o-ring chain, to lube or not to lube

[Guest Exupnutta]

Replace front and rear sprocket and chain AS A SET... ALWAYS!

By the time the chain is worn the sprockets are almost guaranteed to be worn too. You could use the old ones if you carefully measured them against new specs and they still matched, but it's more likely that they won't, and from what I've seen the low cost of replacement makes it not worth the chance (although some of us OLDER bike riders with steel sprockets may be more likely to have good sprockets when the chain wears out).

By ALWAYS I meant steel sprockets... I was talking about steel sprockets the whole time.

Reusing Aluminium sprockets is attempted suicide IMO.

[G-man]

...(although some of us OLDER bike riders with steel sprockets may be more likely to have good sprockets when the chain wears out).

What!!?, What are ya, crazy? Next thing, you'll be telling us that you kick dogs, trip blind people or something. You're nuts, nuts I tell ya!

Oh wait, my sprockets were also still good when I swapped the chain. Never mind then, I guess you're ok.

[Airhead]

Oh wait, my sprockets were also still good when I swapped the chain. Never mind then, I guess you're ok.

How do you know that then G man?, you mean because they looked ok?

Lets make a few assumptions here, A new chain has 12.00mm between its roller centres, a new sprocket has 12.00mm betwee the leading and the trailing edges of its teeth...So everything fits perfectly!

Now when the chain wears the 12.00mm between its rollers becomes 12.05mm and the sprocket wears at the same rate, (Although it still looks Fine to the eye)ie 12.05 between its leading and trailing edges. So if you now replace that chain there will be only one roller touching one tooth on the sprocket, the next roller along will miss the tooth by 0.05mm, further up 0.1mm and so on.

Because this 'New' chain is putting all the power through one roller it rapidly wears until it has worn to 12.05mm between rollers, at which point the wear rate will slow down as the chain comes into contact with the other teeth and shares the load again.

End of story, Pay now!!

[G-man]

How do you know that then G man?, you mean because they looked ok?

Lets make a few assumptions here, A new chain has 12.00mm between its roller centres, a new sprocket has 12.00mm betwee the leading and the trailing edges of its teeth...So everything fits perfectly!

Yes, everything fits perfectly when you bolt on your shiny new sprockets and strap on that brand spanking new chain. And then, you take your first ride. Ok, maybe the second or third ride. It's then when you get back home, you have to prop up your bike, loosen your rear wheel, and back it up a nudge to take up the slack of the now stretched (or worn, however you wanna define it) chain. That's when things start to not fit perfectly. And worse, the stretching continues, requiring yet more adjustment.

By your logic, this imperfect mating between sprocket and chain roller is entirely unacceptable, requiring not chain adjustment, but rather immediate replacement of both chain and sprockets. So, looks like you pay up first, haha.

[Live to ride Ride to live]

Yes, everything fits perfectly when you bolt on your shiny new sprockets and strap on that brand spanking new chain. And then, you take your first ride. Ok, maybe the second or third ride. It's then when you get back home, you have to prop up your bike, loosen your rear wheel, and back it up a nudge to take up the slack of the now stretched (or worn, however you wanna define it) chain. That's when things start to not fit perfectly. And worse, the stretching continues, requiring yet more adjustment.

By your logic, this imperfect mating between sprocket and chain roller is entirely unacceptable, requiring not chain adjustment, but rather immediate replacement of both chain and sprockets. So, looks like you pay up first, haha.

What the ... are you on about, I fit a new chain and sprocket set a month ago (3000 miles), hasnt needed adjusting since fitting. You must be doing something wrong....

[G-man]

Well, I'm exaggerating a little, yes. My point is, if the slightest variation between chain and sprocket was so disastrous, we wouldn't be readjusting chain slack, but rather replacing the whole shebang at the first sign of it.

[Airhead]

Yes, everything fits perfectly when you bolt on your shiny new sprockets and strap on that brand spanking new chain. And then, you take your first ride. Ok, maybe the second or third ride. It's then when you get back home, you have to prop up your bike, loosen your rear wheel, and back it up a nudge to take up the slack of the now stretched (or worn, however you wanna define it) chain. That's when things start to not fit perfectly. And worse, the stretching continues, requiring yet more adjustment.

By your logic, this imperfect mating between sprocket and chain roller is entirely unacceptable, requiring not chain adjustment, but rather immediate replacement of both chain and sprockets. So, looks like you pay up first, haha.

Absolute bollox G man, you just dont get it do you, the new chain fits the new sprockets perfectly, Youre exagerating on chain adjustment every ride...maybe second ride... but there again you dont lube your chain, just WD40 it so perhaps its true in your case... The worn chain still fits the equally worn sprocket perfectly, when it doesnt fit is when new meets worn

[Airhead]

Well, I'm exaggerating a little, yes. My point is, if the slightest variation between chain and sprocket was so disastrous, we wouldn't be readjusting chain slack, but rather replacing the whole shebang at the first sign of it.

No No No No No, The point is twofold

1) We adjust slack to stop the chain from jumping off

2) We adjust slack to compensate for wear so we get more use from it all...It does affter all cost money

[G-man]

Absolute bollox G man, you just dont get it do you, the new chain fits the new sprockets perfectly, Youre exagerating on chain adjustment every ride...maybe second ride... but there again you dont lube your chain, just WD40 it so perhaps its true in your case... The worn chain still fits the equally worn sprocket perfectly, when it doesnt fit is when new meets worn

Your sprocket is a solid chunk of metal. Your chain is composed of linked components. It's elemental my dear Dr. Watson, your chain and sprockets will not match up perfectly soon after the first ride because of their variations in tensile strength.

When you have to take up the slack in your chain, that's merely when this variation become evident to the naked eye, which is usually far beyond 0.05mm, 0.1mm, whatever.

[G-man]

2) We adjust slack to compensate for wear so we get more use from it all...It does affter all cost money

Huh? What's that? I don't think I heard you right.

[Live to ride Ride to live]

Well, I'm exaggerating a little, yes. My point is, if the slightest variation between chain and sprocket was so disastrous, we wouldn't be readjusting chain slack, but rather replacing the whole shebang at the first sign of it.

If you replaced the chain and sprockets at the same time, the wear rate would be the same, so the chain would be fitting the sprockets perfectly when it is at the correct taughtness. Depending how you treat your chain and sprockets, either shortens there lifespan (Dry non lubed0 or keeps you going for longer (grubby lubbed).

[stonesie]

Out in the snow earlier this year . normally i would wash down the bike and relube the chain. i was going away for a week, rushing about forgot to relube chain . came back did mi pre ride checks noticed tight link!!!said to myself "i'll replace it next weekend (with sprockets!)" accelerating hard to about 70mph off the power on the brakes and the SNAP!

,

YAMMAHA wanted £700 for a new swinging arm about £400 plus for plastics ect not to mention the hole in my leathers and mi arse cheek!! if i had had a pasenger on they would probably have lost there leg!! ive certainly learn't my lesson PROPER CHECKS AND MAINTAINANCE A MUST!

[Live to ride Ride to live]

Exerp from an online Bike maintanence guru.

tried-and-true chain and sprocket system. This type of system must be lubricated and adjusted, and the chain stretches and the sprockets wear, requiring periodic replacements. I've read reports of chains lasting 20,000 miles or more, and I don't doubt it, considering the capabilities of modern O-ring chain design and with proper attention paid to lubrication and adjustments.

Most of my bikes over the last decade or so have been shaft drive, and although I didn't have to worry about chain and sprocket maintenance, there were another whole set of issues to address. Shaft drive devotees would like you to believe that their method of propulsion is maintenance-free, but that's a pipe dream. Splines need to be lubricated, gear oils changed and sometimes very expensive parts like universal joints need replacing. If you're ever been involved in a spline lube on a BMW "K" bike, you know what I mean. Never again for me!

I'd just as soon spray some lube on a chain every few hundred miles, and I have this weird compulsion to take things apart and put them back together to see how everything is getting on. I actually like doing routine maintenance tasks, because it gives me "touch time" with my bike.

Wikipedia.........WIki link..its lubed...

[G-man]

If you replaced the chain and sprockets at the same time, the wear rate would be the same, so the chain would be fitting the sprockets perfectly when it is at the correct taughtness.

That's....not logical.

[Live to ride Ride to live]

Gearing ........and lubing for you Richard....

[Airhead]

So, let's hear some counterpoints.

This is how you started this thread, And with our experience and knowlege we have given you the answers you wanted

However since you are clearly not interested in the answers, but are far more interested in the argument I think you must be either

a) Correct (Making us all incorrect)

A wind up merchant (Troll)

c) Stupid

My money is on b or c

[Airhead]

So, let's hear some counterpoints.

This is how you started this thread, And with our experience and knowlege we have given you the answers you wanted

However since you are clearly not interested in the answers, but are far more interested in the argument I think you must be either

a.) Correct (Making us all incorrect)

b.) A wind up merchant (Troll)

c.) Stupid

My money is on b or c

[Guest Exupnutta]

This is how you started this thread, And with our experience and knowlege we have given you the answers you wanted

However since you are clearly not interested in the answers, but are far more interested in the argument I think you must be either

a.) Correct (Making us all incorrect)

b.) A wind up merchant (Troll)

c.) Stupid

My money is on b or c

[G-man]

This is how you started this thread, And with our experience and knowlege we have given you the answers you wanted

However since you are clearly not interested in the answers, but are far more interested in the argument I think you must be either

a.) Correct (Making us all incorrect)

b.) A wind up merchant (Troll)

c.) Stupid

My money is on b or c

Wow, harsh toke, I'm stupid and/or a troll coz I disagree with you? Oh ok, that's brilliant thinking in itself. By same logic, that would make you a stupid troll coz you disagree with me, lolz.

That's the thing about conversations see, I don't have to necessarily play yes-man to you just because I welcome and encourage other points of view to be presented, my good man. But hey, if you make a better attempt at a logical argument, who knows, it may happen.

[G-man]

An example of a logical argument, from a Ducati website:

Is WD-40 safe to use on your chain?

Yes, All motorcycle chains currently being manufactured use Buna-N (Nitrile) rubber for their o-rings and x-rings, and all these manufacturers recommend kerosene as a cleaner.

Here's the formulation of WD-40:

80% Stoddard Solvent (that is similar to kerosene)

20% light lubricating oil, and a bit of fragrance.

Here's the compatibility of Stoddard Solvent with rubbers and plastics:

Good Compatibility (OK for both static and dynamic seals)

Buna-N (Nitrile)

Chemraz

Epichlorohydrin

Fluorocarbon

Fluorosilicone

Kalrez

Nitrile, hydrogenated

Polyacrylate

Teflon, virgin

Mixed Compatibility (OK for static seals, but not for dynamic seals)

Neoprene

Vamac

Fair Compatibility (OK for some static seals)

Polysulfide

Polyurethane, millable

Poor Compatibility

Butyl

Ethylene-Propylene

Hypalon

Natural rubber

Silicone

Styrene Butadiene

Consequently, WD-40 is safe and effective as a chain cleaner and corrosion inhibitor.

Link:

http://www.efunda.com/designstandard...dard%20Solvent

If you clean with a soft brush and WD-40, and plan to follow-up with a chain lube, you can reduce chain lube sling-off if you first remove the oil residue that WD-40 leaves. This residue seems to prevent some chain lube formulations from sticking well to the chain.

Should I also use a chain lube afterwards?

The answer depends on whether external chain lubrication is beneficial for a chain with internal grease sealed with o-rings, and perhaps how often you clean your chain.

One school-of-thought believes that no additional lubrication is needed. The other believes that the sprocket and chain surfaces that do not have permanent grease also need to be lubricated.

The chain manufacturers tell us that also lubricating the chain and sprocket surfaces will extend the life of these components. But a chain lube will sling-off unless designed to stick to the chain, so it needs to stay tacky. Consequently, it will also attract grit and road debris that, in turn, will accelerate wear faster than if you just have a clean unlubricated chain. Chain lube will also reduce power losses due to friction and shed water that leads to rust (and wear). If you live in a wet climate, you should probably use chain lube to prevent rust.

A chain newly-cleaned with WD-40 will have a coat of light oil that will effectively displace water and reduce surface corrosion of the links. It's a low viscosity oil so any excess will sling off easily, but will attract very little grit - much less that any chain lube - and it will have the same rolling friction as a number of chain lubes on the market.

WD-40, used as a one-step cleaner and lubricant is sufficient. Because it is a light oil, some fling-off will occur, so any excess should be wiped-off. USED REGULARLY, it provides good corrosion protection, low (but not the lowest) rolling resistance, and attracts less road grit than waxy chain lubes. So your chain stays very clean.

If you aren't inclined to clean and lube your chain regularly, or often ride in wet conditions that promote corrosion, there are chain lubes on the market that are designed to stick to your chain to resist fling-off and provide longer-lasting corrosion protection. Some remain tacky and attract grit, some stay slippery to the touch. All of them need to cleaned off and renewed at some point.

If you’ve decided to use chain lube after cleaning your chain, then it’s best to use straight kerosene as your cleaner because the light oil that WD-40 contains will make it difficult for the chain lube to stay attached without flinging-off.