vincentieo Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hi, I have a FZ 600 (87 model) which after an amount of TLC took me to Germany and back (from UK) in about a 3000 mile round trip. One week later the old girl decided to blow up on me. Oil and petrol was poring out of the clutch breather tube. I dont know much but i know that just aint good! I have decide to attempt to infuse a new life into her via a engine transplant as the old one is definitely knackered! So far I have the new (ish) engine on the floor beneath and all wired up correctly. I am getting firing but it is very unpredictable and certainly no signs of smooth engine running yet. If anyone know of any hints and tricks to firing up an engine that has been lying around for at least 2 years collecting dust, please please post them up here. I am trying to avoid a complete rebuild because of lack of time and technical know how. As an aside I have seen a nice (1995 or 98) xj 600 diversion on ebay. does anyone know if there is any reason why either the 95 or 98 wot fit into the fz??? same electrics? same frame mounting points? Thanks in advance for all help given, Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hi, I have a FZ 600 (87 model) which after an amount of TLC took me to Germany and back (from UK) in about a 3000 mile round trip. One week later the old girl decided to blow up on me. Oil and petrol was poring out of the clutch breather tube. I dont know much but i know that just aint good! I have decide to attempt to infuse a new life into her via a engine transplant as the old one is definitely knackered! So far I have the new (ish) engine on the floor beneath and all wired up correctly. I am getting firing but it is very unpredictable and certainly no signs of smooth engine running yet. If anyone know of any hints and tricks to firing up an engine that has been lying around for at least 2 years collecting dust, please please post them up here. I am trying to avoid a complete rebuild because of lack of time and technical know how. As an aside I have seen a nice (1995 or 98) xj 600 diversion on ebay. does anyone know if there is any reason why either the 95 or 98 wot fit into the fz??? same electrics? same frame mounting points? Thanks in advance for all help given, Vince Hi Vince, the Divi wont fit ( i guess your FZ is an aircooled one) which leads me on have you fitted an xj600/550 or an FZ ? if you have fitted one of the former the ignition system is totally different so you mave have just an ignition problem, fit the pickup & stator plate to see if this cures the prob... but if this is the case you may have damaged the cdi/tci box ... without knowning the full state of play it is difficult to answer your question Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentieo Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Hi Jim, thanks for such a swift reply. It is a FZ engine so I think that it should be fine with the existing ignition system. I am getting a healthy looking spark from all 4 plugs. However, the negative lead from the battery does tend to get quite hot when trying to fire the engine up for 30 seconds or more. is this normal? I am now hearing what i think is the piston reaching the top of the cylinder then there is a pause (to long to be normal) and then the next one. So it would seem that the pistons are sticking??? How could I help loosen them? Thanks again, vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Hi Jim, thanks for such a swift reply. It is a FZ engine so I think that it should be fine with the existing ignition system. I am getting a healthy looking spark from all 4 plugs. However, the negative lead from the battery does tend to get quite hot when trying to fire the engine up for 30 seconds or more. is this normal? I am now hearing what i think is the piston reaching the top of the cylinder then there is a pause (to long to be normal) and then the next one. So it would seem that the pistons are sticking??? How could I help loosen them? Thanks again, vince Hi Vince, With the starter runing for 30 seconds or so the wires will get warm !!! 'The sticking' problem is more likley to be the starter motor not being up to it (worn brushes etc) .... In the past (if all else fails) I have connected a small car battery (say 55ah) which will spin the motor really fast but use caution as you could ruin the starter motor. To date have you had this motor running or not or just the odd misfire ? this could have some bearing on the problem you have. Post exactly what happens when the motor fires up .. i.e runs for a second then dies or just misfires or when started runs 'lumpy' Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentieo Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Jim, Firstly, thanks for all the sound advice, I really appreciate it. Ok, so the engine will bang, that is to say that I hear and see one explosion. Being a 4 it should of course bang 4 times and this is the best I have got out of her: 4 bangs in a row. As to actually starting, i have not yet reached a stage of ticking over this is partly due to the battery running flat after a five or six attempts so I have to wait unitil the next evening to try again so I think i will investigate your car battery idea. I have been spraying easy start directly into the carbs. This often ignites with the result of a cold flash of flame coming out of one of the down pipe holes (i have no exhaust attached) but doesn't seem to really start the whole firing process off. I have also just noticed that I am low on oil so I will be topping it up before the next attempt tomorrow. intermittently I get an electrical clicking noise that sound as if it is coming from the starter solenoid. When this happens the engine will not turn over. It usually goes away if a just push various wires around so i am guessing it is a loose connection somewhere. It is a horrible crunching click so to save my ears and as i found a cheap one on ebay i will be replacing it soon. (although this is a starter solenoid from a xj i think!?) When the bike does fire, either once, twice, thrice or four times smoke comes slightly out of the carbs and prierially out of the downpipes outlets. I guess this means there is a lot of carbon and general rubbish inside the engine and that it will slowly dissipate with use of the engine. I was thinking of adding a fuel additive to help clean inside. That is all i can think of at the mo, let me know if any ideas spring to mind, thanks, vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Jim, Firstly, thanks for all the sound advice, I really appreciate it. Ok, so the engine will bang, that is to say that I hear and see one explosion. Being a 4 it should of course bang 4 times and this is the best I have got out of her: 4 bangs in a row. As to actually starting, i have not yet reached a stage of ticking over this is partly due to the battery running flat after a five or six attempts so I have to wait unitil the next evening to try again so I think i will investigate your car battery idea. I have been spraying easy start directly into the carbs. This often ignites with the result of a cold flash of flame coming out of one of the down pipe holes (i have no exhaust attached) but doesn't seem to really start the whole firing process off. I have also just noticed that I am low on oil so I will be topping it up before the next attempt tomorrow. intermittently I get an electrical clicking noise that sound as if it is coming from the starter solenoid. When this happens the engine will not turn over. It usually goes away if a just push various wires around so i am guessing it is a loose connection somewhere. It is a horrible crunching click so to save my ears and as i found a cheap one on ebay i will be replacing it soon. (although this is a starter solenoid from a xj i think!?) When the bike does fire, either once, twice, thrice or four times smoke comes slightly out of the carbs and prierially out of the downpipes outlets. I guess this means there is a lot of carbon and general rubbish inside the engine and that it will slowly dissipate with use of the engine. I was thinking of adding a fuel additive to help clean inside. That is all i can think of at the mo, let me know if any ideas spring to mind, thanks, vince Hi vince from what u say the battery has seen better days (may still be the starter) and the starting is down to incorrect ignition timing which may be down to an incorrect TCI or pickup as you have a mixture I cannot answer which is at fault as the motors you have do not give me the cdi/tci box curves Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Motorsport Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 ( i guess your FZ is an aircooled one) I must admit, I've never seen an air cooled FZ600 in the UK, 400s yes, but never a 600. All of mine are, and have been, water cooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentieo Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 I must admit, I've never seen an air cooled FZ600 in the UK, 400s yes, but never a 600. All of mine are, and have been, water cooled. It is oil cooled! (well it has an oil cooler so i assume that is what that means). With regards to TCI curves etc. it all sound a bit out of my league. Do you have any more info or know anywhere i might be able to get it? Do you think replacing these units (and the battery) might help solve the issue? Also, just to make it clear, it is a FZ engine not an XJ, i was just wondering if it were possible to use one. I dont know if this is the mixture you are talking about? thanks again, vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I must admit, I've never seen an air cooled FZ600 in the UK, 400s yes, but never a 600. All of mine are, and have been, water cooled. Trundle back to the 80's the first FZ600 imported to the UK was basically an XJ600 motor,here is a picture of one, dumped into a chassis to make it look a bit like the new breed FZ's (750/1000) at the time, but as it was then 'old hat' it did not sell too well on the UK market ... I rode one from Mitsui in Chessington back to Worcestershire and to be honest it was an XJ in pure sports trim ! Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 It is oil cooled! (well it has an oil cooler so i assume that is what that means). With regards to TCI curves etc. it all sound a bit out of my league. Do you have any more info or know anywhere i might be able to get it? Do you think replacing these units (and the battery) might help solve the issue? Also, just to make it clear, it is a FZ engine not an XJ, i was just wondering if it were possible to use one. I dont know if this is the mixture you are talking about? thanks again, vince Hi Vince, The oil cooler was there just to keep the oil cool all the XJ/FZ600 motors had them. the engine you have is air cooled (assuming your bike looks like the pic in the previous post). To start with just add the larger capacity battery and turn the bike over and see if it starts if it does job done ! If not you may have 1 of 2 problems (sorry I didnt make myself clear in the last reply as I was in a rush) 1) The Carbs need to be looked at if they are the carbs from the blown engine as the new engine will have a different state of wear to the orginal motor and they will need to be adjusted to suit the 'new' engine, without knowing the state of play with the 'new' motor the carb balance & mixture strengh may be well out. 2) TCI unit: over different years the TCI was 'remapped' so the donor motors pickup may not match the original TCI unit, without more knowledge of the 2 engines & the bike it would be difficult to answer if they are the same, the pickup may be sending the wrong info to the TCI or the TCI is not acting on the info from the pickup correctly. I don't know what more to say until it is worked out if you have an FZ air cooled or water cooled. Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentieo Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Hi all, Thanks for all the help, sorry I haven't replied for a while but I have simply not had the time. I have however, had some progress: The engine has an oil cooler but is definitely not water cooled. I am using the carbs from the 'new' engine. With persistence, an oil change and general praying the engine did start up and sounded relatively healthy. I tried again to improve things today and now it wont even turn over. There is a loud ticking (clicking) coming from the starter solenoid. I have tried switching it three times but all with the same result: it keeps ticking the and starter will not turn over....??? What could this be? thanks again for all your help and thanks in advance, vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hi all, Thanks for all the help, sorry I haven't replied for a while but I have simply not had the time. I have however, had some progress: The engine has an oil cooler but is definitely not water cooled. I am using the carbs from the 'new' engine. With persistence, an oil change and general praying the engine did start up and sounded relatively healthy. I tried again to improve things today and now it wont even turn over. There is a loud ticking (clicking) coming from the starter solenoid. I have tried switching it three times but all with the same result: it keeps ticking the and starter will not turn over....??? What could this be? Hi Vince sounds like you have a flatr battery ,,, try recharging it and when the bike is running check the charge rate using a volt meter. Regards Jim thanks again for all your help and thanks in advance, vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentieo Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Hi all, I have finally scrounged together another free time to do some more work. You were right Jim, the battery was knackered. I had fully charged it several times thinking that the noise could have come from that problem but i never considered the batt was a complete wright off! Anyways, the bike now runs. And well, considering there are no downpipes or silencer and no airfilter i am amazed it will still idle fairly well. The odd flick of flame here and there but I dont think it is any thing to worry about. I have discovered however, that the clutch doesn't seem to be working! the engine is resting on blocks (lower that it would normally be) under the frame. The clutch cable just reached it after routing it in a more direct line. unfortunately, when pulled in, nothing seems to disengage. The lever is itself very very hard to pull. At first I thought it was just that the resting point of the clutch lever on the engine was not properly adjusted so I tightened the cable, pulling it forward. Now I can feel what i think is the limit of the clutch 'pull range' (how far it will actually move) and still the bike remains in gear. I am only checking this by putting it into 1st or 2nd then trying to tern the front sprocket with my hands. I am pretty sure that it should turn? Does anyone have any bright ideas? What might be going on behind that laded clutch cover? thanks all, Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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