o-ring chain, to lube or not to lube

[G-man]

Here's an actual case study of effects of WD-40 on o-rings for the fear mongers who scream, "aaaaarghhh, WD-40 will break down your o-rings, laddy!!!":

A perennial question for those of us who like to clean our chains with WD40 is: does WD40 do damage to the rubber o-ring?

I've heard enough guys say "I've been cleaning my o-ring chains with WD40 since 1815 and I've never had a problem" (or something to that effect) that I've just gone ahead and used WD40 on my chains and not worried about it.

But last month, I found myself sitting in the garage with an o-ring, some WD40, and a camera -- and I conceived of a grand test that would NOT answer the question once and for all. But I figured I'd do it anyway.

I would soak an o-ring in WD40 for a month and see what happened.

Here's the WD40:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9180/HPIM1018.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1018.jpg)

On February 18, 2008, I took an o-ring from a Regina master link and put it in a little pool of WD40.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3412/HPIM1015.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1015.jpg) (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1016.jpg) (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1017.jpg)

I checked on the o-ring a couple of days later. It looked fine. It hadn't dissolved or anything.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4843/HPIM1021.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1021.jpg) (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1025.jpg)

After the o-ring had been soaking in the WD40 for over a week, I pulled it out and checked on its elasticity. As far as I could tell, the rubber was holding up well. After being stretched out, it returned to its original shape just fine. I then freshened up the WD40 and left the o-ring to soak some more.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7853/HPIM1030.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1030.jpg) (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1031.jpg) (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1032.jpg) (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HPIM1035.jpg)

Tonight I realized it had been about a month that the little o-ring had been soaking in WD40. Time to put this "experiment" to an end. I stretched the o-ring out again to see if it had lost any of its elasticity or if it would deform. From what I could tell, the little o-ring was just fine after nearly 30 full days soaking in WD40.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/802/hpim1053br6.th.jpg (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpim1053br6.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpim1054kz9.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpim1055fq5.jpg)

So if the function of the o-rings in an o-ring chain is to keep water and dirt off the roller pins and to hold the grease in place, it looks like the o-ring rubber is not affected by WD40 in a way that would inhibit it from doing its job. And, of course, if you're wiping your chain down with a WD40 soaked rag or even spraying the chain directly with WD40, the exposure of the o-rings to WD40 is nowhere near what the o-ring in this little test was exposed to.

You too can have this kind of fun by devising your own o-ring tests and posting the results online. Now that I think of it, I find myself very curious about the effects of a propane torch flame on o-ring rubber. Would it last a month?

[G-man]

Before we get into all the how's and why's of the job, I need to first state that many shops will tell you that you need to replace your chain and sprockets at the same time, every time. This is incorrect information. If you replace your chain before its completely worn out, you're sprockets should be just fine. The old rule of thumb is two chains to one set of sprockets. You only really need to replace your sprockets when they show signs of wear. On a side note, I've been doing this for hundreds of thousands of miles on my bikes and have never had any problems from doing this.

http://www.canyonchasers.net/shop/generic/chain-rplc.php

[G-man]

lolz, you're funny. I bet as a kid, you took your ball and went home alot, haha.

Anyways, methinks these bike maintenance formulas of always swapping sprockets with chains and smothering the chains in goop no matter the circumstances are geared for the lowest common denominator. It's dummy-proof, no thinking required.

[Airhead]

OK this is what I do...When the chain needs a re lube I shock horror Spray WD40 on a rag, not on the chain, And use this to clean the chain rollers and side links. When its all clean and shiny i then spray on my chosen chain lube. What im trying to say here is that WD40 used sensibly is not the demon its being portrayed as IMHO

lolz, you're funny. I bet as a kid, you took your ball and went home alot, haha.

Anyways, methinks these bike maintenance formulas of always swapping sprockets with chains and smothering the chains in goop no matter the circumstances are geared for the lowest common denominator. It's dummy-proof, no thinking required.

G man, as i said earlier I personally use WD40 sprayed on a rag to clean my chain then Lube it, I will get a lot of mileage from my chain by looking after it this way (20,000 i expect), and if ive still got the bike when it eventually wears out I will be happy to replace both chain and sprockets, BTW I dont give a toss if you think this is wrong, or dummy proof, no thinking...No wonder people ignore you

[Live to ride Ride to live]

lolz, you're funny. I bet as a kid, you took your ball and went home alot, haha.

Anyways, methinks these bike maintenance formulas of always swapping sprockets with chains and smothering the chains in goop no matter the circumstances are geared for the lowest common denominator. It's dummy-proof, no thinking required.

So...what ARE you getting at here?

Anyway, if you believed everything you read on the internet, youd be a nutter, there are many reasons for and against using lube on chains (plenty of twaddle on the net to substantiate the evidence), some we have posted here. As for the thinking bit, Im too busy riding my bikes to bother with thinking about wether your right or wrong. With my tried method of using the chain and sprockets till I cant get anymore use out of them...ie when the sprocket looks like a 5 sided coin and the chain is sliding around, then I will change both, not the two chains to one set of sprockets. Ill stick to my thoughts as thats how I see fit, Its not let me down over the 300,000+ miles I have done in the last 3 years. ....

Have fun......

[Biker Bird]

Whoa guys getting pretty hot in this debate! I would like to say thank you though as i did used to spray WD-40 on my chain instead of chain lube ooops! I dont really know my stuff on bikes unlike you lot( im learning and thats one reason why im on here and to ask advice). I have just had a new chain on my Yam TW please tell me how to keep it clean and lubed? I ride my bike nearly everyday and i have horses so it gets covered in mud,water etc and its impossible for it to stay clean,it ends up with a black layer of crap that sticks to the lube and is really greasy, also which chain lube is best? thanks!

[G-man]

Whoa guys getting pretty hot in this debate! I would like to say thank you though as i did used to spray WD-40 on my chain instead of chain lube ooops! I dont really know my stuff on bikes unlike you lot( im learning and thats one reason why im on here and to ask advice). I have just had a new chain on my Yam TW please tell me how to keep it clean and lubed? I ride my bike nearly everyday and i have horses so it gets covered in mud,water etc and its impossible for it to stay clean,it ends up with a black layer of crap that sticks to the lube and is really greasy, also which chain lube is best? thanks!

Hey B-Bird. Well, I don't know what has some of these dudes' panties in a bind with the juvenile hissy fits and all, but I will tell you this, virtually ALL the arguments I've read online and heard in person against using wd-40 to clean and even lube the chain (provided you do it alot, like every few rides or so...boohoo, 5 minutes of work, I know, it's soooo hard \sacrasm mode off) were entirely anecdotal. None of those fools actually tried it, just merely repeat the same ol' bullshit they heard from some other dude. Same story with swapping sprockets with chains no matter the condition of the current sprockets.

It works, it keeps your chain clean, the minimal amount that penetrates the sides of the o-rings keeps them slippery against the rollers and side plates, everything's fine, the world keeps spinning, the grass keeps growing, those that use it report a long life of both chain and sprocket, yadda yadda. And btw, if your chain regularly gets grimy from the road, you'd have to be retarded to smother it in grease (or wax, whatever) only to encourage yet more chain crustiness in road crapolla which for sure WILL add to the wear on your chain and sprocks.

Go back and read the back and forth, there's little these guys are actually effectively refuting me about.

[Cy Welch]

Hey B-Bird. Well, I don't know what has some of these dudes' panties in a bind with the juvenile hissy fits and all, but I will tell you this, virtually ALL the arguments I've read online and heard in person against using wd-40 to clean and even lube the chain (provided you do it alot, like every few rides or so...boohoo, 5 minutes of work, I know, it's soooo hard \sacrasm mode off) were entirely anecdotal. None of those fools actually tried it, just merely repeat the same ol' bullshit they heard from some other dude. Same story with swapping sprockets with chains no matter the condition of the current sprockets.

It works, it keeps your chain clean, the minimal amount that penetrates the sides of the o-rings keeps them slippery against the rollers and side plates, everything's fine, the world keeps spinning, the grass keeps growing, those that use it report a long life of both chain and sprocket, yadda yadda. And btw, if your chain regularly gets grimy from the road, you'd have to be retarded to smother it in grease (or wax, whatever) only to encourage yet more chain crustiness in road crapolla which for sure WILL add to the wear on your chain and sprocks.

Go back and read the back and forth, there's little these guys are actually effectively refuting me about.

I can't speak to o-ring chains since mine is a traditional chain, however when I got the bike in 85, it had 14,400 miles on it and it now has just shy of 50,000 miles on it. I think the chain had been replaced before I got the bike, but I'm not sure and the original owner (my uncle) doesn't remember at this point, but I still have the same chain on it that was on it when I bought it. That's somewhere around 36,000 miles that I KNOW are on this chain and it's still working fine with minimal stretch/wear and the sprockets still look good. I have NEVER in it's life removed the chain to do a thourough cleaning, but have merely used a good quality chain lube and every few thousand miles use a thinner lube to rinse the chain and get the gunk off. I figure I will probably get at least a few more thousand miles out of the chain and sprockets and based purely on age I plan on changing the sprockets at the same time (oem steel ones though). A lot of modern bikes have aluminum sprockets now though, so for those bikes changing them with the chain makes sense.

[Live to ride Ride to live]

Even superbike riders and road racers use lubrication on thier machines. Dosnt that speak loudly enough......

Im not against using WD40 for the little wipe down, as OGOB has said (he uses a little on a cloth to wipe the chain over a little), but what doesnt make sense is that even though its highly spoke about in maintanence manuals to use some sort of lubrication, be it a gear oil, or a waxy type spray, you still insist that using just purely WD40 on a chain will be fine. Maybe for you, but for many out there, lubrication is the key, as I said before, even superbike riders use chain lubrication.

Remember what WD40 was invented for...

WD-40 was developed by the military in the 50s as a rust preventative solvent and de-greaser to protect missile parts. It quickly became a household item when people discovered it had thousands of other uses as a cleaner, rust-prevention agent, squeek-stopper and more. It also works wonders as a light lubricant on small items like hinges, locks, and toys.

Motorcycle chains, on the other hand, are far too heavy and fast-moving for the lubricating power of WD-40 to have any effect at all. As a matter of fact, WD-40 will actually strip away any existing lubricant and leave your drivetrain dry - metal on metal. Basically, spraying this stuff on your chain is worse than using no lubricant at all!

If after all our discussion, you still keep provoking more responses, I would agree that you may be just here to get a rise out of people. Its neither adult or clever.

[G-man]

You know what pal, at this point, I'm on this thread merely to kick your ass with a superior argument, just for fun.

So, here goes...take it with a stiff upper lip, ole chap:

A. Show me a "superbike rider and road racer" who lubes his chain, and I'll show you one who cleans his final drive a hell of alot more than you! Like, a buttload more. And, do you know why, oh gatekeeper of message board threads? Coz a lubricant which picks up dirt becomes an ABRASIVE, einstein.

B. Regarding your hysterical tear-filled cries, "aaaaaaarrrgghhhh, WD-40 will kill your bike and impregnate your girlfriend!"

From WD-40's very own website, official use for their product:

1. Cleans motorcycle chains
   
2. Lubricates motorcycle chains
   

http://www.wd40.com/uses-tips/

But hey, maybe you should inform them that you're a bigger authority on the subject.

C. This is one of the most viewed threads on this forum, so I think it's safe to say that people are indeed interested in what I have to say. Which I guess, yes, makes me clever.

D. Your avatar is fitting, coz some of youz here seem to subscribe to the concept, lolz.

[Live to ride Ride to live]

You know what pal, at this point, I'm on this thread merely to kick your ass with a superior argument, just for fun.

So, here goes...take it with a stiff upper lip, ole chap:

A. Show me a "superbike rider and road racer" who lubes his chain, and I'll show you one who cleans his final drive a hell of alot more than you! Like, a buttload more. And, do you know why, oh gatekeeper of message board threads? Coz a lubricant which picks up dirt becomes an ABRASIVE, einstein.

B. Regarding your hysterical tear-filled cries, "aaaaaaarrrgghhhh, WD-40 will kill your bike and impregnate your girlfriend!"

From WD-40's very own website, official use for their product:

1. Cleans motorcycle chains
   
2. Lubricates motorcycle chains
   

http://www.wd40.com/uses-tips/

But hey, maybe you should inform them that you're a bigger authority on the subject.

C. This is one of the most viewed threads on this forum, so I think it's safe to say that people are indeed interested in what I have to say. Which I guess, yes, makes me clever.

D. Your avatar is fitting, coz some of youz here seem to subscribe to the concept, lolz.

No pal of mine thankyou. So I see still trying to get a rise from people. Thier really isnt any need for your childish posts.

We could beat this thing out for years to come, but there is no right or wrong, Im just merely stating what I use and that it works for me.

[Guest Exupnutta]

No pal of mine thankyou. So I see still trying to get a rise from people. Thier really isnt any need for your childish posts.

We could beat this thing out for years to come, but there is no right or wrong, Im just merely stating what I use and that it works for me.

Just leave him be, he obviously has issues... I will say no more on the matter

I have WORK to do, so I don't have time for a pointless debate about who can spend more time searching the internet for so called wisdom.

[G-man]

...there is no right or wrong, Im just merely stating what I use and that it works for me.

Haha, holy backpedaling, batman!

Ok then, I guess that means that I'm NOT wrong, eh? Is that what you're saying after all them posts? Man up, dude.

[Live to ride Ride to live]

Haha, holy backpedaling, batman!

Ok then, I guess that means that I'm NOT wrong, eh? Is that what you're saying after all them posts? Man up, dude.

It means you are neither right or wrong. As for `man up dude`....in english please.

[G-man]

It means you are neither right or wrong. As for `man up dude`....in english please.

Well, translated into your british english, it means to stop being a wanker, admit that you were one, and sin no more.

Hey Cy, those steel sprockets last a long time, I agree. Most of my buddies who ride are on older bikes, I don't think any of them had to swap out the sprocks, yet. Probably, the fact that there's less drag on sprockets from a standard chain has something to do with it. Hey, a new argument!!! Sealed chains extend chain life, but wear down sprockets faster. Who wants to fight? I double dog dare ya.

[Goff]

No need to get personal.

You asked for opinions - you got them - you tore them to pieces in a rather arrogant way and have now resorted to personal insults.

If you think WD-40 is the dogs bollox for everything then go ahead and use it as you see fit.

You have been given nothing but sound advice here, if you dont agree with it - fine - you dont have to - but deliberately winding folk up will not do you any favours.- i suggest you wind your neck in and behave.

[G-man]

Yes, Ma'am!

With that sig pic, I wouldn't want your wrath, haha.

[Beezkneez]

(moderator mode on)

Guys! let's try and keep away from personal insults, it will only lead to the thread been deleted and nobody wants that when a GOOD debate is ongoing. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and collective knowledge is so much more useful than My method is better than YOUR method, nobody comes out a winner. I see good points in everybody's argument and maybe using BOTH or ALL will help everybody.

[chrisw]

Regardless of what WD40 may say on it's website, I'm pretty sure that that will have been wrote well before the modern high powered high reving engines on todays Sports bikes and as such doesn't include such bikes in the claim. It's probably fine for some little chuggalong but not for an R1 or R6 etc, unless you've got yourself in a situation where it's better than nothing at all.

I ride my R6 all weathers including the Snow (when we get it), and wouldn't be without a proper chain lube. Any crap that is picked up doesn't stick unless you've let your chain get crudded up with old grease.

I probably go OTT when I clean my clean my chain, I always use parrafin and a toothbrush, and about once a month clean in all the nooks and crannies of the chain (only a cold chain) and then let it spin in gear on a paddock stand and douse the sprockets/chain in fresh cold water this clears any muck left on. I then leave it running at above tickover for a few mins to let the water fling off. After it's dried I then give it a moderate application of a Dry chain lube. Then every week I lube the chain again immediatley after riding the bike as the heat in the chain melts the lube slightly allows it to seep past the x rings lubing the internal rollers. I get about 20k to a chain even with the attack of winter road salt.

Now if I tried to do that and lubed it purely with WD, I'd have tight links before you knew it. O or X rings do not seal the rollers 100% so using a decent lube on a warm chain makes perfect sense.

If you believe WD40 to be so good would you put it in your car engine instead of a proper engine oil !

But it won't work for long as the heat will breakdown the WD40 rendering it useless.

As for the chain and sprocket debate, fitting a new chain to old sprokets will allow the chain to have to much for and aft movement as it sits on the sprocket because the gap betwen the teeth of the worn sprockets will be greater than the width of the roller on the chain, under power you may not notice this, but, unless you've got your chain to tight you'd notice it when backing off the throttle as the chain moves to the other side of the trough, this will increase wear in your already worn sprocket and your new chain, and cause unsmooth transitions between on and off throttle.

But if non of what we say is of interest to you then feel free to continue usng WD40 and replacing sprockets and chains at different times, and I hope that you're lucky enough not to suffer a drive train failure.

[Guest Exupnutta]

Agree with everything you said except the parafin part. Parafin causes rubber to swell (trust me I've cleaned enough parts in Parafin parts washers). I would suggest using a degreaser rather than parafin, as the swelling from parafin also causes the rubber to become softer and therefore prone to damage.

I have NO INTEREST IN WINNING ANY ARGUMENTS here.

My concern is for the young and inexperienced riders. Clean & Lube your chains regularly