Counter steering techniqe

[JUST ME!]

Hello all,

Recently did a rider course that was required for a new job that i started. Even though i had been riding many fast bikes over many years, i had never heard of the term counter steering. Once learning and practising this technique i now believe this to be one of the most useful things that i have been shown when it comes to bike riding. For years when i wanted to avoid an obstacle quickly, i dropped the bike in the direction i wanted to go and gassed it passed the obstacle, then dropped it back to the original line. After being shown counter steering i will never rely soley on the old method again. Most of you are probably aware of this technique. For those of you that are not, you will, without doubt, be amazed at the difference it makes. I am probably a slow learner. If so, i hope this helps the rest of the slow ones out there.

BEST WISHES AND HAVE A BLAST.

[clivey]

yep you are right this is a great way to go

[chrisw]

If you've been riding fast bikes for years you've been Counter Steering for years anyway! Anything over 20mph (approx), you have to counter steer you just don't actually realise you're doing it. What the course has showed you is to apply counter steering with more intention, it's all to do with the Gyroscopic effect of a spinning wheel, turn it to the left and it will drop to the right.

[Ttaskmaster]

It's a bit more complex than Chris explains and it does change slightly at different speeds, but he's absolutely right.

I have explained it to people, then had them go out on the bike and try it. Despite having experienced it right then and there (I was riding behind and even saw them), they STILL swear blind that it doesn't exist.... stupid feckers!!

Some of it depends on the bike you ride.

Mostly, we ride by feel. Riding, say, a Sportsbike you feel like you're tipping the bike in, so that must be how it works, right?

Nothing wrong with this understanding - It's whatever your brain needs to make it work.

Ride a Cruiser and with no great effort from the legs, you certainly start feeling the steer controlled by the arms. Myself, I actually pull the bars, rather than push them, hanging off the outside grip in a corner. Makes it slightly easier when straightening up as the muscle groups work better.

That said, I know I still corner with my knee stuck out - Like I'm going to get that down on a Drag!!

[JUST ME!]

It's a bit more complex than Chris explains and it does change slightly at different speeds, but he's absolutely right.

I have explained it to people, then had them go out on the bike and try it. Despite having experienced it right then and there (I was riding behind and even saw them), they STILL swear blind that it doesn't exist.... stupid feckers!!

Some of it depends on the bike you ride.

Mostly, we ride by feel. Riding, say, a Sportsbike you feel like you're tipping the bike in, so that must be how it works, right?

Nothing wrong with this understanding - It's whatever your brain needs to make it work.

Ride a Cruiser and with no great effort from the legs, you certainly start feeling the steer controlled by the arms. Myself, I actually pull the bars, rather than push them, hanging off the outside grip in a corner. Makes it slightly easier when straightening up as the muscle groups work better.

That said, I know I still corner with my knee stuck out - Like I'm going to get that down on a Drag!!

I agree with you fully in that anyone that does not agree that this techniqe exists is doing themselves a great injustice. It has improved my bike positioning skills greatly. If riders have the opportunity to be shown this technique correctly, jump at the chance. I have found that not only am i giving the handlebar in the direction of travel a distinct nudge forward, i am also at the same moment pulling back on the opposite bar. I would suggest that people DO NOT practice this technique in the wet and DO NOT use the brakes whilst using this technique. I might be just easily pleased, but i found that this has developed a whole new buzz about riding. Sort of like the first time you ever cornered with a knee down or did a wheelstand. LOVING IT, BEST WISHES.

[Ttaskmaster]

Sort of like the first time you ever cornered with a knee down or did a wheelstand.

First time I ever did a wheelstand?

DAS course, right in front of my instructor!!!

Can't say I was particularly thrilled, despite him cracking up.......

[chrisw]

totally agree it's far more complicated, actual effect depends on all sorts of things from fork rake/tyre profile/speed blah blah. I was just giving a very simplistic view.

[Ttaskmaster]

Hey, simple is good.

The fact is that countersteering is the ONLY way to steer a bike (except at very slow speeds). However, people do not need to know it to steer properly.

[Gas up - Let's Go!]

Myself, I actually pull the bars, rather than push them,

Now, I , on the other hand - push

It's something that was tought to me a looonnnnnnggggggg time ago when I couldn't quite get the hang of leaning the bike (I think I was about 13..) but I was riding on sand/dirt and I was terrified of the bike falling on me. It was a bit of mind over matter, sort of pushing the bike down into the corner, don't have to worry about trying to lean over.

It's a bit of mind over matter, we all do it - just some of us are aware of what we're doing....

I'm fairly sure this thread has been talked to death somewhere else - or is my mind going ??

[kevin10529]

Pretty sure i do it all the time. They shoud just call it steering take the counter part away waste of letters.

[Ttaskmaster]

Countersteering crops up a fair bit on bike forums.

As for the hang/push idea - I just find hanging easier.

On a bike with narrower bars, like a Deauville or a 'Blade, pushing tends to be easier.

Either way, when you 'lean' the bike, your head and chest move first. This automatically puts a slight puch through your shoulders, down your arms and on to the bars. It's only a few millimetres, so most people don't notice it.

[JUST ME!]

Countersteering crops up a fair bit on bike forums.

As for the hang/push idea - I just find hanging easier.

On a bike with narrower bars, like a Deauville or a 'Blade, pushing tends to be easier.

Either way, when you 'lean' the bike, your head and chest move first. This automatically puts a slight puch through your shoulders, down your arms and on to the bars. It's only a few millimetres, so most people don't notice it.

Hi all, I think I may have missed the mark a little when I posted this thread. I understand that we are automatically countersteering with small amounts of input at higher speeds. I just never realised how much difference it made for possible crash avoidance situations at medium speeds. After being taught this technique properly it is surprising just how much input you do impart to the bike to carry out the process at medium speeds,especially on larger bikes. Lets face it, the most likely scenario for a crash is some tool pulling out in front of us whilst we are travelling at say 20 mph and above. That reasonably common case where we can,t stop in time so we have to get around them. It seems to me that this is where this technique carried out somewhat aggressively, becomes very useful. Those of you that are not sure wether you are using this technique to its full advantage, simply are not. My reasoning behind this is that it takes a considerable amount of input to generate the quick,swooping action required to get around the front of a moving vehicle. I know full well that I most definately wasn't dealing with this sort of situation at an optimum level, for the better part of 30 years.Probably more good fortune than skill is the only reason I wasn't collected. Anyway,food for thought. If it turns one riders crash into a near miss, it was worth the discussion. BEST WISHES AND HAVE A BLAST!

[TazR6]

Not read the whole thing, so no idea if it has been mentioned, but anybody, who has ever ridden over (approx, depending on bike) 17MPH has counter steered. With no counter steering, due to the gyroscopic effect, we would not be able to turn corners at all.

It is something that is done unconsciously.

Consciously doing it (in a straight line, push on your right bar, and you will turn right) makes it appear that it is a new technique, but really, it isnt.

Sometimes doing it consciously can help though. If you find yourself going wide on a corner, the instinctive thing to do is slow down. That will make it worse. You have to accelerate a bit, and, if a left hander, push on your left bar. This will cause your bike to turn in harder, and you will make the corner.

....Just read it. Whoops lol. Must learn to read before posting a response lol.

[Spraguepsycho1]

.........My reasoning behind this is that it takes a considerable amount of input to generate the quick,swooping action required to get around the front of a moving vehicle...........

I usually try to get around behind a moving vehicle instead of in front of them if I don't have enough time to stop. Seems like it gives me a little more room since I'm heading to where they were, instead of where they intend to go.

[Gas up - Let's Go!]

I'm heading to where they were, instead of where they intend to go.

I agree.

I did some racing training in my 20's, and this is one of the safety techniques they teach you - If a car is spinning on the track in front of you, point at where it is, cos when you get there, it won't be.

Same on the road, point at the moving hazard if things go pear shaped (and you are running out of options) - chances are it won't be there when you are. Of course this is only a small part of the whole riding thing - every option has it's day!

[Rich_B]

Hi, I've been taught the countersteering technique, on my DAS, and well what a differance! I found using the technique a revelation. The direction change is instantanious, just wish I'd have know about it when I was tooling about on me Aprilia RS125

[JUST ME!]

Hi, I've been taught the countersteering technique, on my DAS, and well what a differance! I found using the technique a revelation. The direction change is instantanious, just wish I'd have know about it when I was tooling about on me Aprilia RS125

Good stuff isn't it? Wish i had been shown properly how to do it years and years ago. Never too old to learn!

HAVE A BLAST AND ALL THE BEST FOR 2009!

[YamaGod]

Good stuff isn't it? Wish i had been shown properly how to do it years and years ago. Never too old to learn!

HAVE A BLAST AND ALL THE BEST FOR 2009!

Here is an interesting link, about counter steering.

http://genjac.com/BoomerBiker/Countersteering.htm

[JUST ME!]

Here is an interesting link, about counter steering.

http://genjac.com/BoomerBiker/Countersteering.htm

Thanks for the link! Best wishes for 2009.