lights or not in the day?

[oldtimer]

the reason i ask this question is that today a guy in a car almost wiped me out , i was going down the motorway in the inside lane as i was preparing to come off at the next junction when this car in the second lane indicated as he passed me to pull in the inside lane but indicated and pulled across the front of me in one movement forcing me to take avoiding action to say the least as we both came off the motorway together he wound his window down and said he was sorry but as he over took me he looked in his mirror and thought i had flashed him, luckily no harm done but it made me wonder about the use of lights in the day ,i know with more modern bikes the lights come on when the engine is started but i have a choice with my bike, lights or no lights what does everybody else think?

[wild foamy]

i keep mine on low beam during the day, when your as inexperianced as i am on a bike as small as mine in shitty weather you need to be as visable as possible.

atleast he was considerate enough to stop, apologise and explain

[0nthecase]

the reason i ask this question is that today a guy in a car almost wiped me out , i was going down the motorway in the inside lane as i was preparing to come off at the next junction when this car in the second lane indicated as he passed me to pull in the inside lane but indicated and pulled across the front of me in one movement forcing me to take avoiding action to say the least as we both came off the motorway together he wound his window down and said he was sorry but as he over took me he looked in his mirror and thought i had flashed him, luckily no harm done but it made me wonder about the use of lights in the day ,i know with more modern bikes the lights come on when the engine is started but i have a choice with my bike, lights or no lights what does everybody else think?

lights mate, they could just save your life one day. as you say with most new bikes they come on auto but even on a older machine i would still put the lights on in day time. i been riding 19 year on the road and not had a accident yet. im not sayin thats down to the lights but i think it does help.

daz

[jamax]

lights on in my opinion

its the law here in spain with a big fine if you forget, so that works for me.

i also think having twin headlights is more of an eye graber for those, not so smart drivers

[Gas up - Let's Go!]

he looked in his mirror and thought i had flashed him,

That's the problem, not the lights. A flash of a light simply means "I'm here" not, pull in front of me, there's a speed trap ahead, yes it's OK to pull out - or any other reason.

I've had this discussion many many times over the last 24 years, and there are two very good arguments, for instance, and this is very simplistic:

You are riding down a road with no lights, in daylight, it's dry and there is good visability and it's a bit of an uneven surface. As you approach a junction the guy in the car looks right at you, waits until you get close then pulls out in front of you. When asked the guy "didn't see you"

Next day, same road, same conditions but you have your light on. same thing again the guy pulls out because " I though you flashed your lights to let me out"

There's no right and wrong with this topic, both side has sound arguments for it. Personally I like to have my lights on, and my bike has much more road presence than most due to the very high headlight, so there is never an excuse for drivers not to see me. There's little point being right when you're in casualty, but at least there is some recourse, and I would insist that any driver who does something stupid that could put me in danger was dealt with as hard as the law would allow.

Without lights on, the driver has a reasonable excuse to absolve themselves from blame (the difference fro due care and an accident), especialy as the (I think I'm right here, but maybe not) bikes must have Daylight Running Lights, so it would be expected that the safest way is to run with lights on. As we all know the law doesn't stand up for the motorcyclist very well at all.

I think most experienced riders will concour that you develope a 6th sense for drivers ability, some you know have seen you, others haven't a clue and there are many in between. I think the lights on argument has some grounding to help them see you, but it has to be in partnership with some defensive riding, or sometime just plane aggressive riding.

[Ttaskmaster]

I don't usually use my lights except at night or in poor visibility.

I work on the assumption that drivers will not see me anyway and, even if they do, half will still try and race me/beat me off the lights/pull past or out before I get there or just not give a fuck and smash the shit out of me with their cars.

Thing is, if they cannot see a large shiny bike with chrome all over the place, how do they expect to see a cyclist or a child on the road?

I also notice I have less close shaves now I don't bother with the lights and just alter my riding.

I'm basically the other side of the argument.

Picture this - Bloke with white lid, yellow Hi-Viz riding a FUCKING BRIGHT orange motorcycle (the same colour as the DynoRod vans) also with headlights on. Someone turned straight into him on an otherwise empty road, with a "SMIDSY".

Do whatever you can to help, but also realise that if someone wants you off, through stupidity, ignorance or intention, there won't be much you can do.

[yoda]

It matters not about on or off because in 2011 it will be compulsory to have daylight driving lights.

[Gas up - Let's Go!]

I just don't get this government, they tell us we must use lights, presumably because it makes us stand out more, when the real problem is drivers not looking, but they do nothing about that save a few crappy adverts on the telly.

Why don't they do something about old ladies and umberellas ?? they're far more dangerous!

[Lew]

I'd go for lights everytime mate especially when there are blind bastards like me around driving cars.

Think about it, what are the most visible cars on the roads these days, usually a Volvo or Saab. They have automatic daylights and I for one see them handy enough.

I ride with mine on as being a modern bike they are on as soon as you start off. If the police motorcyclists seem to think it keeps them more visible it is good enough for me.

One of the faults that lead to bikers getting clipped is the design of some modern vechicles. I have a little MPV as in a Vauxhall Meriva, the blind spots on these means you have to be on your toes. I only had it a week and I nearly clipped a kid on an old model honda he did not have his lights on could have made a difference, hands up my fault and thankfully only harm done was soiled underpants all round.

I would not go as far as a lot of bikers in France do (Paris rush hour) alot of these guys run with there hazzard warning lights on, nah! maybe they have it right the way they weave through traffic they are the hazzard.

Whats that safety slogan LOOK ONCE , LOOK TWICE THINK BIKE ???

Stay safe

Lew

[Yammy dodger]

I ride with my lights on every time personally I think it is a life saver.

You notice how many bikes coming towards you with no lights and bikes

with lights I know which ones I see first.

Don't know if I heard right but European law is changing and all vehicles from

a certain date may have too have there lights on for day time driving.

Which I think defeats the object for bikes to have there lights on, as a car driver

will be looking for too lights in is mirrors and not one.

[mark h]

lights on every time, With Bright yellow tabard, plus a red bike, That roars,

IF YOU CAN`T SEE ME, YOU AIN`T LOOKIN...

[Gas up - Let's Go!]

IF YOU CAN`T SEE ME, YOU AIN`T LOOKIN...

From a Police instructor; "We ride big white bikes, with HiVis Orange stripes, I have a HiVis yellow jacket, white lid, blue flashing lights and a siren - and they still don't se us" I think that sums it up realy.

The quote from MarkH is very true indeed.

[oldtimer]

lights mate, they could just save your life one day. as you say with most new bikes they come on auto but even on a older machine i would still put the lights on in day time. i been riding 19 year on the road and not had a accident yet. im not sayin thats down to the lights but i think it does help.

daz

i have also been riding a long time like you 44yrs in my case and have also not had an accident come close a few times and for most of that time without daytime lights but seem to have had more near misses since using lights so am still not convinced by the argument for

lights on in my opinion

its the law here in spain with a big fine if you forget, so that works for me.

:

its also the law in a lot of other european countries so one would expect that in those countries the accident rates to go down not up! but they have gone up?

That's the problem, not the lights. A flash of a light simply means "I'm here" not, pull in front of me, there's a speed trap ahead, yes it's OK to pull out - or any other reason.

I've had this discussion many many times over the last 24 years, and there are two very good arguments, for instance, and this is very simplistic:

There's no right and wrong with this topic, both side has sound arguments for it. Personally I like to have my lights on, and my bike has much more road presence than most due to the very high headlight, so there is never an excuse for drivers not to see me. There's little point being right when you're in casualty, but at least there is some recourse, and I would insist that any driver who does something stupid that could put me in danger was dealt with as hard as the law would allow.

Without lights on, the driver has a reasonable excuse to absolve themselves from blame (the difference fro due care and an accident), especialy as the (I think I'm right here, but maybe not) bikes must have Daylight Running Lights, so it would be expected that the safest way is to run with lights on. As we all know the law doesn't stand up for the motorcyclist very well at all.

I think most experienced riders will concour that you develop a 6th sense for drivers ability, some you know have seen you, others haven't a clue and there are many in between. I think the lights on argument has some grounding to help them see you, but it has to be in partnership with some defensive riding, or sometime just plane aggressive riding.

i would have to agree with you there is no right or wrong answer to the question,logically it should be lights on but it seems to confuse some drivers the use of lights ! was it a warning ? did he mean he has seen me ? is he letting me pull out all very confusing.

I don't usually use my lights except at night or in poor visibility.

I work on the assumption that drivers will not see

Thing is, if they cannot see a large shiny bike with chrome all over the place, how do they expect to see a cyclist or a child on the road?

I also notice I have less close shaves now I don't bother with the lights and just alter my riding.

I'm basically the other side of the argument.

having rode for most of my life not using daytime lights like you i have seem to have had most near misses when using them, i view all other road users as a potential threat and like gas up i think after a few years you do develop a six sense or maybe like most other bikers we are more aware because we are vulnerable to all these idiots driving about not concentrating using there bloody mobile phones.

It matters not about on or off because in 2011 it will be compulsory to have daylight driving lights.

well lets just hope when it is introduced that our accident figures buck the trend of the other countries and go down?

I'd go for lights everytime mate especially when there are blind bastards like me around driving cars.

If the police motorcyclists seem to think it keeps them more visible it is good enough for me.

Whats that safety slogan LOOK ONCE , LOOK TWICE THINK BIKE ???

Stay safe

Lew

well all those police motorcyclists can not be that visible the amount of motorists they stop and who never saw them, lol like the slogan but they still never see us ! what about that other old slogan "go to work on a egg"

lights on every time, With Bright yellow tabard, plus a red bike, That roars,

IF YOU CAN`T SEE ME, YOU AIN`T LOOKIN...

i think you have got it in one mark they dont bloody look!

thanks very much everyone for your opinions but i remain unconvinced ! heated grips sat nav. day time lights , the battery manufactures must be seeing a big increase in sales but at least somebody is seeing some thing

[0nthecase]

i have also been riding a long time like you 44yrs in my case and have also not had an accident come close a few times and for most of that time without daytime lights but seem to have had more near misses since using lights so am still not convinced by the argument for

its also the law in a lot of other european countries so one would expect that in those countries the accident rates to go down not up! but they have gone up?

i would have to agree with you there is no right or wrong answer to the question,logically it should be lights on but it seems to confuse some drivers the use of lights ! was it a warning ? did he mean he has seen me ? is he letting me pull out all very confusing.

having rode for most of my life not using daytime lights like you have seem to have had most near misses when using them, i view all other road users as a potential threat and like gas up i think after a few years you do develop a six sense or maybe like most other bikers we are more aware because we are vulnerable to all these idiots driving about not concentrating using there bloody mobile phones.

well lets just hope when it is introduced that our accident figures buck the trend of the other countries and go down?

well all those police motorcyclists can not be that visible the amount of motorists they stop and who never saw them, lol like the slogan but they still never see us ! what about that other old slogan "go to work on a egg"

i think you have got it in one mark they dont bloody look!

thanks very much everyone for your opinions but i remain unconvinced ! heated grips sat nav. day time lights , the battery manufactures must be seeing a big increase in sales but at least somebody is seeing some thing

its a no win situation really you can get knocked off with em on or off its what ever you feel safer with i guess, i just feel that bit safer with em on but thats because i always had them on and never had a accident ... every one to there own i guess

[Ttaskmaster]

you have seem to have had most near misses when using them,

Yeah, what's with that?

Safer with them off??!!

I guess they don't see me and therefore don't start going, "Oh no, it's a nasty biker, what shall I do", start panicking and swerving.... or purposely trying to fuck my life up.

Either way, so long as I don't come to blows with them, I'm happy.

[oldtimer]

Yeah, what's with that?

Safer with them off??!!

I guess they don't see me and therefore don't start going, "Oh no, it's a nasty biker, what shall I do", start panicking and swerving.... or purposely trying to fuck my life up.

Either way, so long as I don't come to blows with them, I'm happy.

sorry mate should have put like you i seem to have had most near misses when i have them on ,so i think if i have gone all them years not on and no accidents i will revert back to no lights,at least then no body thinks i have flashed my lights at them ,if they can read a number plate at the required distance on there test then there is there is no reason why they cant see motorcycles.

[drewpy]

sorry mate should have put like you i seem to have had most near misses when i have them on ,so i think if i have gone all them years not on and no accidents i will revert back to no lights,at least then no body thinks i have flashed my lights at them ,if they can read a number plate at the required distance on there test then there is there is no reason why they cant see motorcycles.

If you have an old Gs you HAVE to have them on or your alternator gets fried (overheats)

[Goff]

My own common sense tells me to ride with them on - my bikes an import so they are on automatically anyway, but i've always ridden with them on with my previous bikes - it does make me more visible than without them.

Using the excuse he thought you flashed him is bollox - he did not look properly.

[0nthecase]

My own common sense tells me to ride with them on - my bikes an import so they are on automatically anyway, but i've always ridden with them on with my previous bikes - it does make me more visible than without them.

Using the excuse he thought you flashed him is bollox - he did not look properly.

im with you on this one goff, i would not feel safe with out them on now, i ride with 6 other lads on sports bikes and they all have there lights on as well, and i noticed most other bikers seem to have em on now days ....

[chrisw]

My bike has daylight running lights so I can't switch them off, and the bike I had before I did keep the lights on.

but

I don't agree with ALL vehicles having to use them and with good reason. Using dipped lights during the day is a trade off With lights on you're more likely to be seen so great for motorcyclists who car drivers just don't see (but then to see something you have to look in the first place), most people see cars so there's no need to have daylight lights on cars.

What is lost though is Depth Perception, if you're looking at a light in the day that is travelling towards you, you often can barely see the vehicle that they belong too, until it get's closer and therefore it's harder to judge the vehicles speed, so in many cases a car can pull out on another vehicle that the driver has seen, but causes an accident because they had judged the speed of the other vehicle very wrong.

If we do go down the route of all vehicles using running lights during the day, expect to see accidents between car drivers and other car drivers go up, and what it could also mean is that bike lights will get lost in the sea of other vehicle lights on busy roads and lead to more 'sorry i dodn't see you' situations.

Basically it will be a good revenue stream, because to combat the accidents they'll throw up more Speed Camera's as the government will say that's what the cause is.