junker Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 First i want to say that i really appreciate all the help i have gotten from this forum over the past couple of years. You guys rock, and you basically got my vintage bike on the road for me! I try to help out with advice for others when i can, and i hope it makes a difference for those people. My 1988 FZ600 has had issues with the wiring for as long as i can remember but i finally got the courage to tear apart the wiring harness and using a wiring diagram thanks to Clymer, i tied up all loose ends with the electricals! - so i thought. I figured out the main problem with the starter being super slow and stopping and squealing is the battery not being juiced enough. I had not considered this because it was a brand new battery, charged with a automatic float charger specifically for motorcycles. However it is drained, but not while the bike is off, hmmmmmm... I found something very interesting while riding it again. As i went to turn, cars kept honking or acting weird, like they were confused, and speeding past me. I then realized my blinkers were barley working at all, at any RPM below 3,000!!! After revving past that, they were brighter than hell, and blinking really fast too, so the blinking speed changed with my RPM... ? Also now aware of this, i put on my high beams and looked at the dash lights, and the gauge lights, they dimmed at anything below 3,000RPM again!!! I got it home and hooked the battery up to my volt meter, the battery was charging at any RPM above..... you guessed it: 3,000-3,500RPM! Below that, the voltages actually began decreasing, leading me to believe the bike was running off the battery! Is my Generator bad? Is this somewhat Common? Does Anyone Know where to get a stator rebuild kit for an '88 FZ600??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 First i want to say that i really appreciate all the help i have gotten from this forum over the past couple of years. You guys rock, and you basically got my vintage bike on the road for me! I try to help out with advice for others when i can, and i hope it makes a difference for those people. My 1988 FZ600 has had issues with the wiring for as long as i can remember but i finally got the courage to tear apart the wiring harness and using a wiring diagram thanks to Clymer, i tied up all loose ends with the electricals! - so i thought. I figured out the main problem with the starter being super slow and stopping and squealing is the battery not being juiced enough. I had not considered this because it was a brand new battery, charged with a automatic float charger specifically for motorcycles. However it is drained, but not while the bike is off, hmmmmmm... I found something very interesting while riding it again. As i went to turn, cars kept honking or acting weird, like they were confused, and speeding past me. I then realized my blinkers were barley working at all, at any RPM below 3,000!!! After revving past that, they were brighter than hell, and blinking really fast too, so the blinking speed changed with my RPM... ? Also now aware of this, i put on my high beams and looked at the dash lights, and the gauge lights, they dimmed at anything below 3,000RPM again!!! I got it home and hooked the battery up to my volt meter, the battery was charging at any RPM above..... you guessed it: 3,000-3,500RPM! Below that, the voltages actually began decreasing, leading me to believe the bike was running off the battery! Is my Generator bad? Is this somewhat Common? Does Anyone Know where to get a stator rebuild kit for an '88 FZ600??? Hi, you could test geni output buy testing the voltage across the white wires from the geni .. but as you are getting a charge it may be worth checking out the volt reg & rectifier first .... As you have a book of words (clymer) the techniques will be explained there. Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hi, you could test geni output buy testing the voltage across the white wires from the geni .. but as you are getting a charge it may be worth checking out the volt reg & rectifier first .... As you have a book of words (clymer) the techniques will be explained there. Regards Jim Thank you. Did You Know there is a post in this forum regarding you? You are really cool, i have to agree! Thanks for the guidance on where to look, i will test my generator and rec/reg unit today. Clymer says the resistance between any two wires from the generator should be .5-.6 ohms. I remember them being badly corroded and nasty looking, i bet that is the problem or is contributing to it in a large way. I should have thought of it before, but you jogged my memory - thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Thank you. Did You Know there is a post in this forum regarding you? You are really cool, i have to agree! Thanks for the guidance on where to look, i will test my generator and rec/reg unit today. Clymer says the resistance between any two wires from the generator should be .5-.6 ohms. I remember them being badly corroded and nasty looking, i bet that is the problem or is contributing to it in a large way. I should have thought of it before, but you jogged my memory - thanks again! Hi you'll make me blush !!!! but hey is that not what a forum is all about .... helping each other !!! Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 i never got to check my components today, as i forgot about an appointment i made before work. Anyway, i started wondering; would corroded terminals really do that? Making there be almost no charge at low RPMs and Super charge at High RPMs? I am going to replace the plug no matter, but i was just honestly wondering. I am good with solid, metal, exploding gas things, and electrical issues always puzzle me... I am trying to broaden my knowledge on the subject. From my current understanding, i would think that if there is a current flow at one set of conditions, and the corrosion issue is a constant, there should be current flow with another set of conditions that are supposed to function, regardless of the constant corrosive effect. Basically my question is: -Does the bad effects of nasty connectors get exponentially worse as a voltage decreases? Also, what would cause smoke to come out of the crankcase breather. I think my bike was at one point a California, USA model, with all the emissions systems and tubes, wires, and mechanisms that seem to have been very cleverly removed and turned into other things by a previous owner, like the breather! instead of going into the air box (which doesn't exist anymore) it is just a tube and a breather filter at the end. Only problem with it is that it smokes. A lot after riding or revving high for long periods, not so much at idle or below 5k RPM. The oil level is ok according to the sight-glass on the clutch cover. Water Vapor would have boiled out after one ride right? It does this every time i ride it and come to a stop, it smells like burning oil, but there is no liquid oil coming out of the breather or smoke from the exhaust, just a chimney for a breather... The Bike Is Awesome At The High End, -and if i don't have to ever pass a smog inspection! my brain hurts... bedtime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 i never got to check my components today, as i forgot about an appointment i made before work. Anyway, i started wondering; would corroded terminals really do that? Making there be almost no charge at low RPMs and Super charge at High RPMs? I am going to replace the plug no matter, but i was just honestly wondering. I am good with solid, metal, exploding gas things, and electrical issues always puzzle me... I am trying to broaden my knowledge on the subject. From my current understanding, i would think that if there is a current flow at one set of conditions, and the corrosion issue is a constant, there should be current flow with another set of conditions that are supposed to function, regardless of the constant corrosive effect. Basically my question is: -Does the bad effects of nasty connectors get exponentially worse as a voltage decreases? Also, what would cause smoke to come out of the crankcase breather. I think my bike was at one point a California, USA model, with all the emissions systems and tubes, wires, and mechanisms that seem to have been very cleverly removed and turned into other things by a previous owner, like the breather! instead of going into the air box (which doesn't exist anymore) it is just a tube and a breather filter at the end. Only problem with it is that it smokes. A lot after riding or revving high for long periods, not so much at idle or below 5k RPM. The oil level is ok according to the sight-glass on the clutch cover. Water Vapor would have boiled out after one ride right? It does this every time i ride it and come to a stop, it smells like burning oil, but there is no liquid oil coming out of the breather or smoke from the exhaust, just a chimney for a breather... The Bike Is Awesome At The High End, -and if i don't have to ever pass a smog inspection! my brain hurts... bedtime Hi, dont forget to check the VR/Rec first as the problem will be more likley in that area rather than the geni I guess the breather you mention is the one on top of the crankcase behind the geni that originally connected to the airbox ? If this one is giving out oil fumes & smoke there is a big chance you have problems with the top end of the engine I would guess you need to do a Wet and Dry compression test in order to work out (if any) is at fault then work from there !!! Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Basically my question is: -Does the bad effects of nasty connectors get exponentially worse as a voltage decreases? The Bike Is Awesome At The High End, -and if i don't have to ever pass a smog inspection! my brain hurts... bedtime Hi I missed this one !! the answer is no the crudie connections will cause no end of odd problems i.e over charging & under charging it may depend on where the connectors are as to which problem you get ... but I'm sure you can sort this out !! Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 ok, now Clymer gives this huge step-by-step oin how to test the geni, and in the following section titled ; "Regulator and Rectifier" it bluntly says that Yamaha provides no info on how to test this component. Do You know how to test it? What should the voltages and amperes be? I feel that you are right, and i have found a replacement already, Rick's Motorsports Aftermarket Parts... So yea if you know how to check it, let me know. I have touched it with the back of my hand and it never feels overly hot, at all. That's about all i know on the rec/reg. Thanks in advance, Junk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 ok, now Clymer gives this huge step-by-step oin how to test the geni, and in the following section titled ; "Regulator and Rectifier" it bluntly says that Yamaha provides no info on how to test this component. Do You know how to test it? What should the voltages and amperes be? I feel that you are right, and i have found a replacement already, Rick's Motorsports Aftermarket Parts... So yea if you know how to check it, let me know. I have touched it with the back of my hand and it never feels overly hot, at all. That's about all i know on the rec/reg. Thanks in advance, Junk Hi what is fitted ? a finned box with 3 white wires , a red & a black and also a box with greens/blacks & stuff attached? if you have the triple white red & black box that is easy to be tested via checking the resistance between the whites (each other) and the red & black .. it shoud show resistance in one direction only if this is ok then repalce the VR .... if the unit is combined without $2000 worth of kit you will need to just try a sub one !! Regards Jim P.S when I get a few more seconds I'll post the correct test for that unit ... just give me a few secs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 i have one component, the rectifier & regulator in one, bolts onto side of battery box. There is white wires and also red and greens coming from this. what should the resistance Ohms be, do you know? even a range, like "they should be below..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 i have one component, the rectifier & regulator in one, bolts onto side of battery box. There is white wires and also red and greens coming from this. what should the resistance Ohms be, do you know? even a range, like "they should be below..." Hi Junk, oh err the single unit does mean (without the kit to test it) you will have to do a replacement test and check out the battery voltage ... but I would guess someone in your locale has bought the correct test equipment ... but in saying that I couldnt/wouldnt afford it ! Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 well i tested the connector before reading your last post (figured out there is infinite resistance between all wires...), anyway i had a hell of a time getting the connector apart... turns out the black wire connector had actually gotten so hot that it melted the surrounding plastic of the connector and basically spot welded the connectors together. I believe this black is connected to a ground, and a really hot ground usually means that there is too much resistance for that wire, right??? If i got a new rec/reg unit, what could be the harm right? that old one has been on there since 1988 probably, and the electricals could use an upgrade. My only concern is buying this fairly expensive part and a different faulty part blowing it to hell. Is this possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 well i tested the connector before reading your last post (figured out there is infinite resistance between all wires...), anyway i had a hell of a time getting the connector apart... turns out the black wire connector had actually gotten so hot that it melted the surrounding plastic of the connector and basically spot welded the connectors together. I believe this black is connected to a ground, and a really hot ground usually means that there is too much resistance for that wire, right??? If i got a new rec/reg unit, what could be the harm right? that old one has been on there since 1988 probably, and the electricals could use an upgrade. My only concern is buying this fairly expensive part and a different faulty part blowing it to hell. Is this possible? Hi, that is well possible !!! it would be good to work out where the short/bad ground is before fitting the new part. check the output from the genni Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Hi, that is well possible !!! it would be good to work out where the short/bad ground is before fitting the new part. check the output from the genni Regards Jim I know where the issue is. There is a bare, black insulated wire dangling in the vicinity. It seems someone had stripped it and forgot to finish connecting it. I am going to put in a slide connect and a ring terminal at the end and ground it to the bolt that the battery ground goes to. This is ok right, won't mess with the battery? SO... I have tuned my carburetors! Finally! I used a vacuum pressure gauge. I didn't buy the $100+ Carb-tune because honestly i don't see the point in buying an expensive tool i will only use very rarely. Also, there is very few bike shops here in the catskills, and the ones that do exist are for harleys only... they really hate "rice-burners" anyway, i played with the adjusters until i got all of the carbs to read the same vacuum pressure range (bounces from 0-5 Hg) and instead of sounding like a new engine, my baby sounds like a cat that needs to get a hairball out. Honestly it seemed better when it was out of balance! The Idle is super-rough, it spits and sputters when i touch the throttle, and response sucks... The tach is all over the place at a steady throttle opening too! what did i do wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I know where the issue is. There is a bare, black insulated wire dangling in the vicinity. It seems someone had stripped it and forgot to finish connecting it. I am going to put in a slide connect and a ring terminal at the end and ground it to the bolt that the battery ground goes to. This is ok right, won't mess with the battery? SO... I have tuned my carburetors! Finally! I used a vacuum pressure gauge. I didn't buy the $100+ Carb-tune because honestly i don't see the point in buying an expensive tool i will only use very rarely. Also, there is very few bike shops here in the catskills, and the ones that do exist are for harleys only... they really hate "rice-burners" anyway, i played with the adjusters until i got all of the carbs to read the same vacuum pressure range (bounces from 0-5 Hg) and instead of sounding like a new engine, my baby sounds like a cat that needs to get a hairball out. Honestly it seemed better when it was out of balance! The Idle is super-rough, it spits and sputters when i touch the throttle, and response sucks... The tach is all over the place at a steady throttle opening too! what did i do wrong? Hi, thats now well out of balance you should have used the correct tools ... i would guess it will take $100 or more to sort it out ... and the black wire going to the battery earth wont cause a problem ! Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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