

I never had to produce my certificate to an insurance company, they are only interested in the write off value of the bike I would suggest, plus a loading for your reckless age

You may have to produce it to the plod if stopped - and your rolling road data may be ok.

However there has been other debate on here about BHP at crank or wheels and I think it came to the conclusion that it was the engine output - i.e. crank that counted. I may be wrong - my wife says I usually am

[Ttaskmaster]

I believe that if you go get it done at a professional place, then they have to certify that it has been restricted to within legal limits. If it turns out to be lies, then the place that certified it are liable. Same as when a dealer does a PDI. If something is not right and the bike suffers a crash as a result, then whoever did the PDI will be bricking it!!

This works in part due to the fact that the average biker does not own the right sort of kit to legally certify the bike's BHP. It works the same with work done on your vehicle if it subsequently fails MOT.

In short, put the ball in someone else's court and slam the heck out of them if it goes wrong.

[clarke]

My restriction certificate states both that the bike is restricted to 33bhp but also a max speed of 87mph...

I'm not sure if the police would accept rolling road printouts as they could be done half throttle or be adjusted by any other means... don't forget the police can impound your bike for testing (which I'm sure would be a given if you hand them a rolling road printout) & their rolling road may say different to the one you test on...

Also if they give you a producer & you take them a rolling road printout & it'd be hard for you to prove that the bike was restricted at the time you were stopped. If they pursued charges you'd also be looking at driving without insurance as tecnically you'd be riding a bike you're not licenced for (which invalidates insurance + you have to notify the insurance company your bike is restricted)

As Ttaskmaster says "In short, put the ball in someone else's court and slam the heck out of them if it goes wrong"

[Shep639]

I know a Dyno operator who refuses to certify bikes as "Restricted to/less than 33bhp."

He is well aware that if he did so, he would be liable for any error, and there are too many factors beyond his control that could increase the bhp.

He will, however, supply and fit a restrictor kit complete with manufacturer's certificate.

Good luck.

Oh, btw, if the bike is written off while you are restricted to 33bhp, and your insurer finds a lack of restrictor parts in it, they may declare you uninsured.

[Ttaskmaster]

Besides, it's a fecking Cruiser. It's a two-wheeled tractor.

You'd have to be doing top whack (92mph) in a 30/50 zone for them to even think about pulling you!!

If you were a Sports Rider, now that's a different matter...

[LivetoRide]

Yeah, as a cruiser rider I'm not especially interested in speed, or the extra 5mph I'll be able to do if it isn't restricted, it's more in my interest to save the £250 quid to get it restricted! However after a few hours of phone calls and rooting around, I've managed to find the answer to this conundrum...

I started by ringing Falcon Insurance, who gave me the best quote (£277!). They said that they do require proof that it is 33BHP, but that this doesn't have to come from a garage, a Dynojet printout is valid, as long as it has the registration number written on it, is perfectly valid as proof. Admittedly this can't be the case for all insurers, but Falcon seemed to think it was ok.

I then rang the police, who checked with their supervisors, who basically came back with the answer: "We don't know". They said their inclination would be that it depends on the patrol that pulls you over (which as Ttaskmaster said, is unlikely on a cruiser unless your being a lunatic), and that they may refer to the manufacturers guidelines. However when posed with the question, well what if I produced a Dyno report stating it was 33BHP, they froze up and said they didn't know that much detail, and to ring the DVLA.

The DVLA refused to interpret the law, instead continuously stating over and over again that it had to be 33BHP, and that they didn't know too much detail, as suspected.

I then rang a localish garage with a Dyno, who anticipated what I was going to ask as soon as I told them I was 18 and wanted to ride a 650cc. They said they were happy to test it, and to provide me with a document stating that my bike was operating at 33BHP.

So my overall conclusion, is that unless you're acting like an idiot, the police aren't going to pull you anyway, and that even if they do, there's so much confusion between themselves and the DVLA that they aren't going to say no to an official garage report stating that it is in fact 33BHP, and they aren't going to impound your bike so that they can test it themselves unless they really want to get you off the road. The DVLA's answer seems to be that it has to be 33BHP, how exactly it arrives at that point seems to have nothing to do with them, so if my 650 is only producing 33BHP, even though it's meant to produce 39, they aren't going to complain. As for insurance, they require proof but some are less picky than others, and some garages will certify that your bike is producing 33BHP if it is. As for Shep639's comment about how too many other factors come into account for a Dyno to be an accurate an everlasting report, this is valid and I accept it, however, this also applies to restricted bikes, as I know a woman who once had a 883 Harley, restricted to 33BHP from 41BHP, which had then been staged 1'd, making the restriction pretty much void....

As for what I'll actually do when I get my 650, I don't know, but I'm not sure if I see the point in spending £250 on getting my bike restricted, when it'll probably take it well below 33BHP due to wear n' tear on the engine, chain etc anyway - the last thing I want to do is create the biggest 125 the world has ever seen =P

Thanks for all your help, and any discussion and comments appreciated.

[Ttaskmaster]

As for what I'll actually do when I get my 650, I don't know, but I'm not sure if I see the point in spending £250 on getting my bike restricted, when it'll probably take it well below 33BHP due to wear n' tear on the engine, chain etc anyway - the last thing I want to do is create the biggest 125 the world has ever seen =P

I want a 125 Hayabusa.

OK, here's rub... The law says your bike must be RESTRICTED to 33BHP.

It does not say it must only be capable of, or has been ragged and can now only manage... It must be RESTRICTED.

Unless you actually have a restrictor installed (on a bike 'technically' capable of more than 33), then you are breaking the law.

That's how it stands.

That means it must have an additional physical limitation that prevents it from outputting more than 33BHP.

Otherwise you could get it tested, proven at 33 and then retune it to the full 40.

Besides, the 650 is more than capable, even at 33.

Mine is unrestricted and it still takes a bit of work to out-ride a 33er. Trust me - A restrictor doesn't slow you down much at all.

Also - The 650 drag is shaft-driven, not chain

[LivetoRide]

That's helpful =) where did you get that information from?

And yeah, I'm not doubting that the 650 can operate easily at 33, and the reduction of 5mph isn't an issue for me as I'm not looking for speed, just looking into whether it's necessary to spend the £250 on a garage adding a washer to my bike...

And yes, very good point... One of the reasons I decided I wanted a 650 Dragstar is because it was shaft driven, not chain.... Duh me...

[Ttaskmaster]

That's helpful =) where did you get that information from?

It's all covered at CBT and throughout secondary training before you do your test.

It's likely to be elsewhere as well.

So yeah, if the standard version does more than 33, the bike has to be limited.

Doesn't matter if the one you have can only manage 17.

£250 sounds a lot.

Last I heard, our local bike centre does it for £148.

[PeterC]

When I bought my 650 I got the restrictor fitted free. Do a bit of haggling

[clarke]

When I bought my 650 I got the restrictor fitted free. Do a bit of haggling

Me too on my 1300, and I got them write on my order form that they'd remove it for free at the service when my restriction was up. At the end of the day you're spending a few ££££ so if they want the sale...

(I'm baffled anyone pays for a restriction kit)

[Paulwhite]

yeah haggle ur ass off and ul b amazed to what you can get away with, do it the last week in the month and ul find there gettin desperate to meet their quota.

lol remembered when i used this trick to buy my 125 dragster, i got away with murder!

[LivetoRide]

Yeah if I buy it from a dealership then I'll get them to do it for free, I can see how that's reasonable. I was thinking of buying privately, but buying from a dealership could work out cheaper.