DT200 Starting Issue

[88DT200]

The Bike: 1989 DT200 (2 stroke dual sport). Liquid cooled, kick start, basically a liquid cooled Blaster 200 engine with a powervlave.

The Issue: Doesn’t run, just sputters, backfires and dies.

History: Was running mint. Non-starting issue was an intermittent problem, but it hasn’t been running for about 2 months now, so I think the problem’s here to stay. It will start up first kick, sputter for an exciting 5 seconds, backfire and die. Engine is non-responsive while it's doing it's 5 second sputtering routine.

What I’ve Checked/Done:

Compression: Running about 200psi.

Spark: Plenty of spark at the plug when I kick it over. Spark will jump a 7mm gap. Nice blue spark. New Spark plug.

Fuel: Rebuilt carb with stock jetting. New 94 octane gas. New Reeds.

Air: Cleaned air filter. No air leaks, no exhaust restrictions in pipe.

Power Value: clean powervalve and servo works perfectly.

Electrical: New and fully charged battery. Neutral and Side stand switches working.

Other: Thrown numerous wrenches across the floor. Surprisingly didn't fix the problem. Praying hasn't helped either.

Theories:

1. Bad CDI. Is there any way to check this?

2. Bad Coil/Stator: Maybe providing spark during starting, but nothing once running. Is there a way to check this?

3. The bike hates me.

My guess is electrical but I’ve cleaned, and tested more switches and connectors that I would like to admit to. Are there any other places I can look to diagnose? What would experts like yourselves try next?

Thanks for reading!!

[JimR]

The Bike: 1989 DT200 (2 stroke dual sport). Liquid cooled, kick start, basically a liquid cooled Blaster 200 engine with a powervlave.

The Issue: Doesn’t run, just sputters, backfires and dies.

History: Was running mint. Non-starting issue was an intermittent problem, but it hasn’t been running for about 2 months now, so I think the problem’s here to stay. It will start up first kick, sputter for an exciting 5 seconds, backfire and die. Engine is non-responsive while it's doing it's 5 second sputtering routine.

What I’ve Checked/Done:

Compression: Running about 200psi.

Spark: Plenty of spark at the plug when I kick it over. Spark will jump a 7mm gap. Nice blue spark. New Spark plug.

Fuel: Rebuilt carb with stock jetting. New 94 octane gas. New Reeds.

Air: Cleaned air filter. No air leaks, no exhaust restrictions in pipe.

Power Value: clean powervalve and servo works perfectly.

Electrical: New and fully charged battery. Neutral and Side stand switches working.

Other: Thrown numerous wrenches across the floor. Surprisingly didn't fix the problem. Praying hasn't helped either.

Theories:

1. Bad CDI. Is there any way to check this?

2. Bad Coil/Stator: Maybe providing spark during starting, but nothing once running. Is there a way to check this?

3. The bike hates me.

My guess is electrical but I’ve cleaned, and tested more switches and connectors that I would like to admit to. Are there any other places I can look to diagnose? What would experts like yourselves try next?

Thanks for reading!!

I guess this bike is a watercooled single 2 stroke ?

1) There is a chance your pulse coil is playing up white/red trace from the mag

2) one of the spanners you threw is lodged in the power valve

as I have no specs for this bike I would go for pluse coil to start with (the ignition weak link) then check orange & black/white wires to the CDI box. The CDI unit can be tested via a special tool (dam thing cost £1k back in the mid 80's). Secondary Coil (ht) is a much easier test . So do the pluse coil test (get the readout from somewhere), followed up by HT coil test and CDI box wires for bad connections (also test the resistance of the plug cap, 5K ohm). If this works out OK and the carb work etc you have done is sound replace the CDI unit, but I would guess you have a pulse coil playing up or , but I doubt, a broken woodruff key

Regards Jim

[88DT200]

I guess this bike is a watercooled single 2 stroke ?

1) There is a chance your pulse coil is playing up white/red trace from the mag

2) one of the spanners you threw is lodged in the power valve

as I have no specs for this bike I would go for pluse coil to start with (the ignition weak link) then check orange & black/white wires to the CDI box. The CDI unit can be tested via a special tool (dam thing cost £1k back in the mid 80's). Secondary Coil (ht) is a much easier test . So do the pluse coil test (get the readout from somewhere), followed up by HT coil test and CDI box wires for bad connections (also test the resistance of the plug cap, 5K ohm). If this works out OK and the carb work etc you have done is sound replace the CDI unit, but I would guess you have a pulse coil playing up or , but I doubt, a broken woodruff key

Regards Jim

Thanks Jim! Great reply. I'll look into the pulse coil first and work my way around. Flywheel's coming off this weekend - provided I find the flywheel puller....probably next to the spanners I've been throwing. Thanks again for the response!

[choppernorgate]

The Bike: 1989 DT200 (2 stroke dual sport). Liquid cooled, kick start, basically a liquid cooled Blaster 200 engine with a powervlave.

The Issue: Doesn’t run, just sputters, backfires and dies.

History: Was running mint. Non-starting issue was an intermittent problem, but it hasn’t been running for about 2 months now, so I think the problem’s here to stay. It will start up first kick, sputter for an exciting 5 seconds, backfire and die. Engine is non-responsive while it's doing it's 5 second sputtering routine.

What I’ve Checked/Done:

Compression: Running about 200psi.

Spark: Plenty of spark at the plug when I kick it over. Spark will jump a 7mm gap. Nice blue spark. New Spark plug.

Fuel: Rebuilt carb with stock jetting. New 94 octane gas. New Reeds.

Air: Cleaned air filter. No air leaks, no exhaust restrictions in pipe.

Power Value: clean powervalve and servo works perfectly.

Electrical: New and fully charged battery. Neutral and Side stand switches working.

Other: Thrown numerous wrenches across the floor. Surprisingly didn't fix the problem. Praying hasn't helped either.

Theories:

1. Bad CDI. Is there any way to check this?

2. Bad Coil/Stator: Maybe providing spark during starting, but nothing once running. Is there a way to check this?

3. The bike hates me.

My guess is electrical but I’ve cleaned, and tested more switches and connectors that I would like to admit to. Are there any other places I can look to diagnose? What would experts like yourselves try next?

Thanks for reading!!

it can b a simple thing empty the tank fill with fresh 2strock some 1 mite have played with it try it u mite b surprised good luck

[JimR]

it can b a simple thing empty the tank fill with fresh 2strock some 1 mite have played with it try it u mite b surprised good luck

What does this mean ? empty the oil tank and refresh with new oil ? or empty the fuel tank and add new fuel/oil mixture there ? I'm at a loss how either would help

Regards Jim

[Cynic]

Never being one to assume, what you are discribing could be caused from a bad fuel level or a slow feed, it fires initially cos there is just enough in the carb and then runs out.

Your description of a big fat spark and the fact that it fires first kick every time makes me think carb. I know you have done it but they are very sensitive and float height is especially critical on 'performance' strokers.

I could be wrong but most engine running probs are generally carb related. Most of the time when the ig goes up sh1t creek it just wont go at all.

[JimR]

Never being one to assume, what you are discribing could be caused from a bad fuel level or a slow feed, it fires initially cos there is just enough in the carb and then runs out.

Your description of a big fat spark and the fact that it fires first kick every time makes me think carb. I know you have done it but they are very sensitive and float height is especially critical on 'performance' strokers.

I could be wrong but most engine running probs are generally carb related. Most of the time when the ig goes up sh1t creek it just wont go at all.

Hi Cynic,

I'm not sure which post you are replying to (mine I guess not looking at the quote) but break down of pluse coil is not uncommon within this type of engine (assuming the DT200 is a UK DT125 with a big bore (from the factory)). But we dont have a full understanding of the fault so therefore you must follow the flow charts, it is possible to short cut them but you may get things wrong. by somewhat over complexing those charts. They should be followed correctly and the fault will be found ..YMJP employ people to make the flow charts (with input from their engineers). I can understand that as bits age the correct chart cannot be applied (In my experence most riders/owners tend to shortcut them) so I guess the pulse coil still needs to be addressed (if this goes out of spec the ignition timing goes out the window with either total stop or misfire) As the engine has old the carb could play a part in its demise but unless the carb is well minging I would doubt it, but the previous posts do show an electrical problem.

read the quote

History: Was running mint. Non-starting issue was an intermittent problem, but it hasn’t been running for about 2 months now, so I think the problem’s here to stay. It will start up first kick, sputter for an exciting 5 seconds, backfire and die. Engine is non-responsive while it's doing it's 5 second sputtering routine.

end quote

Regards Jim

[Cynic]

Hi Cynic,

I'm not sure which post you are replying to (mine I guess not looking at the quote) but break down of pluse coil is not uncommon within this type of engine (assuming the DT200 is a UK DT125 with a big bore (from the factory)). But we dont have a full understanding of the fault so therefore you must follow the flow charts, it is possible to short cut them but you may get things wrong. by somewhat over complexing those charts. They should be followed correctly and the fault will be found ..YMJP employ people to make the flow charts (with input from their engineers). I can understand that as bits age the correct chart cannot be applied (In my experence most riders/owners tend to shortcut them) so I guess the pulse coil still needs to be addressed (if this goes out of spec the ignition timing goes out the window with either total stop or misfire) As the engine has old the carb could play a part in its demise but unless the carb is well minging I would doubt it, but the previous posts do show an electrical problem.

read the quote

History: Was running mint. Non-starting issue was an intermittent problem, but it hasn’t been running for about 2 months now, so I think the problem’s here to stay. It will start up first kick, sputter for an exciting 5 seconds, backfire and die. Engine is non-responsive while it's doing it's 5 second sputtering routine.

end quote

Regards Jim

Fair point, Yamaha also assumed his bike would be scrap after about 6 years and it plainly isn't, time can be the cruelest master and what he has described is pretty much what my dt was doing a while back after it had stood through the summer, some petrol residue had screwed up the carb internal passageways in the choke and it took a lot more than most people class as a clean to clear all the tiny galleys. All it was was a little bit of shit bobbing around screwing the mix. Lean one minute rich the next. Fires on choke lovely then the mix goes lean, it farts about and dies.

If you want to be the only contributor to the jim forum fine, start one. It says Yamaha owners at the top of the page and thats what i am. We are'nt always right, but we try to help. And that is what its all about.

[JimR]

Fair point, Yamaha also assumed his bike would be scrap after about 6 years and it plainly isn't, time can be the cruelest master and what he has described is pretty much what my dt was doing a while back after it had stood through the summer, some petrol residue had screwed up the carb internal passageways in the choke and it took a lot more than most people class as a clean to clear all the tiny galleys. All it was was a little bit of shit bobbing around screwing the mix. Lean one minute rich the next. Fires on choke lovely then the mix goes lean, it farts about and dies.

If you want to be the only contributor to the jim forum fine, start one. It says Yamaha owners at the top of the page and thats what i am. We are'nt always right, but we try to help. And that is what its all about.

No problem I know that is correct (i.e we are here to help each other out) and perhaps my use of the english language is not the best have a look at this topic for instance, so perhaps I ought to tone down my language

Regards Jim

[88DT200]

No problem I know that is correct (i.e we are here to help each other out) and perhaps my use of the english language is not the best have a look at this topic for instance, so perhaps I ought to tone down my language

Regards Jim

Hey Guys,

Sounds like an interesting (marginally heated) conversation going on here. Thanks Jim and Cynic for your contributions. Your input is very much appreciated. As an update, I'm confident it's not carb related. My friend put the carb on his YZ250 and it ran perfectly all week (even went as far as installing the DT's slider, throttle cable and reed cage just to be sure...surprisingly everything fit). So that eliminates the carb issue. Fuel also flows freely from the tank so we're not looking at a fuel issue.

Just to clarify, is the pulse coil the same as the pick up coil? I'm assuming the pulse coil's not one of the 2 coils attached to the stator behind the flywheel. I found the resistance specs for the source, lighting and pick up coil - just want to make sure I'm testing the right component.

I'm not sure if the bike's the same as a DT125 with a bigger bore. With the exception of the cylinder/head it's exactly the same as a Blaster 4-wheeler....not sure if that helps or hinders. I think the DT230 is the closest counterpart.

Well looks like I have a date with an ohm meter and a pulse coil this weekend....not exactly the threesome I was hoping for but there's not much else to do here in Toronto than shovel snow.

Thanks again for your contributions, it's guys like yourselves that keep this forum interesting and helpful!!

'till the next update!

Jack

[JimR]

Hey Guys,

Sounds like an interesting (marginally heated) conversation going on here. Thanks Jim and Cynic for your contributions. Your input is very much appreciated. As an update, I'm confident it's not carb related. My friend put the carb on his YZ250 and it ran perfectly all week (even went as far as installing the DT's slider, throttle cable and reed cage just to be sure...surprisingly everything fit). So that eliminates the carb issue. Fuel also flows freely from the tank so we're not looking at a fuel issue.

Just to clarify, is the pulse coil the same as the pick up coil? I'm assuming the pulse coil's not one of the 2 coils attached to the stator behind the flywheel. I found the resistance specs for the source, lighting and pick up coil - just want to make sure I'm testing the right component.

I'm not sure if the bike's the same as a DT125 with a bigger bore. With the exception of the cylinder/head it's exactly the same as a Blaster 4-wheeler....not sure if that helps or hinders. I think the DT230 is the closest counterpart.

Well looks like I have a date with an ohm meter and a pulse coil this weekend....not exactly the threesome I was hoping for but there's not much else to do here in Toronto than shovel snow.

Thanks again for your contributions, it's guys like yourselves that keep this forum interesting and helpful!!

'till the next update!

Jack

Hi Jack

The pulse and pick up coil are the same unit, I guess just called different things on the other side of the pond !

if the white wire/red trace connects to the pickup coil we are on the right part ... I have seen some pics of the DT200 and the motor does look very simular to our DT125LC.

Regards Jim

[Cynic]

Hey Guys,

Sounds like an interesting (marginally heated) conversation going on here. Thanks Jim and Cynic for your contributions. Your input is very much appreciated. As an update, I'm confident it's not carb related. My friend put the carb on his YZ250 and it ran perfectly all week (even went as far as installing the DT's slider, throttle cable and reed cage just to be sure...surprisingly everything fit). So that eliminates the carb issue. Fuel also flows freely from the tank so we're not looking at a fuel issue.

Just to clarify, is the pulse coil the same as the pick up coil? I'm assuming the pulse coil's not one of the 2 coils attached to the stator behind the flywheel. I found the resistance specs for the source, lighting and pick up coil - just want to make sure I'm testing the right component.

I'm not sure if the bike's the same as a DT125 with a bigger bore. With the exception of the cylinder/head it's exactly the same as a Blaster 4-wheeler....not sure if that helps or hinders. I think the DT230 is the closest counterpart.

Well looks like I have a date with an ohm meter and a pulse coil this weekend....not exactly the threesome I was hoping for but there's not much else to do here in Toronto than shovel snow.

Thanks again for your contributions, it's guys like yourselves that keep this forum interesting and helpful!!

'till the next update!

Jack

No worries, without people prepared to stand stand up and be counted this forum would not be what it is. There are plenty of forums that only ever seem to talk about which oil or what tyres and won't even cosider telling someone something that may (shock) upset them,ZZZZZZZ.

Good to know you completely ruled out the carb, with good mechanics that only leaves ig. Take it away jim....

[JimR]

Well looks like I have a date with an ohm meter and a pulse coil this weekend....not exactly the threesome I was hoping for but there's not much else to do here in Toronto than shovel snow.

'till the next update!

Jack

well you pop round and see RUSH ... they live there .. they are an odd 3some but if you are going with your previous 3some ... make sure the ohm meter doesn't get on top ... thats nasty

Regards Jim

[88DT200]

Thanks for all the help folks. It's very much appreciated and at most times, entertaining to say the least. So here's the issue that I'm dealing with now:

The bike is still sputtering and then dying - but it will run perfectly at intermittently. Precicely the same time it dies, a 2 inch (5cm) spark fires between the bends in the expansion pipe right where it exits from the cylinder. The only thing that I can think could produce that kind of spark is the coil. I added a ground strap from the engine to the frame - didn't do anything. Checked virtually every connection and wire, no cracks and everything that's supposed to be grounded is grounded. I also repositioned the plug wire so it's no where near the frame and isn't close to any wires. I've checked the stator, coil and pickup resistances and they're well within spec. Brand new coil, plug cap and spark plug (gap checked and re-checked) none of which have any visible signs of cracks, wear or nicks. What am I missing here? Could a current be passing from the plug wire to the frame? Is there a way to add insulation to the plug wire?

It's a good thing it's not arcing inside the gas tank!

As always thanks for the comments folks.

[Just logging in to respond]

Hi there - I suspect you have sheared off the woodruff key and it will intermittently work.

I have see similar issues on a DT200 and a DT 175.

Just slide of the wheel and make sure its intact.

[Just logging in to respond]

Hi there - I suspect you have sheared off the woodruff key and it will intermittently work.

I have see similar issues on a DT200 and a DT 175.

Just slide of the wheel and make sure its intact.

The DT200 was mine and had the same symptoms described. I made up deveral keys from scrap but they kept shearing off so I got one through Yamaha - fixed.

Also the DT175 would actually start up and when you let the clutch out it would go backwards - the motor was running backwards.

[Just logging in to respond]

Is anyone still looking at this thread?

[87DT200]

I am kinda wondering myself. 

I have a DT 200 that spontaneously starts.

Ran for 900km and now problem. I  am hoping it was sediment in tank. 

I am finding it hard to get parts bike is great condition.  

[slice]

If your waiting for a reply DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!!! This thread is 7 years old FFS check the date before you drag up old posts.