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Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:

1. Jesus Christ

2. The Canadian Soldier.

3. The British Soldier.

4. The US Soldier, and

5. The Australian Soldier

One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom.

you notice they all have British ancestry..

Makes me feel sick the abuse these people get.. its horrible. My Grandads were navy and their dads before them. Unfortuanlty i couldnt join the armed forces for medical reasons and when i found out. ( by not passing medical ) i was ona downer for WEEKS..

Some people ( and not the some becasue it is very easy to tar people with the same brush ). Are just parasites who will scam all they can and give so little back..

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Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:

1. Jesus Christ

...........

you notice they all have British ancestry..

Erm, I think there is a possibility that JC may not have been British (given that we were a buch of disperate hords at the time - you caould say nothings changed, but hey hoy!), assuming of course you believe the text of a book written 300 years after his death, presided over by an emperor who was clinging to the last threads of power, and generally accepted as being 'incomplete' at best........

My 14 yr old daughter said something to me over the weekend that made me wonder,

"Why is it that all these terrorists are Muslim?", to which I replied - "yes but not all muslims are terrorists", "how do we tell the difference?"

So how do you, the cold hard truth is that you don't, human nature would dictate that you take a safe option and tar everyone with the same brush - so in the end the normal average populus will treat all easyily identifiable groups (black, white, Catholic, Muslim, Buddist, French, English, German, American etc) as a single collection. and we descend into god knows what.

The only people who can stop the radicals extremists, are the middle of the road guys. We will never stop it with the bomb or the bullet, it just galvanises people - The Nazis tried it in WW2 and to this day people still reffer to the 'Spirit of the Blitz'. In Afganistan the British tried to subdue the country in the 1800's and failed, the Russians had a go, now we're back having another go. The change has to come from within.

I read a book a while back called 'Al-Qaeda' by Jason Burke which investigates the whole radical Islam thing. It's heavy going but had George Bush actually learned to read, and read it then he might have considered his actions before the 2001 attacks (which, contrary to popular belief a reprisal to US Policy). That said, if Blair managed to extract his head from Mr Bush's darker regions we (the Brits) may have actually realised we could never win agianst this with the lives of those who chose to defend this country aginst it foes. When you have countries defined by geographical borders fighting a foe who's borders are defined by ideology it is impossible to win.

Does anyone remember the 'peace march' prior to the invasion of Iraq ? I witnesed this, it was a sight to see (I have to point out I wasn't involved in it, although it did make me laugh to find them fighting each other around Leicester Sq later the same day!), our Governemt chose to ignor the views of the people, then managed to avoid impeachment, or any kind of investigation as a result of misleading the very same public - Change has to come from boths sides of the line, we have an unelected Prime Minister, what does that say about a once proud nation?

Our servicemen and women choose to protect our rights and liberties against our foes, the governemt dictates who those foes are, and we have a say in who that government is. So ultimatly we the voting public controll where these people will lay down thier lives, in our name. If that raises some emotion in you remember that emotion next time you are at the ballot box and you are deciding what is important to you.

Hate filled 'right of expression' has no place in a any democracy. We need to change the system that protects the rights of the majority, not a vile subsection of a minority. If this situation had been mirrored in any one of the Islamic countries the outcome would have been very different indeed. What upsets me the most is the fact the the Police chose to allow these putrid individuals to spout thier hate filled bile. The leader was interviewd on TVAM the next day (and I like Kate Garroway, I think she's a bit of a fox IMHO) and to be honest he had another easy ride. He proffesed to be British, being born in this country but in every sentence he reffered to 'the British', this is the problem, idiological beliefs but with a geographical nationality.

without religion, what else would we fight wars over..........

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So how do you, the cold hard truth is that you don't, human nature would dictate that you take a safe option and tar everyone with the same brush - so in the end the normal average populus will treat all easyily identifiable groups (black, white, Catholic, Muslim, Buddist, French, English, German, American etc) as a single collection. and we descend into god knows what.

That is human nature, though.

Everyone sees it that way - It's how we instinctively tell friend from foe.

Like Us vs Not Like Us.

It exists everywhere someone has something about them that distinguishes them from others, be it skin colour, physical build, choice of music, football shirt, hairstyle, wealth or even choice of motorcycle.

we have an unelected Prime Minister

I thought that when we voted for Tony (or not, as the case is), the idea was that Brown is the back-up that's supposed to step in if Tony leaves? We vote for the party and the leader gets the PM role? His second takes over if neccesary.

without religion, what else would we fight wars over..........

Everything else.

Oil, land, crops, marriage, racial supremacy, freedom, slavery......

Personally, I'd rather be fighting aliens, but that's just because I want a Pulse Rifle!!

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I thought that when we voted for Tony (or not, as the case is), the idea was that Brown is the back-up that's supposed to step in if Tony leaves? We vote for the party and the leader gets the PM role? His second takes over if neccesary.

Nope.

Mr Brown, as you'll remember was the Chancillor of the Exchequer. Two Jags Prescot was the Deputy PM. In point of fact you are right as we actually only vote for a single MP, the party leader is voted for by the MP's (or in Labours case the Unions!), but would as many people have voted Labour if Brown was in charge rather than Tony ?

I'm still correct though, Brown has no mandate from the people - he has power by default, very dangerous......

Merv - yes, it's good to see isn't it. Like Armistice Day when all the Old Soldiers struggle out of thier death beds to show rememberance for those friends they lost. They are the people who make this country, full of moral fibre as they would have said years ago.

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So why the fuck didn't Prescot take over when Tony resigned? :huh:

This is why I find politics confusing. It's too political!!

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So why the fuck didn't Prescot take over when Tony resigned? :huh:

This is why I find politics confusing. It's too political!!

Thankfully, he resigned too.

Politics, people who want power are the very people that shouldn't have it. Lets get back to some good old'e world moaning.....

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Right, just to add my two pence...

I feel that the way this topic has grown, and the way its headed is slightly unfair..

Personally, I'm a Muslim.. I have friends who are Christian, Hindu and Sikh, and many many other religions..

I DISAGREE with the scumbags that deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth, yes, those who u lot were mentioning about. they are wrong, and are nothing short of backwards-single-minded b*stards!!

There are people out there, fighting, risking thier lives, for freedom and justice, and to get rid of ignorance and to pursue a decent world!! These brave young servicemen and servicewomen, deserve a warm welcome, not some silly tw*ts who claim to be Muslim, humiliating them and taking the piss.

However, I feel that the way some people have talked about "Muslims" in this thread, is slightly unacceptable..

Sorry, I'm not picking a fight with anybody, nor would I like to, but just would like to say that these tw*ts you see and hear about on the news, are not the people the Mulsim population in general would like to relate to.. These idiots, do not follow what Islam teaches, having studied my religion for a very long time, I can say this is as a matter of fact, AGAINST prophetic traditions!!

These b*stards have nothing better to do, and unfortunately all Muslims are held resposnsible!!

I actually don't blame y'all for saying what u said, because I'd say the same thing if I was in your position.. The only people to blame are the small minority, who seem to think that they can disrupt our lives!!!

Hope this message doesn't offend, I have tried to be as honest as possible, and wanted to get my point across to you all.. Please feel free to comment, but please do not offend Muslims as a whole. I know, some are twats, and do not deserve to be called human, but I assure you, not all of us are like that. Im sure that many of you have come across Muslims in your day-to-day lives, do they seem like utter d*ckheads?? Doesn't that show how it's just some who wreck it for all.

thanks

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Right, just to add my two pence...

I feel that the way this topic has grown, and the way its headed is slightly unfair..

Personally, I'm a Muslim.. I have friends who are Christian, Hindu and Sikh, and many many other religions..

I DISAGREE with the scumbags that deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth, yes, those who u lot were mentioning about. they are wrong, and are nothing short of backwards-single-minded b*stards!!

There are people out there, fighting, risking thier lives, for freedom and justice, and to get rid of ignorance and to pursue a decent world!! These brave young servicemen and servicewomen, deserve a warm welcome, not some silly tw*ts who claim to be Muslim, humiliating them and taking the piss.

However, I feel that the way some people have talked about "Muslims" in this thread, is slightly unacceptable..

Sorry, I'm not picking a fight with anybody, nor would I like to, but just would like to say that these tw*ts you see and hear about on the news, are not the people the Mulsim population in general would like to relate to.. These idiots, do not follow what Islam teaches, having studied my religion for a very long time, I can say this is as a matter of fact, AGAINST prophetic traditions!!

These b*stards have nothing better to do, and unfortunately all Muslims are held resposnsible!!

I actually don't blame y'all for saying what u said, because I'd say the same thing if I was in your position.. The only people to blame are the small minority, who seem to think that they can disrupt our lives!!!

Hope this message doesn't offend, I have tried to be as honest as possible, and wanted to get my point across to you all.. Please feel free to comment, but please do not offend Muslims as a whole. I know, some are twats, and do not deserve to be called human, but I assure you, not all of us are like that. Im sure that many of you have come across Muslims in your day-to-day lives, do they seem like utter d*ckheads?? Doesn't that show how it's just some who wreck it for all.

thanks

It doesnt offend - but i dont agree that its unfair - because nowhere in this thread does anyone say all Muslims are responsible.

The posters ALL say that these scumbags who did this are Muslims - which they are

Had there been any inclination that this was tarring all Muslims with the same brush then i would have been the first to jump on it - I am of Muslim descent - hell i even have a Muslim maiden name - but i dont offend easily.

Many Muslims are peaceful people and not all of them are terrorists who want to kill people and who stand waving placards against our soldiers - but those that did are Muslim, and they are the scum of the earth.

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Right, just to add my two pence...

I feel that the way this topic has grown,

I always accepted that it would, but to be honest, I'm supprised of the level of restrain in the replies. It doesn't reflect what I have heard out and about. My conclusion is that as a whole, the guys on here are still showing a great deal of respect to others - or that the laws in this country allow ony free speach that doesn't offend anyone. We have a very small muslim community up here, but they do show some unacceptable traits, as I've said earlier, if you see a group acting 'wrong' then you make associations (Huddies and young towrags ??).

However, I feel that the way some people have talked about "Muslims" in this thread, is slightly unacceptable..

Againg, I think there has been a show of restraint - it could have been much much worse. One thing it does show though is the general mood is changing, and that is the dangerous part. We are in real danger of someone taking advantage of this and moving the populus in the wrnog direction. This is why the average normal Muslim must stand up and be counted agains these extremists - it is the only way. I commend you for your stance, and to speak up is your right, but generally there is no voice against this. You cannot make a Goegraphical stanse against an idiealist belief, in 3000 years this has never worked, why does the governments think it will now ?

religions all over the world talk of peace, but the idealogical differences are the very things that will prevent it from happening. on Friday 13th October 1307 the Catholics Church, under an order from the Pope, murdered the Knights Templar, what talk of peace ??

Sorry, I'm not picking a fight with anybody, nor would I like to, but just would like to say that these tw*ts you see and hear about on the news, are not the people the Mulsim population in general would like to relate to.. These idiots, do not follow what Islam teaches, having studied my religion for a very long time, I can say this is as a matter of fact, AGAINST prophetic traditions!!

Again, I commend you, you and the very people you are talking are the key to resolving this. Although I have a slight disagreement in what you say. You will understand this far better than I ever will, but in the same way the Bible is full of flaws, I'm sure the Quran has lost something in translation along the way. And just like the Bible modern explanations can be read in a number of ways, furthermore misquoting text can give different meanings - so the use of the word fact isn't quite right, I don't think. Islam has a different way that text is presented and meaning distributed, those who have studied the Quran gain status Clerics, thier opinions ae then presented as facts - as the extremists work they way up in status so thier teachings reach a wider audience. I'm no expert on this by any stretch, but I understand enough to here what you are saying. To every point there is usually an equally opposing view.

These b*stards have nothing better to do, and unfortunately all Muslims are held resposnsible!!!!

Human nature, It's like that - and that's how it is.

Hope this message doesn't offend,

Not at all, I think it's always good to have arguments from all sides, maybe that is part of the problem? The spiritual leaders are just not public enough in thier condemnation of the very small minority who grab the headlines. I would think many people have the oppinion 'if you are not with us, then you are against us'.

Personally, I would like to see all religion gone. I'm not sure why a Bishop has any right to make descisions on the laws of this land, I'm not sure where thier life experiences come from and what they can actually bring to the running of a country. Muslim, Catholic, C of E - makes no difference to me, you cannot disprove faith, as you cannot prove it, that is why you cannot argue it......

I think the real gripe I was having at the start of the thread is that the Police did nothing - why ? they ahd the power to...

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Would like to apologise, an open apology to all, if my previous message was slightly negative :unsure:

I sort of skim read it all :closedeyes: , and wanted to post up a reply in the heat of the moment.. :blush:

Many Muslims are peaceful people and not all of them are terrorists who want to kill people and who stand waving placards against our soldiers - but those that did are Muslim, and they are the scum of the earth.

I totally agree with that!!

Also would like to point out the fact that if they were members of any other religion, and in a Muslim country, i.e. Muslim laws in place; imagine what the authorities would put them thru if they had treated that country's troops in a smililar manner!!!

I think the real gripe I was having at the start of the thread is that the Police did nothing - why ? they ahd the power to...

Also would like to share my point on this! The police, WHY THE F*** didnt they take any action??!!

This is just an utter pisstake, as it's these induviduals who hate the country and treat the servicemen/servicewomen like crap, then what will they move on to next?? It's these individuals who NEED a lesson taught!! If they can do this in the open, with police around them, imagine what they may be doing behind closed doors! If it were up to me, I'd have all the Mulsims in the UK to unite, and elimiate these extremists, who I believe are not worth the title Muslim.. Not sure if anybody has come across this, but the the Word Muslim, is derived from "Islam" literally meaning "Peace".. Where the hell is the "peace" part of it gone with these kn*bs??!! The Police should trace these people down, and the leader of the group, and follow thier EVERY single step!! Now that what I call fair policing!! Somebody acts like a twat, they should be dealt with!!

Slightly off topic, but in my two years of driving cars, i have been stopped 13 times by police, just for the routine check..

People tell me to make a complaint!

"Its cos ure asain!!"

"Its cos ure a muslim!"

"Its cos of the beard!!"

Ive heard them all!

Do I want to complain?

Did I even feel offended that they stopped me?

Do i blame them for stopping me??

Simply, NO! because I dont blame the police for doing their job, policing.. We normal Muslims take the grunt for the minority of them dicks out there!!

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Would like to apologise, an open apology to all, if my previous message was slightly negative :unsure:

I sort of skim read it all :closedeyes: , and wanted to post up a reply in the heat of the moment.. :blush:

No need for an apology whatsoever ;)

Also would like to point out the fact that if they were members of any other religion, and in a Muslim country, i.e. Muslim laws in place; imagine what the authorities would put them thru if they had treated that country's troops in a smililar manner!!!

Also would like to share my point on this! The police, WHY THE F*** didnt they take any action??!!

This is just an utter pisstake, as it's these induviduals who hate the country and treat the servicemen/servicewomen like crap, then what will they move on to next?? It's these individuals who NEED a lesson taught!! If they can do this in the open, with police around them, imagine what they may be doing behind closed doors! If it were up to me, I'd have all the Mulsims in the UK to unite, and elimiate these extremists, who I believe are not worth the title Muslim.. Not sure if anybody has come across this, but the the Word Muslim, is derived from "Islam" literally meaning "Peace".. Where the hell is the "peace" part of it gone with these kn*bs??!! The Police should trace these people down, and the leader of the group, and follow thier EVERY single step!! Now that what I call fair policing!! Somebody acts like a twat, they should be dealt with!!

Slightly off topic, but in my two years of driving cars, i have been stopped 13 times by police, just for the routine check..

People tell me to make a complaint!

"Its cos ure asain!!"

"Its cos ure a muslim!"

"Its cos of the beard!!"

Ive heard them all!

Do I want to complain?

Did I even feel offended that they stopped me?

Do i blame them for stopping me??

Simply, NO! because I dont blame the police for doing their job, policing.. We normal Muslims take the grunt for the minority of them dicks out there!!

And i totally agree with that - well 'cept the keep getting stopped bit - my god i bet you're on first name terms witht he local traffic bods near you now arent you? Its a bit much!

Are you fairly young and do you drive a powsh car though? That might the reason?

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No need for an apology whatsoever ;)

I'll second that.

And i totally agree with that - well 'cept the keep getting stopped bit - my god i bet you're on first name terms witht he local traffic bods near you now arent you? Its a bit much!

I work quite a bit down in the smoke, and I've been stopped 3 times on the street in the last year to have my bag searched. Not because they suspect anything, but to ensure the statistics are reflected as fair! I even have to complete a quetionaire to state my Colour, Ethinic background , Race, Religion. I've no idea what it's got to do with policing. I must confess that I have changed my Race, Religion and Ethinic backgrounds a couple of times, just to keep them guessing!

The face on a PCSO (the ones that follow the real copper around, pretending) when I told him I was a Black, Chinese Catholic........

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my god i bet you're on first name terms witht he local traffic bods near you now arent you? Its a bit much!

well, not many local traffic bods here stick around! its like, they around one day, and u dont see them again..

I spent a while up in nuneaton (down, for u lot even further up ;) ) and there police officers were local, i.e. you could get to know them and u would see them every so often, but here in london, i dont think ive ever had to deal with the same police officer twice!! :o

AAMOF, i never thought of it that way!!

Are you fairly young and do you drive a powsh car though? That might the reason?

ermm, 20 now, had a vauxhall astra mk3 as a first (5-ish months after i turned 17), that lasted a year, then i got a suzuki x-90!! n i know, ppl hate it, but then some love it.. i fell in love at first sight!! got bored of that, and contemplated..

contemplated real hard!!! and got a YBR125!! :D biker now, and aint ever looking back!! :D

NOTE TO SELF: :offtopic:

:huh:

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I Have family fighting out in Afgan at th mo. If they come back to that id be tacken away by police :rolleyes:

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The Uncomfortable Definition of an Infidel .

Allah or the Lord Jesus Christ? The Muslim religion is by far the

fastest growing religion in the UK.

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for

maintaining my prison security clearance. During the training session

there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman

Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their

beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The

Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a

video.

After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams

and

clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the

infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a

command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven.

If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation,

he replied, 'Non-believers!'

I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers

of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith

so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command

to that of 'a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in

the cookie jar.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope

Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.

Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee

them a place in heaven

The Imam was speechless!

I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your 'friend' when

you

and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me

ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to

kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to

love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with

me?'

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam remained speechless.

Needless to say, the organizers and promoters of the

'Diversification'

training seminar were not happy with this way of dealing with the

Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

Within twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.K. to

elect a government of their choice, complete with sharia law

I think everyone in the U.K. should be required to read this, but with

the Liberal justice system, liberal media and the political

correctness madness, there is no way this will be widely publicised.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts.

John Harrison MBE. MIDSc

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"Most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven".

1/. They can fecking try me and see where they get. Please note, this applies to ALL persons bringing violence toward me, irrespective of religion, race, creed, colour, name, gender or anything else that may be considered negatively discriminatory.

2/. I'd like to know what the exact wording and justification of this Jihad is, before I take up arms here.

I don't believe that it's as clean-cut as "Kill the Infidels". I suspect something has been missed in translation, similar to the Judaic 'unpronouncable name of God' thing.

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'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven.

I feel that I am in a position to correct you, and I would like to point out that some, and not all, clerics feel that a 'holy war' is the solution to the issues faced by the Muslims in the modern era.

Wanted to clarify that the word 'Jihad' literally means 'struggle'. It has been used in the context of a 'holy war' for a VERY long time, and so the meaning has adapted to just that.

However, according to Islamic beliefs, jihad HAS certain rules which must be met - i.e. Islam DOES set out rules for war. Some to mention: women, children and the elderly must NOT be harmed, livestock must NOT be harmed, etc. Now that's a new one, ure thinking.. Well, its there, in the Islamic books, its not nonsense..

In our holy book, the Quran, it DOES mention of people who have been made 'shaheed', i.e. who have died during jihad, and how they are guaranteed paradise/heaven. BUT that again is taken out of context and misinterpreted by a select few! A suicide bomber in no way whatsoever is shaheed! Nor are the ignorant f*ckers who were behind 7/7 or 9/11!! WHY? because they are not taking part in jihad! what they are doing is pure ignorance and human genocide!!

Nowhere does islam teach that! Islam does not teach terrorism and killing innocent civillians. According to the true Islam, Jihad has rules and regulations. It is obvious that these are not being followed in any way.

Needless to say, the organizers and promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with this way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

I totally agree with the way of dealing with this silly c*nt! If he holds that viewpoint, clearly he is not showing the true face of Islam! All people who hold a view like that SHOULD be dealt like that!! Please dont let the few twats amongst the Muslim community fill your minds with a negative image of Muslims. I see you seem to have mentioned "Muslims' beliefs" but would like to point out, that I'm a Muslim, BUT I in no way think that 7/7 or 9/11 were justified! Nor do I feel that I should go around killing all non-believers!!

It's either that the normal (peaceful) Muslims (the majority) are not Muslims, or, the extremists (the minority) are judged, and the whole of Islam is now seen as they portray it, and the (normal) Muslims seem to cease to exist, or just magically turn into terrorists! Its the few who portray this image.. Muslims (normal type - this is getting silly now - normal type and abnormal type :rolleyes: ) do not condone or pardon terrorism, we however condemn it. Its the few extremists who seem to think that this will solve everything..

Im sorry, but I had to get it off me chest :blush:

"All it takes for the bad to prosper, is the good to sit n do nothing"

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OK, personally, I have some issues with the post by Scritty - nothing personal, but some of what you are saying just doesn't hold water. I know of the Security Clearance of which you speak - and I disagree, as well you know why - if indeed you have such clearence.

I feel that I am in a position to correct you, and I would like to point out that some, and not all, clerics feel that a 'holy war' is the solution to the issues faced by the Muslims in the modern era.

Wanted to clarify that the word 'Jihad' literally means 'struggle'. It has been used in the context of a 'holy war' for a VERY long time, and so the meaning has adapted to just that.

However, according to Islamic beliefs, jihad HAS certain rules which must be met - i.e. Islam DOES set out rules for war. Some to mention: women, children and the elderly must NOT be harmed, livestock must NOT be harmed, etc. Now that's a new one, ure thinking.. Well, its there, in the Islamic books, its not nonsense..

In our holy book, the Quran, it DOES mention of people who have been made 'shaheed', i.e. who have died during jihad, and how they are guaranteed paradise/heaven. BUT that again is taken out of context and misinterpreted by a select few! A suicide bomber in no way whatsoever is shaheed! Nor are the ignorant f*ckers who were behind 7/7 or 9/11!! WHY? because they are not taking part in jihad! what they are doing is pure ignorance and human genocide!!

Nowhere does islam teach that! Islam does not teach terrorism and killing innocent civillians. According to the true Islam, Jihad has rules and regulations. It is obvious that these are not being followed in any way.

I totally agree with the way of dealing with this silly c*nt! If he holds that viewpoint, clearly he is not showing the true face of Islam! All people who hold a view like that SHOULD be dealt like that!! Please dont let the few twats amongst the Muslim community fill your minds with a negative image of Muslims. I see you seem to have mentioned "Muslims' beliefs" but would like to point out, that I'm a Muslim, BUT I in no way think that 7/7 or 9/11 were justified! Nor do I feel that I should go around killing all non-believers!!

It's either that the normal (peaceful) Muslims (the majority) are not Muslims, or, the extremists (the minority) are judged, and the whole of Islam is now seen as they portray it, and the (normal) Muslims seem to cease to exist, or just magically turn into terrorists! Its the few who portray this image.. Muslims (normal type - this is getting silly now - normal type and abnormal type :rolleyes: ) do not condone or pardon terrorism, we however condemn it. Its the few extremists who seem to think that this will solve everything..

Im sorry, but I had to get it off me chest :blush:

"All it takes for the bad to prosper, is the good to sit n do nothing"

And from what I have learned about this faith - the above all stands true.

There is alot od mis-quoting of faith, and in all cases it is because someone is trying to get the upper hand, cause some shift in public opinion or just out to cause trouble.

As I have said before, and to stay on topic, my issue is with the Police decided to do nothing, despite having the power to stop these vile individuals from spouting thier bile. Was it due to pressure to be 'seen' to be allowing free expression ??

I'm sorry, but posting some crap about whay one person said and trying to sumise that this is the belief of a large group of the population makes you no better than those who directed a plane into a building containing thousdands of people. This is a discusssion about a lawfull demonstration that really shouldn't have been allowed, if you feel somehow offended by that then I really don't give a crap - if you have some factual input, fine but what you have wrote is incorrect at best.

This is not a "lets bash the muslims" thread.

Mods - perhaps it's time to lock this thread ? It is moving in a direction that trancsends the bounderies ???

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