535 does not start; battery?

[pjvenda]

Hi everyone,

My virago 535 does not start. - I can't ride!!!

On to the facts. One beautiful day it did not start. The starer cranked the engine a few (1 or 2) times and then stopped. Now it just does half-turns and the neutral light fades. Seems obvious: it's the battery.

So I jump-started it with another bike and later with my car. Started perfectly both times.

So I've ordered an intelligent charger which I'm waiting for for the last two weeks. Meanwhile I took off the battery to find it completely dry - no (liquid) electrolite in there [t's an yumicron YB12AL-A2]. Measuring the beast with no load yields 13.0V.

Question: Is 13V indicative of a good battery? or a bad battery? Or is it irrelevant because there's no load in it?

Question: Should I top it up with distilled/de-ionised water? The battery case has got some electrolite level lines (max and min) painted outside, but I read somewhere that this battery has one of those "absorving" plates that soak up the acid mix to prevent spilling... I'm confused!

To make matters worse, this weekend is supposed to be sunny, my bike does not run and I'm off to Snowdonia - to the rain. Argh!

Thanks in advance,

Pedro.

[Ttaskmaster]

I haven't got a feckin' clue...

13V sounds OK.

Personally, I'd check all the connections haven't come loose.

Couple of times I've done some work that required disconnecting the battery or some lead or other and not securely connected 'em back up again.

[fosdyke]

Hi everyone,

My virago 535 does not start. - I can't ride!!!

On to the facts. One beautiful day it did not start. The starer cranked the engine a few (1 or 2) times and then stopped. Now it just does half-turns and the neutral light fades. Seems obvious: it's the battery.

So I jump-started it with another bike and later with my car. Started perfectly both times.

So I've ordered an intelligent charger which I'm waiting for for the last two weeks. Meanwhile I took off the battery to find it completely dry - no (liquid) electrolite in there [t's an yumicron YB12AL-A2]. Measuring the beast with no load yields 13.0V.

Question: Is 13V indicative of a good battery? or a bad battery? Or is it irrelevant because there's no load in it?

Question: Should I top it up with distilled/de-ionised water? The battery case has got some electrolite level lines (max and min) painted outside, but I read somewhere that this battery has one of those "absorving" plates that soak up the acid mix to prevent spilling... I'm confused!

To make matters worse, this weekend is supposed to be sunny, my bike does not run and I'm off to Snowdonia - to the rain. Argh!

Thanks in advance,

Pedro.

Pedro - certainly sounds like the battery although these bikes do have problems with the starter clutches as well. However the jump start would seem to indicate not.

If you have no electrolyte in it then you would need to top up with sulphuric acid which may be difficult to get hold of - and DANGEROUS to handle - don't use it without taking appropriate precautions! However that being said I have never successfully been able to ressurect a battery that has gone dry - so you may be better off, given the forecast for the weekend, splashing out £25 on a new one.

Hope you get it sorted.

Enjoy the weekend

[pjvenda]

@Ttaskmaster: Connections seem OK. I've undone them, they were/are not corroded and look shiny in general. Still I gave them a little cleaning with contact cleaner, just to be sure.

@fosdyke: Thanks dude, I will eventually buy one. Heck I would have already if halfords would sell more than "pink accessories" and snow chains...

Thanks for the advice people. But before buying a new battery, I would like to know how to diagnose this one. If this happens again, I will know what to do. And because my charger will come next year or later, when I really won't need it, all I've left is to think about what I can do :]

So anyone knows if I should top up this particular model of battery with de-ionised water?

Also, what is the tension that should be measured at the battery terminals when the bike is running? I measured mine at about 18V at idle and a little less (17.25V) when revving... sounds good?

Cheers,

Pedro.

[fosdyke]

@Ttaskmaster: Connections seem OK. I've undone them, they were/are not corroded and look shiny in general. Still I gave them a little cleaning with contact cleaner, just to be sure.

@fosdyke: Thanks dude, I will eventually buy one. Heck I would have already if halfords would sell more than "pink accessories" and snow chains...

Thanks for the advice people. But before buying a new battery, I would like to know how to diagnose this one. If this happens again, I will know what to do. And because my charger will come next year or later, when I really won't need it, all I've left is to think about what I can do :]

So anyone knows if I should top up this particular model of battery with de-ionised water?

Also, what is the tension that should be measured at the battery terminals when the bike is running? I measured mine at about 18V at idle and a little less (17.25V) when revving... sounds good?

Cheers,

Pedro.

You have nothing to lose by topping up with de-ionized - if it's fecked it's fecked you aren't goin to make it worse!

I would expect about 14-15v on charge so 17/18v sounds ok - top it up and give it a blast, if you can jump it do that to get it started then take it for a long ride with the lights off to minimize drain - then see if it starts in the morning.

Good luck

[yoda]

@Ttaskmaster: Connections seem OK. I've undone them, they were/are not corroded and look shiny in general. Still I gave them a little cleaning with contact cleaner, just to be sure.

@fosdyke: Thanks dude, I will eventually buy one. Heck I would have already if halfords would sell more than "pink accessories" and snow chains...

Thanks for the advice people. But before buying a new battery, I would like to know how to diagnose this one. If this happens again, I will know what to do. And because my charger will come next year or later, when I really won't need it, all I've left is to think about what I can do :]

So anyone knows if I should top up this particular model of battery with de-ionised water?

Also, what is the tension that should be measured at the battery terminals when the bike is running? I measured mine at about 18V at idle and a little less (17.25V) when revving... sounds good?

Cheers,

Pedro.

No does not sound good but if the battery is dry, it's meaningless.

The battery is shot so put a new one in. The reason its shot might be that the voltage to it is too high and boiled it.

I would expect to see about 13v at idle and not more that 18v above idle.

[pjvenda]

Thanks again for the replies.

Short version: Topped-up with "battery water", tried again, and it worked! The bike fired up cold at first attempt.

Longer version:

I've taken the battery off again, verified that it was bone-dry (did not even drip when turned upside-down) and topped it up with "battery water" which I expect to be distilled and de-ionised.

Anyway, the max/min markings on the outside are utterly useless because the plastic is completely opaque - without looking through the (tiny) holes, you have no idea of how full or empty it is. This also means that without taking it off the bike, it is very hard to check the fluid level.

On with it: Put it back and the bike started cold at first attempt.

Before that, I measured voltages again:

Unloaded, off the bike: ~12.8V

Unloaded (ign off) but plugged to the bike: 12.76V

Loaded (ign on, lights off, bike off): 12.56V

After topping up:

Unloaded, off the bike: ~12.3V

Unloaded (ign off), plugged to the bike: ~12.3V

Loaded (ign on, lights off, bike off): 12.1V

Little difference, I know. But the lack of fluid was literally stopping the current from flowing.

Morale of the story (lessons learnt):

• Yuasa Yumicron YB12AL-A2 and similar batteries [with lids and spill hose - not sealed] need the proper fluid level to work well;
  
• Don't rely on outer markings to check your fluid level. In my case the plastic was so opaque (I don't know how old the battery is) that it is impossible to see the top-of-fluid line from the outside. It is necessary to peek through the little holes on top, which means the battery should come off for this purpose. (It should be off the bike anyway if it needs topping-up);
  
• When putting the battery back on the bike, be sure to check that the spill hose is attached, not bent nor obstructed by squeezing and routed directly to the floor. The hose will have to go through a couple of tight places where there are plenty of things around to trap and squeeze it. Mine dripped a lot at the first run immediately after topping up. This was because I had to fill it over the MAX line. You don't want that mix around your plastics and inside the bike where it will dry and corrode and/or eat stuff;
  

Thanks to all that replied. I will try and re-check voltages with the bike running at idle and with a few revs. Also I will get the smart charger and keep an eye on it. Soon I will take it off again to re-check fluid levels.

Cheers,

Pedro.

[yoda]

The battery is shot, buy another.

[pjvenda]

The battery is shot, buy another.

Not saying I won't. Just saying, for the record, that I've sorted my situation by adding water to the battery, and that I found no mention by googling that this battery should need topping-up (I did find the opposite, though) but it does.

Cheers, Pedro.

[FLYIN BRIAN]

I'd be concerned over the voltage regulator. Over 14V-15V area is too high. You just saw the result of too much voltage, battery boiled dry. It may be the innocent victim of fried regulator, or bad ground (earth) connection.

OTOH, how old is the battery, and is it always stored in warm areas (removed from bike for long term storage). It may have reached the end of it's service life and shorted a cell.

Don't go too far from home till you sort it out.

EDIT***

No battery will hold much charge once the top of the plates are exposed. I've topped them up on occasion with bottled water.

[pjvenda]

I'd be concerned over the voltage regulator. Over 14V-15V area is too high. You just saw the result of too much voltage, battery boiled dry. It may be the innocent victim of fried regulator, or bad ground (earth) connection.

Ugh, didn't like to hear that! But I will measure it again as soon as I can!

OTOH, how old is the battery, and is it always stored in warm areas (removed from bike for long term storage). It may have reached the end of it's service life and shorted a cell.

May very well be the case. I bought it bike this February, and I know for a fact (MOT certificates) that it did only 400 miles over a period of two years... The fact is I have no idea of how old the battery or if there was any issue with the electrical system before I bought it. If there was, it is a bit weird that it took 6 months to reveal itself... But the battery was dry and that may have been provoked by something else.

Good suggestions, keep'em coming!

Cheers,

Pedro.

[PeterC]

it is not a spill pipe that is attached to the battery - and no fluid should come out of it.

It is a gas vent pipe - to vent the hydrogen that bubbles off the plates when the battery is charging.

[pjvenda]

it is not a spill pipe that is attached to the battery - and no fluid should come out of it.

It is a gas vent pipe - to vent the hydrogen that bubbles off the plates when the battery is charging.

Makes sense. Note taken.

I've measured the voltages and I am not sure if it looks good... maybe the reg/rec is not very good?

So just after starting it measures 13.5-14V at idle with the lights on. If I turn off the lights it jumps to 16-17V.

Over idle, the lights make no difference - voltage is 16-17V (stabilises at 16.5V).

After it warmed up a bit, idle voltage was more on the 15.5-16V range with lights on and 16.5V with lights off.

It seems that the reg/rec is regulating at 16.5V. Is this excessive?

Meanwhile the bike has been starting and running fine!

Cheers,

Pedro.

p.s.: is it just me or is the forum a bit sluggish now?

[Joshua2]

p.s.: is it just me or is the forum a bit sluggish now?

Perhaps its got a flat battery!

For piece of mind and the small outlay I wouldn't risk it. I would buy another good quality battery.

ATB

J

[CaptainK]

The battery is the heart of your bike. If it will not maintain a full charge, even if it cranks the motor and sounds fine,it will not fire the coils to start. You may think because the lights are working that you have a good battery but if it isn't fully charged or has a weak cell, you had just as well get to the parts house after you jump start it.