CPC

[JimR]

The European Union published a Directive in July 2003 that will require all category C and D licence holders to take part in 35 hours retraining every five years, in order to keep their entitlement to drive professionally. The Directive also gives details of a new initial training regime that new drivers must go through before they can drive professionally for the first time. This will have a major impact on driver testing, as the existing driving tests will be modified and lengthened to adapt to these requirements. The Directive will come into force across all EU Member States in 2008 for bus drivers, and 2009 for lorry drivers.

The legislation for these requirements will be introduced into Northern Ireland during 2006. The legislation will state the minimum testing requirements for new drivers, as well as the process for obtaining periodic training. It will also include the deadlines by which existing drivers will have had to complete their first set of retraining.

Hi I know the above statment applies to lorries & buses but I can see the European Union (if this works ok) passing the CPC down to C1,B & A catogories. Who fancies doing 35 hours training per 5 years in order to keep their licence, with regard to the C1 licence (most had these bundled with the B licence in the last centuary), if you wanted to hire a 7½ tonner would you need this CPC ? I'm not sure as I hold the lorry licence my firm are paying for my cpc but looking at the costs, if this filters down to other catagories, it may mean people who drive/ride 'dangerous' vehicles are subject to the same legislation.

Regards Jim

[Gas up - Let's Go!]

Hi I know the above statment applies to lorries & buses but I can see the European Union (if this works ok) passing the CPC down to C1,B & A catogories. Who fancies doing 35 hours training per 5 years in order to keep their licence,

From the perspective of someone who maybe rides with the right aptitude, consideration and attitude this would appear to be a bit harsh, but,,,,

You see thread time after time about people not looking, taking the wrong lines, dieing! so from this perspective It's a bloody brilliant idea!

The only flaw is it appears to be classroom/CBT (Computer Based Training) and doesn't appear to have a pass/fail test or assesment at the end. So the idiots with the wrong attitude, aptitude and consideration will go and do thier 'time' come out and carry on regardless. Even for busses/trunks it's a waste of time unless there is a some way of geting those who fail to reach the required standard off the roads.

Personally, I think a re-test to renew your licence is a bloody great idea (so that's every 10 years), Not for every catagory, but the highest catagory you have maybe ?? Anything that helps to get the tw@s off the road is a good thing I say.

Off course, it's always the folk that claim they don't need training that really do need it! (those who do take on extra training off course already know that the don't know everyhting)

[JimR]

From the perspective of someone who maybe rides with the right aptitude, consideration and attitude this would appear to be a bit harsh, but,,,,

You see thread time after time about people not looking, taking the wrong lines, dieing! so from this perspective It's a bloody brilliant idea!

The only flaw is it appears to be classroom/CBT (Computer Based Training) and doesn't appear to have a pass/fail test or assesment at the end. So the idiots with the wrong attitude, aptitude and consideration will go and do thier 'time' come out and carry on regardless. Even for busses/trunks it's a waste of time unless there is a some way of geting those who fail to reach the required standard off the roads.

Personally, I think a re-test to renew your licence is a bloody great idea (so that's every 10 years), Not for every catagory, but the highest catagory you have maybe ?? Anything that helps to get the tw@s off the road is a good thing I say.

Hi

The training is done over a five year period and you have to do them (35) hours but I would guess a motorcyclist/car drivers would see this as an incumberance and another stealth tax where as in the real world it may reduce the amount of boy racers/old Granies .. to date the class C licence is renewed at 45 then every 5 years there after and of top of that the cpc has a 5 year life span and needs to be addressed within the time frame. so therefore I would guess people who have machines capable of silly speeds should have the same government intervention as class C drivers

Regards Jim

[Rich_B]

Doubt it will concern bikers. Most Bikers who get it wrong, sad to say, just wipe themselves out, whereas a wagon can easily squash a family of four, even sadder I suppose. Good message overall though - training improves skill and decreases accidents.

[Wombledog]

The driver CPC for buses started last September and for lorries it is this September (new drivers only) existing drivers have 5 years to complete the training from the above dates. however it is a vocational requirement, therefore you can pass a HGV test and if all you do is drive your own horsebox, you do not need the cpc,

Regards

WD

[JimR]

The driver CPC for buses started last September and for lorries it is this September (new drivers only) existing drivers have 5 years to complete the training from the above dates. however it is a vocational requirement, therefore you can pass a HGV test and if all you do is drive your own horsebox, you do not need the cpc,

Regards

WD

Hi WD,

perhaps you are missing my point .. if this works why not roll it out to other 'at risk' catogories so europe would then have the control over it .. Ok professional drivers, at present, have to do the CPC but how long will it be before Europe decide all 'at risk' need to be monitored

Regards Jim

[little dave]

truly a decent idea of sorts.

I don't know about over there, but in the states its not uncommon to come across some half senile oldster going well under the posted limit, wearing those "cataract sunglasses" so frail that they cant turn their head to look over their shoulder so they signal for a mile before abruptly changing lanes.

I should know, my grandfather was one of them. over 90 years old and still diving. the family got together and wrote a letter to the dmv, begging them to make him retest. so the dmv called him to retest when his renewal came up.

wouldn't you know that he had been living in the same town for 60 years and knew all the stop signs. he passed even though he was nearly legally blind.

but that aside.

Laws change, the average driver would do well and good to be updated once in a while. it would also help to nip bad habits in the bud. If I can take a driver training class to reduce my speeding ticket to a non-moving violation online, (its an 8 hour class in person and 20 minutes online) then why not do it online?

that would be about one hour for an online course. payment can be made after a successful participation, and the data could be sent to the vehicle department. it could be done over the course of several days even. on lunch breaks, or that unfortunate sleepless night...

for that matter, perhaps they should include some basic CPR instruction with these tests, it would go a long way toward saving lives!

[JimR]

The driver CPC for buses started last September and for lorries it is this September (new drivers only) existing drivers have 5 years to complete the training from the above dates. however it is a vocational requirement, therefore you can pass a HGV test and if all you do is drive your own horsebox, you do not need the cpc,

Regards

WD

Hi WD,

how is this going to be policed ? will it only come to light if you have a tug by the law ? As I do know a few people with horse boxes & 2 of these drive lorries also, So if they were stoped driving a 12 tonne horse box their fine but driving a 12 tonne dust cart and their in the poo. This clause is unfair & all LGV drivers should be made to take the CPC. As my employer is paying for mine I'm not worried about the cost but what is odd a banksman course & a Digi tacho course gets rid of 15 hours !!!

Regards Jim

[JimR]

truly a decent idea of sorts.

I don't know about over there, but in the states its not uncommon to come across some half senile oldster going well under the posted limit, wearing those "cataract sunglasses" so frail that they cant turn their head to look over their shoulder so they signal for a mile before abruptly changing lanes.

I should know, my grandfather was one of them. over 90 years old and still diving. the family got together and wrote a letter to the dmv, begging them to make him retest. so the dmv called him to retest when his renewal came up.

wouldn't you know that he had been living in the same town for 60 years and knew all the stop signs. he passed even though he was nearly legally blind.

but that aside.

Laws change, the average driver would do well and good to be updated once in a while. it would also help to nip bad habits in the bud. If I can take a driver training class to reduce my speeding ticket to a non-moving violation online, (its an 8 hour class in person and 20 minutes online) then why not do it online?

that would be about one hour for an online course. payment can be made after a successful participation, and the data could be sent to the vehicle department. it could be done over the course of several days even. on lunch breaks, or that unfortunate sleepless night...

for that matter, perhaps they should include some basic CPR instruction with these tests, it would go a long way toward saving lives!

Hi Dave,

at present I'm not sure wether the first aid/cpr course will count towards the CPC, threw my work we need to have trained in that area anyway but if it is on the list there will be another 7½ hours of the CPC taken up with that.

Regards Jim

[Wombledog]

Hi WD,

how is this going to be policed ? will it only come to light if you have a tug by the law ? As I do know a few people with horse boxes & 2 of these drive lorries also, So if they were stoped driving a 12 tonne horse box their fine but driving a 12 tonne dust cart and their in the poo. This clause is unfair & all LGV drivers should be made to take the CPC. As my employer is paying for mine I'm not worried about the cost but what is odd a banksman course & a Digi tacho course gets rid of 15 hours !!!

Regards Jim

Hi Jim,

Supposedly the idea of the legislation is to improve the skills of professional drivers and therefore road safety, personally I do think that all professional drivers should undergo the training / retraining irrespective of what they drive as whilst there are some very professional drivers out there, there are also some that leave an awful lot to be desired.

As someone who has worked in all aspects of the road transport industry for nearly 35 years and has held a cat C+E (old class one) licence for 27 I think I'm qualified to comment.

Regards

WD

PS I think you'll find dust cart drivers may be exempt

[Gas up - Let's Go!]

I do think that all professional drivers should undergo the training / retraining irrespective of what they drive

Yip.

I was followed by Mr Plod (not the traffic guys - who can actually drive) last night, he then passed me on the inside at some lights, so I now followed him, for about a mile,

He crossed asolid white line whilst taking a corner,

He exceeded the speed limit

He failed to stop at a stop line, instead he treated it as a Give Way sign,

The stopped outside the chipshop.

I couldn't resist, so in I went and pointed out his 'errors' took down his number and thismornign I've reported him to the Cheif Constable!

Without going into detail, the reason I was so narked at him was the fact he was driving in MY safety space, if I had had to take action he would have hit me - this is the basis of my complaint.

Oh, and at no time was he driving under the protection of blues and two's........

Last week I witnessed a WPC try to put her Police van into a gap in the middle of the road, her oncoming vehicle was a 40ton trunk! and she forced it to stop. Cars on both sides so no-one had right of way, although she was going up hill there is no legal right of way for her, the Highway code does say you should give way to up-hill drivers "if possible"

It's not just Proffessional Drivers (those that do it for a living) , it's those you would expect to be proffessional and set an example too.

This is the trouble, people just don't take driving serioulsy enough, so if they won't then the establishment must.

It's not a right to drive/ride.

[steve m]

"""""""PS I think you'll find dust cart drivers may be exempt """""""

CPC booklet

Periodic training is designed to complement the individual drivers work and be relevant to their everyday job. Courses may include defensive driving techniques, first aid, health & safety, driver’s hour’s regulations and tachographs. Courses will also enable drivers to keep up to date with changing regulations. The syllabus broadly covers:

• Safe and fuel efficient driving

• Legal requirements

• Health and Safety, service and logistics.

There is no requirement for a course to include a test or pass/fail element.

Allready done the first syllabus 7 1/2 hours of total boredum !!

I allready hold an NVQ in transport, but I still have to do the CPC !

[pat ayres]

Get trained as soon as possible.

"I've already got a NVQ in transport" A shiver ran down my spine at that little gem. I have every qualification going but would willingly do any training on offer at regular intervals. It's not a slight to your 'prowess' as a driver, it's a safety aid.

If you seriously think your knowing the difference between a road wheel and a steering wheel makes you a good driver you should enrol now.

where I live we often having people coming to train on just one of the roads and from every police force in Europe. These people really are good drivers but always need more specialist training. Don't knock it, just do it.

[steve m]

"""I've already got a NVQ in transport" A shiver ran down my spine at that little gem""" sanctimonious t**t !!

There is no requirement for a course to include a test or pass/fail element.

So, you have obviously done the CPC, so I wonder what your thought are on the syllabus ??

"""I have every qualification going"""

Do you really

""""If you seriously think your knowing the difference between a road wheel and a steering wheel makes you a good driver you should enrol now. """

Do you know me ?? or what experance i have ? before passing your judgement on other people, get to know them first !!

[barkwindjammer]

Whats all this shouting ?

[JimR]

Hi Jim,

Supposedly the idea of the legislation is to improve the skills of professional drivers and therefore road safety, personally I do think that all professional drivers should undergo the training / retraining irrespective of what they drive as whilst there are some very professional drivers out there, there are also some that leave an awful lot to be desired.

As someone who has worked in all aspects of the road transport industry for nearly 35 years and has held a cat C+E (old class one) licence for 27 I think I'm qualified to comment.

Regards

WD

PS I think you'll find dust cart drivers may be exempt

Hi WD,

Dust cart drivers are NOT exempt

Q. Are there any exemptions to the Diver CPC?

A. Drivers of the following vehicles will not be required to hold a Driver CPC:

1.A vehicle with a maximum authorised speed not exceeding 45 km/h;

2.A vehicle used by, or under the control of, the armed forces, a police force, a fire and rescue authority;

3.A vehicle undergoing road tests for technical development, repair or maintenance purposes, or of new or rebuilt Vehicles which have not yet been put into service;

4.A vehicle used in a state of emergency or assigned to a rescue mission;

5.A vehicle used in the course of driving lessons for the purpose of enabling that person to obtain a driving licence or a CPC;

6.A vehicle used for non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods for personal use;

7.A vehicle carrying material or equipment to be used by that person in the course of his or her work, provided that driving that vehicle is not that person�s principal activity.

but the original point is if this works will the government roll this system back to other catogries (cars/bikes) ? is it a money spinner for someone ?

Regards Jim

[DTXracer]

this is only if you drive proffesionly

if you own your own 35 tonne wagon and use it for personal purposes it doesn't affect you

[JimR]

this is only if you drive proffesionly

if you own your own 35 tonne wagon and use it for personal purposes it doesn't affect you

Hi,

I would guess it's a grey area !

Ask the Question who would own a 35 tonner for personal use ?

I would guess a Steam Rally bod or rather large motor home and/or horse box as I would guess you wouldn't run the 35 tonner down to Tescos for the weekly shop ! which then leaves the hire & reward bit .... how do you define professional ? if someone gives you a tenner & pays the fuel to move their horse that becomes Hire & Reward (CPC needed) But the original comment was If this system was filtered down to other vehicles (Bikes & Cars) what would happen ? Would loads of drivers & Riders give up simply because of the cost obtaining the CPC.

Regards Jim

[DTXracer]

Hi,

I would guess it's a grey area !

Ask the Question who would own a 35 tonner for personal use ?

I would guess a Steam Rally bod or rather large motor home and/or horse box as I would guess you wouldn't run the 35 tonner down to Tescos for the weekly shop ! which then leaves the hire & reward bit .... how do you define professional ? if someone gives you a tenner & pays the fuel to move their horse that becomes Hire & Reward (CPC needed) But the original comment was If this system was filtered down to other vehicles (Bikes & Cars) what would happen ? Would loads of drivers & Riders give up simply because of the cost obtaining the CPC.

Regards Jim

if it did come down to classes A and B wouldn't it still count as proffesional drivers for example couriers and taxi drivers??

[JimR]

if it did come down to classes A and B wouldn't it still count as proffesional drivers for example couriers and taxi drivers??

OK,

perhaps the government/EU may think that this should be rolled out to all drivers under the guise of 'continuing driver training' at current costs this may make driving to costly for some (A Government wish come true perhaps ? Less stuff on the road & greater use of public transport) and would risk a fine etc for continuing to to drive or just give up.. The current CPC may just be the tip of the iceberg !

Regards Jim